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Refund not hurting the JSS

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Community Guru
Janean L Member Since: Apr 6, 2016
21 of 35

It may well be that the dispositive criterion is what the client chooses as "reason job ended." 

 

I could speculate that if all three of the following criteria are met, then a fully-refunded contract may not have a negative effect on a JSS:  (1) Client selects "job no longer needed" ; and (2) Client selects high score for "would recommend this freelancer"/hire this freelancer again; and (3) Client provides excellent private feedback.

 

If, however, any single one of the above criteria are not met, a zero-earnings contract may negatively affect a freelancer's JSS. That is to say, these criteria are likely to be necessary IN THEIR ENTIRETY as a group; no single one of the three alone is sufficient to mitigate the negative effect of a zero-earnings contract.**Edited for Community Guidelines**

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Community Guru
Virginia F Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
22 of 35

Janean L wrote:

It may well be that the dispositive criterion is what the client chooses as "reason job ended." 

 

I could speculate that if all three of the following criteria are met, then a fully-refunded contract may not have a negative effect on a JSS:  (1) Client selects "job no longer needed" ; and (2) Client selects high score for "would recommend this freelancer"/hire this freelancer again; and (3) Client provides excellent private feedback.

 

If, however, any single one of the above criteria are not met, a zero-earnings contract may negatively affect a freelancer's JSS. That is to say, these criteria are likely to be necessary IN THEIR ENTIRETY as a group; no single one of the three alone is sufficient to mitigate the negative effect of a zero-earnings contract.**Edited for Community Guidelines**


 

A perfect example of restraint I'm not so sure I'd be able to show - put a gold star on your forehead, Janean.

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Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
23 of 35
Yesaer, do you notice at all that these all say "if the job was completed successfully?" That clearly is not OP's situation--the job was not completed.

 

It is very irresponsible for you to be so categorical about something that could hurt other freelancers when you are obviously having trouble understanding the issue.


 

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Community Guru
Richard W Member Since: Jun 22, 2017
24 of 35

Hi Eric. I'm sure Petra will be along soon to give you the real facts. In the meantime, here's my version based on what she has said in the past.

 

First, it sounds like the client has not released any payment to you and has now closed the contract, so you have received an automatic request to refund the money in escrow.

 

This will result in a nothing-paid contact. Such a contract is automatically bad for your JSS IF the client leaves no feedback. However, if I'm correct in thinking that the client has already closed the contract, he must have left feedback for you. That being the case, I believe it doesn't matter that nothing is paid. What matters is the feedback. And that's a done deal. 

 

There's no point in the client contacting Upwork. But, if he hasn't already submitted feedback and he wants to help you, he can do so by submitting good feedback and selecting the "Job no longer needed" option.

 

You could ask the client to pay you something for the time you've wasted. That would have to be paid as a bonus, since the client can no longer release a milestone payment if he's closed the contract. But there seems little point in disputing the refund request if you haven't already begun work on the milestone.

 

 

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Community Guru
Eric B Member Since: Feb 21, 2017
25 of 35

Richard W wrote:

Hi Eric. I'm sure Petra will be along soon to give you the real facts. In the meantime, here's my version based on what she has said in the past.

 

First, it sounds like the client has not released any payment to you and has now closed the contract, so you have received an automatic request to refund the money in escrow.

 

This will result in a nothing-paid contact. Such a contract is automatically bad for your JSS IF the client leaves no feedback. However, if I'm correct in thinking that the client has already closed the contract, he must have left feedback for you. That being the case, I believe it doesn't matter that nothing is paid. What matters is the feedback. And that's a done deal. 

 

There's no point in the client contacting Upwork. But, if he hasn't already submitted feedback and he wants to help you, he can do so by submitting good feedback and selecting the "Job no longer needed" option.

 

You could ask the client to pay you something for the time you've wasted. That would have to be paid as a bonus, since the client can no longer release a milestone payment if he's closed the contract. But there seems little point in disputing the refund request if you haven't already begun work on the milestone.


Thanks, Richard for such a complete answer!

 

If he pays me the time I wasted, there is no problem anymore as he should pay me all of it, I mean we talk about 50$, nothing more.

 

He didn't close the contract, we've just been talking about it.

 

He thinks like you that giving me a great feedback is enough to have my JSS hurt.

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Ace Contributor
Amrin S Member Since: Jun 23, 2018
26 of 35
No, if your client gives you a 10/10 private feedback, then it will never hurt your JSS in any way, rather it will affect JSS in a positive way.
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Community Guru
Delwar H Member Since: Jan 30, 2015
27 of 35

Eric B wrote:

Hi, 

 

I did some jobs for a client and the last one is no longer needed: he discovered he just didn't needed me anymore, basically because it can do what he needs by himself very easily. 

 

I have to give a refund but as my client said, it's absolutely not my fault and he's ok to contact Upwork to clarify that in order to avoid my JSS hurting. 

 

Is that possible to do that?

 

Thank you.


Hello Eric, 

 

How about keeping a token amount (e.g $5) and refunding the rest? Ask your client to edit the amount while approving milestone. So, you won't have a 'no pay' contract. Contacting support regarding this won't help at all. 

 

Best, 

Delwar 

 

 

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Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
28 of 35

Hi Eric and others,

 

Jobs with no earnings are counted in JSS, either because they were closed or because several months have passed since a payment was received. So while a refund itself doesn't have any effect on JSS, a full refund will make a job a contract with no earnings. That said, if the contract was ended on good terms, any misunderstandings were resolved and feedback was provided accordingly, the job is unlikely to have a negative effect.

 

I'd also like to use this opportunity to remind the participants of this discussion of the Community Guidelines. Please, be respectful toward each other when posting on this boards.

 

Thank you.

~ Valeria
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Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
29 of 35

Valeria, thank you for the reminder about community discussions, and the clarification of the effect of a total refund on JSS. So, if I can recap what you wrote, as of March 2019, the ultimate solution, as someone put it, is that a total refund is unlikely to effect JSS, which is not the same as absolutely no effect.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
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Community Guru
Eric B Member Since: Feb 21, 2017
30 of 35

John K wrote:

Valeria, thank you for the reminder about community discussions, and the clarification of the effect of a total refund on JSS. So, if I can recap what you wrote, as of March 2019, the ultimate solution, as someone put it, is that a total refund is unlikely to effect JSS, which is not the same as absolutely no effect.


Thanks, John: I read it the same way that you do.

That's fine, instead of unfair, it's unlikely unfair. As JSS is a mystery, we'll never know.

 

Well, let's turn that to a positive experience: identify time wasters and get rid of them fast and when they come back, get rid of them even faster.

 

 

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