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ga_freelancing
Community Member

Scam Alert

I had interviews with two companies in the past three days and things went smoothly until the very end regarding finances. Both companies emailed me a check (one for $4200 and the other $1700) and according to their written instructions wanted me to deposit their check into my bank using the mobile bank app. I called my bank to find out whether I have this feature and they said that I do but that it is not activated.  They would have to activate the feature but it won't happen until Wednesday of the following week, which is when the bank does maintenance on the web site. I explain all this to both interviewers but they each insisted that I have to follow the instructions and to have the check deposited using the mobile banking app. The discussions, unfortunately, went on for too long, and they simply didn't seem to be understanding that something like this is beyond my control. They kept pestering me about this issue and I simply told him that I could not work with anyone who pesters a potential employee.  What to do in this case?  I'm sure there are many who've experienced similar instances.

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
mwiggenhorn
Community Member

This is a scam that has been going on for years.  For one thing, accepting payment off the platform in the form of a check or anything else is strictly against the Terms of Service and could get you permanently banned from Upwork.  Think about it - who would send a check to an unknown entity on the internet?  They will collect on the check, the check will bounce and you will be left holding the bag.  (One freelancer was actually met at the bank by law enforcement when trying to cash such a bogus check.)

 

Report the job as a scam, forget about it and read the Terms of Service from top to bottom before you get in trouble.

View solution in original post

39 REPLIES 39
mwiggenhorn
Community Member

This is a scam that has been going on for years.  For one thing, accepting payment off the platform in the form of a check or anything else is strictly against the Terms of Service and could get you permanently banned from Upwork.  Think about it - who would send a check to an unknown entity on the internet?  They will collect on the check, the check will bounce and you will be left holding the bag.  (One freelancer was actually met at the bank by law enforcement when trying to cash such a bogus check.)

 

Report the job as a scam, forget about it and read the Terms of Service from top to bottom before you get in trouble.

prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "What to do in this case?"

 

Be grateful that you didn't have this feature enabled on your bank account already. This saved you from losing thousands of dollars, or your bank account, or both.

JoanneP
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Philip,

 

If a job or invitation looks suspicious or inappropriate, you can flag it using the flagging option found on every job post. You can read more on this help article and also, please check out Tips to avoid questionable jobs. You can also send me a PM with the link to this job post including a screenshot, and I will share it with our team. Thank you!

~ Joanne
Upwork

Philip you are not allowed to share your Email or contact details with Clients before establishing an official Contract on Upwork. You violated two imp TOS here!

How can I flag as potentially suspicious the job posting that is closed?

I believe the first listed job posting may be suspicious as related to the original post I submitted yesterday. I am still rather dubious regarding the whole communication I had yesterday.  After digging around I discover that emailed checks which I received from the company cannot be emailed because that would mean that the check is a copy and not the original.  I will need the original check from the company to deposit the check to my bank. My bank may in all likelihood view this as potential fraud if I try to deposit an emailed/camera picture copy of a check using my mobile bank app.  I could essentially be committing a form of counterfeiting, which is a potential felony.  This point goes directly against my personal values and one that I will not violate.  Apparently, this may be a potential scam that has been going on for years.  For one thing, accepting payment off the platform (Upwork) in the form of a check or anything else may be against the Terms of Service and it could get me permanently banned from Upwork.  I don't want that to happen.  What shall I do?

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


Philip O wrote:

I believe the first listed job posting may be suspicious as related to the original post I submitted yesterday. I am still rather dubious regarding the whole communication I had yesterday.  After digging around I discover that emailed checks which I received from the company cannot be emailed because that would mean that the check is a copy and not the original.  I will need the original check from the company to deposit the check to my bank. My bank may in all likelihood view this as potential fraud if I try to deposit an emailed/camera picture copy of a check using my mobile bank app.  I could essentially be committing a form of counterfeiting, which is a potential felony.  This point goes directly against my personal values and one that I will not violate.  Apparently, this may be a potential scam that has been going on for years.  For one thing, accepting payment off the platform (Upwork) in the form of a check or anything else may be is against the Terms of Service and it could get me permanently banned from Upwork.  I don't want that to happen.  What shall I do?


See my correction in your post.

What you do is: every time a conversation with a potential client goes sideways (they want to communicate outside of upwork, offer to send payment outside of upwork), end the conversation immediately and open the job posting, if that's still possible, and click "flag as inappropriate". 

If you encounter a very new client that is maybe unaware of upworks terms of service, kindly explain to them what is allowed or not. If they are unwilling to listen, stop communicating with them. 

As your profile is still there, you escaped the wrath of upwork so far, so now would be a good time to read up on everything. 

 

Thank you.
martina_plaschka
Community Member

Thank your lucky stars that upwork is not pestering you now about suspending your profile. You should have known that accepting payment outside of upwork is strictly forbidden (they just love to collect their fees and really dislike circumventers) by reading the terms of service and/or (sorry!) simply employing common sense about the probability that strangers send you money to buy equipment that you should already have to perform your work.

Of course they pestered you. I don't know what their success rate is, but they need to string along A LOT of people to get them to the point of check-cashing, so when you're that close to the finish line! - you get it. 

Oh and congrats on not losing 5900 $, even if you arrived there by not the best route. It'll maybe teach the scammers to be more patient and friendly. 

 

 

"maybe teach the scammers to be more patient and friendly."

hahaha.. enjoyed this sentence.

gilbert-phyllis
Community Member

In addition to reading and understanding the ToS, you need to understand this is not a jobs board, it's a freelance marketplace. The people seeking help with projects are clients, not employers. You are a freelancer, aka a small business owner, not an employee. These are critically important distinctions.

