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Removing review after winning arbitrage

alexidsa
Ace Contributor

I had a client who unfairly did not pay for my work (funds were in escrow) and left a negative review (again, unfairly), so I went to arbitrage (the real arbitrage when you pay about $300 for the proceedings) and just received a message saying I've won it. My questions is whether it is possible to remove a review if I won the arbitrage? It seems like an obvious next step (basically, I've proven the review was wrong) but I don't see any mechanism how I could do it (assuming I don't have a top-rated perk and I don't want to refund all the money paid to remove a public review)

67 REPLIES 67

This blog is no different than any other Alexander - lots of people with lots of opinions, only some of which are useful or even relevant. Smarmy and condescending is just the way some people approach life.

 

The primary goal of the feedback system on Upwork is not meant to be "fair." Being "fair" would require more hands-on activity on Upwork's end, and Upwork isn't looking to create more expenses considering the company is reporting big losses to its shareholders.

 

At the vary least, Upwork could add a tally on each client's and freelancre profile showing how many projects they've been involved in that involved a refund request enforced/imposed by Upwork and how often the client or freelancer has been involved in arbitration, canceled projects, etc. It might happen for freelancers, but it's hard to imagine Upwork would introduce any information that reflects badly on clients or reduces freelancers' willingness to work with them. It just wouldn't be good business. 


Alexander S wrote:

I yet to see Upwork's support staff publicly saying in a thread like this they don't remove a review even if you won an external arbitrage which legally approves misbehaviour on the client's side


A.R.B.I.T.R.A.T.I.O.N

Not "arbitrage"

 

Leave it be. Feedback is not removed just because you won arbitration.

It's been confirmed again and again, but nobody will go through a few tens of thousands of posts for you.

You got paid.

The End.

I've gone through hundreds of posts about removing reviews and none of them was about a case like this (I'm open to be corrected). And to be clear, I'm not talking about just winning arbitration at Upwork, I'm talking about winning an external arbitration which is a legal procedure. Anyway, at this point I'll just wait for the feedback from Upwork support team


Alexander S wrote:

I've gone through hundreds of posts about removing reviews and none of them was about a case like this (I'm open to be corrected). And to be clear, I'm not talking about just winning arbitration at Upwork, I'm talking about winning an external arbitration which is a legal procedure. Anyway, at this point I'll just wait for the feedback from Upwork support team


Arbitration is always with a third-party, because Upwork is the escrow agent and can't make a binding decision. "Unfair" is not a reason to get your feedback removed. I've been through it too. You will be fine I assure you.

tlbp
Community Guru

Alexander S wrote:

I've gone through hundreds of posts about removing reviews and none of them was about a case like this (I'm open to be corrected). And to be clear, I'm not talking about just winning arbitration at Upwork, I'm talking about winning an external arbitration which is a legal procedure. Anyway, at this point I'll just wait for the feedback from Upwork support team


That's why Petra was clarifying your spelling. What you did before the paid arbitration was a mediation. Arbitrage is a completely different term. It does become confusing if the terms are all mixed (I have mixed mediation and arbitration before.)  In your case, if you were searching for arbitrage instead of arbitration, your results would not uncover the answer you were seeking. 

 

 

alexidsa
Ace Contributor

It gets more and more interesting... While I'd been waiting till Upwork receive arbitration results from AAA, I've received a email saying the client asked his bank for a refund (after a lost arbitration) and the funds will be withdrawn from my account


Alexander S wrote:

It gets more and more interesting... While I'd been waiting till Upwork receive arbitration results from AAA, I've received a email saying the client asked his bank for a refund (after a lost arbitration) and the funds will be withdrawn from my account


ok, this is where you get my sympathy and mutual rage. 


Alexander S wrote:

It gets more and more interesting... While I'd been waiting till Upwork receive arbitration results from AAA, I've received a email saying the client asked his bank for a refund (after a lost arbitration) and the funds will be withdrawn from my account


A chargeback.

That is fraudulent on the side of the client as they had previously agreed to be legally bound by the outcome of the arbitration.

So now you are out the money AND the arbitration fee.

I'd lean VERY hard on Upwork to fight the chargeback an that basis  (which is mostly not possible but in this case it may be)

 

I bet the client also charged back the fee for the arbitration... Which country is the client in?

 

 

I'm not sure if he crarged back the arbitration fee. He's from the US

Alexander,

 

One of our agents just provided an update on your ticket about both, the arbitration and the chargeback. They will continue providing any new information to you via the ticket and you can also reply back to the ticket with any questions you may have.

 

Additionally, feel free to check this post for more information about Upwork feedback system and options users have if they disagree with feedback.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Could you please be more specific about the review? At this point do I have any option to remove it? Here's my take on it:

 

0. I have a pretty good track record on Upwork to begin with

1. I've received a negative review that was saying my communication was poor

2. I've gone through the legal arbitration proving it was not the case and it was actually the client who ignored my messages for weeks and then asked for a refund when the job was done

3. After losing the arbitration the client doubles down on his dishonesty by charging back

 

As I understand from the responses above, even under these very clear conditions, the review will not be removed, right? If we go through all the viral posts on Medium bashing Upwork (which cost Upwork millions in reputation losses), we will see the same root problem again and again: lack of individual approach to freelancers and particular cases. Why not to address this issue, especially when the case is so obvious?

