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SOS Refund takes without approval !

abricotdesign
Active Member
Paillieux C Member Since: May 7, 2019
1 of 14
Hello dear upworker !

I have a very big problem :
I start a mission, hourly paid. I work 3hours for a draft. I make it, a clean and nice draft for an unclear pitch, incoherent brief, not clear instructions but I made my best. I register my hours and my client close the job very happy of the communication and give me a good review before to see my work. Well. After she review it she was very rude tell me that’s not okay, not good job etc I was so surprise and try to deal and communicate but she never accept to communicate more or try to fix the misunderstanding.
After that she ask for a total refund, I was so shocked.

I don’t touch anything wait to be paid. On the page of the refund, not a button “refuse” or anything so I touched nothing.
A week later I wait to touch my money of all missions and UPWORK send me a message like “Thanks, you give a refund to Xxx”
I never accept this refund, I consider that 3hours worked are 3 hours paided even she didn’t likes.

I really don’t understand why Upwork take my money without ask my authorization!
I’m upset and I feel stole by the plateforme I choose to work as freelancer !
Do you know why and what to do ?

I need help 🙏🏻
Thanks a lot !
petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
2 of 14

Paillieux C wrote:
. I register my hours and my client close the job very happy of the communication and give me a good review before to see my work. Well. After she review it she was very rude tell me that’s not okay, not good job etc I was so surprise and try to deal and communicate but she never accept to communicate more or try to fix the misunderstanding.
After that she ask for a total refund, I was so shocked.

I don’t touch anything wait to be paid. On the page of the refund, not a button “refuse” or anything so I touched nothing.

I never accept this refund, I consider that 3hours worked are 3 hours paided even she didn’t likes.

I really don’t understand why Upwork take my money without ask my authorization!
I’m upset and I feel stole by the plateforme I choose to work as freelancer !


Did you use the tracker to log your time, with meaningful work memos to describe what you were working on and adequate activity levels?

 

kat303
Community Guru
Kathy T Member Since: Jul 17, 2015
3 of 14

On hourly jobs/contracts you are paid for the Hours you worked. Upwork provides payment protection for hourly contracts ONlY if you follow the procedures. 

1. download, install and use Tracker to record your hours automatically

2. Write notes to describe what you are doing on the screen shots Tracker takes

3. Have reasonable keystroke activity

If something goes wrong, - there's a problem with the clients account, or with the job, Upwork will pay you as long as you follow those 3 things.

 

If you enter manual hours, have screenshots that show you were reading/sending personal email, surfing the internet, watching Youtube videos, playing games, showing no keystoke activity or abmormal high activity or doing anything else besides working on the clients job, those hours will not be covered and the client can dispute those hours and doesn't have to pay for them. 

 

It sounds like you entered manual hours and therefore the client doesn't have to pay for manual hours.

abricotdesign
Active Member
Paillieux C Member Since: May 7, 2019
4 of 14

Hello Kathy, 

Thank's to take time to answer but :

are you seriously saying that clients doesn't have to paid for manual hours ? 

Really ? Where are in a world where trust is not a value anymore and good result are not enought ? 

In fact with this client we agree for three hours working, I say "100$ are good for you" she agree because she didn't know how to process with fixed price project. I accept to manually enter the price. Maybe it's a shame to trust people.

Anyway, even if I enter manually my time because Upwork allow to manually enter your time (so why don't do it and install an app) I don't consider that I don't deserve to be paid, work is work, I provide a PDF, files that she can use as she want after, without paying ? Is that the Upwork working ? 

I'm really desappointing of realizing that Upwork don't protect the freelancers and allow client to have work and pay nothing. 

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
5 of 14

Paillieux C wrote:

 

are you seriously saying that clients doesn't have to paid for manual hours ? 

 


When you enter manual time you are warned that by doing so, you forego any and all protection.

Hourly contracts are only "safe" when you track your hours.

 

The vast majority of clients happily pay for their freelancers' work, but manual time is never totally "safe" and you are told that.

 

I use manual time as well, and have never not been paid, but it is worth being very aware of the fact that manual time is not protected.

 

bstojadinovic
Moderator
Bojan S Moderator Member Since: Mar 9, 2018
6 of 14

Hi Paillieux,

 

We understand your frustration with this and we can see that you're communicating with our team on your ticket. As our team has already shared with you, our Hourly Payment Protection does not cover manual time. To learn more about how you're protected on hourly contracts check out this guide. If you have any additional questions feel free to post them on your ticket, when everything is in one place we can be more efficient in assisting you. And if you have any questions you can always reach out to us here and we will advise you accordingly.

 

Thank you.

~ Bojan
Upwork
wlyonsatl
Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
7 of 14

This is a mystery if this was an hourly project with a valid contract, you used the TimeTracker to track all of your time worked on this project and you included in each TimeTracker session your notation of what you were working on.

 

As far as I know, Upwork if the above criteria are met Upwork doesn't get involved in judging whether a refund should be made based on the "quality" of work performed under hourly contracts.

 

If this was a fixed price project you agreed would take about 3 hours, that may be a different story.

 

 

yitwail
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
8 of 14

Paillieux, I'm sorry this happened to you but it states in a lot of places on the upwork site that manually entered time is not guaranteed. For instance, it says here ---

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068488-Add-Manual-Time

--- Manual time does not qualify for Hourly Payment Protection.

 

And some clients take advantage of that. It's why the only time I enter manual time is if I forget to use time tracker, or I'm doing something away from the computer, like talking on the phone.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
9 of 14

Paillieux:

Don't be so hard on yourself.

 

LOTS of new freelancers make the same mistake.

They learn their lesson and move on with greater knowledge and confidence.

 

It's like the chess player who is surprised by castling because she didn't even know that was a thing. But now she knows, and she can watch out for it in her next game.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
10 of 14

Preston H wrote:

Paillieux:

Don't be so hard on yourself.

 


Where is she "hard on herself?"

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