Hi Alexander, 


As Valeria noted, you may ask questions on the your ticket so that the team handling this case can get back to you with more information. I would recommend that you continue communicating with the team as they are better equipped to answer your questions about the dispute, and the arbitration process. Thank you for your understanding.


~ Avery
Upwork
tlbp
Community Guru

If you have a Top Rated perk, you can remove the feedback using that perk. Otherwise, no. The client may be a scammer and a jerk, but they still get to leave a review.

 

Did you respond to the review? When I had a bad client who asked for a refund and gave me a low rating, I responded by indicating that the client asked for work beyond the scope and attempted to avoid paying me. I seriously doubt if anyone will take his review of me seriously knowing that he tried to avoid paying for the work. It hasn't hurt my ability to land new gigs. 

 

 

alexidsa
Ace Contributor

I've responded to the review, though it would be nice to be able to update it after an arbitration win and a chargeback fraud. You're completely right about this review not influencing the ability to get new clients, I can't complain but a perfectionist inside me is a little angry 🙂

 

The biggest flaw in the system, in my opinion, is an almost week long lag between the arbitration finish by AAA and the moment this information is processed by Upwork. It should happen automatically, I doubt this client is the first one who was "smart" enough to chargeback.

petra_r
Community Guru

Tonya P wrote:

If you have a Top Rated perk, you can remove the feedback using that perk. Otherwise, no. The client may be a scammer and a jerk, but they still get to leave a review.


No need. The chargeback will turn it into a "Nothing Paid" contract so the contract should vanish from the profile anyway, and the client will have been suspended for the chargeback so there will be no impact on the JSS because contract from cliets who are kicked off for ToS violations are excluded from the JSS.

As I understand in this scenario I will not get paid, right?

tlbp
Community Guru

Petra R wrote:

Tonya P wrote:

If you have a Top Rated perk, you can remove the feedback using that perk. Otherwise, no. The client may be a scammer and a jerk, but they still get to leave a review.


No need. The chargeback will turn it into a "Nothing Paid" contract so the contract should vanish from the profile anyway, and the client will have been suspended for the chargeback so there will be no impact on the JSS because contract from cliets who are kicked off for ToS violations are excluded from the JSS.


I thought that Upwork might actually challenge the chargeback since it is fraudulent. 🙄

petra_r
Community Guru

Tonya P wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Tonya P wrote:

If you have a Top Rated perk, you can remove the feedback using that perk. Otherwise, no. The client may be a scammer and a jerk, but they still get to leave a review.


No need. The chargeback will turn it into a "Nothing Paid" contract so the contract should vanish from the profile anyway, and the client will have been suspended for the chargeback so there will be no impact on the JSS because contract from cliets who are kicked off for ToS violations are excluded from the JSS.


I thought that Upwork might actually challenge the chargeback since it is fraudulent. 🙄


Good point.

They absolutely should, unless the card holder is now claiming the card was used without their knowledge or consent. I was thinking worst case scenario as most of the time attempts to defend a chargeback are not successful which makes it such a nasty stunt to pull.

 

 


Jennifer M wrote:

ARBITRATION

not arbitrage


Thank you Jennifer. I was dying inside Robot Frustrated

One more nice touch: withdrawals are blocked on my account, so I can not withdraw money I made from other contracts. I would kinda understand if Upwork blocked the amount I was "supposed" to return due to a charge back (it's just $400) but blocking my ability to withdraw money in general seems to be too much, after all it's my major source of income. I was supposed to get a response on the ticket within two days but the deadline is passed. This situation gets more and more comical (I get punished more and more for others' faults), there's just one more step left to reach the peak of absurdity: ban my account 🙂


Alexander S wrote:

One more nice touch: withdrawals are blocked on my account, so I can not withdraw money I made from other contracts. I would kinda understand if Upwork blocked the amount I was "supposed" to return due to a charge back (it's just $400) but blocking my ability to withdraw money in general seems to be too much, after all it's my major source of income. I was supposed to get a response on the ticket within two days but the deadline is passed. This situation gets more and more comical (I get punished more and more for others' faults), there's just one more step left to reach the peak of absurdity: ban my account 🙂


I feel you brah and this situation is nasty and I can't say what I want about it on here. 

 

When you get a chargeback (or Upwork takes money that has already been paid out), it comes out of your "Pending" money. If the chargeback is more than what you have in Pending, the amount in review will be used to pay off the negative balance. You basically have to work to pay off the balance.

 

I'm just a freelancer that can share your rage and don't blame you for being angry, but this is the way it is.

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