 

editorfreelancer
Community Member

If the job is posted under proofreading, how does cashing a stranger's check constitute proofreading? That's tip-off #1. This scam has been going on for decades off Upwork. I'm kind of surprised people still aren't aware of it, like the Nigerian prince and 'pull my finger.'


Tracey H wrote:

If the job is posted under proofreading, how does cashing a stranger's check constitute proofreading? That's tip-off #1. This scam has been going on for decades off Upwork. I'm kind of surprised people still aren't aware of it, like the Nigerian prince and 'pull my finger.'


The check cashing has nothing to do with the task, they will try to convince the new freelancer that this is an acceptable payment method. Since most freelancers, even newbies, know that this is not allowed, the scammers will pretend to buy equipment for you, which I can see could lead to doubts as in: but upwork will not get a fee if somebody buys me equipment, right? 

They target mainly US based new freelancers, because the USA is so charmingly old-fashioned to still use checks.... 

a_lipsey
Community Member


Philip O wrote:

I have been interviewed for a proofreader position and ran into issues regarding financial aspects.  In effect, everything went well, until the company said that I need financial/accounting software, which can be expensive.  The company emailed me a check which was a bit blurry and instructed me to deposit it into my bank using my mobile banking app.  This was a RED FLAG.  After interacting with the interviewer, I decided to quit and walked away, only to have the company admin person contact me to re-consider.  Apparently the interviewer was chastised and to continue the interviewer wanted me to undergo a test to determine if I was able to complete certain tasks. I basically had to log on to Upwork and sign-up using names the interviewer supplied and through complete various steps of posting a job.  I went through these steps and captured screenshots of completed work.  The interviewer said I did well (of course).  Then the issue of the check was brought up.  The company wants to send another check next week for me to deposit to my bank using the bank's mobile app.  All of this is too phishy and borders on a scam.  I am at this point ready and willing to walk away.  I am not interfested in violating any ToS hurting my chances of finding freelance work.  It seems Upwork has a problem which is very difficult to deal with.  Any suggestions?


The problem is you violating TOS all throughout this  story you mention above. First you are communicating off platform before a contract has been offered through Upwork. Then you log in using someone else's credentials to post a job? Also against TOS.  Then you are agreeing to accept payments outside of Upwork. 

 

The problem is not Upwork's, it is yours for failing to read the TOS completely and failing to read the many how-tos that instruct you on how to avoid these situations. My suggestion is you read the forums and read all the article in the help section as well as a thorough read of the TOS, because Upwork has given you plenty of information to protect yourself, and you seem willfully ignorant about not reviewing these things and making sure you know the rules before using this site. How is it Upwork's problem if you don't read the TOS and their instructions? They can't micromanage you to do your due diligence, that's on you. 

I would also argue that Upwork can be doing a better job to filter out scammers on this website.  How horrible for them to let this happen and for everyone to solely blame the freelancers.  

Upwork publishes a plethora of information on how freelancers can protect themselves from scams. They hardly "let this happen". We are not solely blaming the freelancer, but when freelancers willfully do not read the very easily accessible starting out articles that tell them how to avoid scams and be careful, how is that Upwork's fault? Rather, new freelancers need to take responsibility for their businesses and understand how the tools they subscribe to, like Upwork, work. Would you blame your bank if you gave out your pin number because you failed to read the sentence that says "do not share this pin number with other people."? 

 

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/360049608113-Sharing-Information-on-Upwork

 

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211067668-Staying-Safe-on-Upwork

 

And there's loads more. 

Upwork could still be doing a better job protecting freelancers.  Seems like a common issue.  Not a good look to have a reputation that your website scams people constantly.  I have to prove my identity and be verified to be a freelancer.  Seems much easier to become a scammy client. 


Katie A wrote:

Upwork could still be doing a better job protecting freelancers.  Seems like a common issue.  Not a good look to have a reputation that your website scams people constantly.  I have to prove my identity and be verified to be a freelancer.  Seems much easier to become a scammy client. 


Katie, there's a thread in the New to Upwork section about suggetions for improvements to freelancer onboarding. I think if you share your insight about this situation there, so they can better educate and protect freelancers from scams and your particular situation, it would at least turn a negative into a positive. 


Katie A wrote:

Upwork could still be doing a better job protecting freelancers.  Seems like a common issue.  Not a good look to have a reputation that your website scams people constantly.  I have to prove my identity and be verified to be a freelancer.  Seems much easier to become a scammy client. 


For scams like the one discussed in this thread, there are no victims, only volunteers. Freelancers need to protect themselves from that kind of fraud. I don't want the fees I pay to Upwork (which I don't begrudge, I get a good ROI) being spent to coddle FLs who refuse to take responsibility for operating their own business in a competent and diligent manner. Yes, in this instance I'm "blaming the FL" because the ones who wander around the platform making themselves vulnerable to scammers create negative impacts for everybody and deserve some blame for it.

 

That's terrible to call them volunteers instead of victims. 


Katie A wrote:

That's terrible to call them volunteers instead of victims. 


What do you call someone who walks around in crowded public places with their purse gaping open? Who parks their car on a city street overnight with an expensive laptop clearly visible on the front seat? Who feeds their pets outdoors and then complains when coyotes come in their yard? Who doesn't use security software on their computer? I call them irresponsible people who make life more complicated and expensive for the rest of us.

re: "That's terrible to call them volunteers instead of victims."

 

Freelancers who get involved in scams are "participants."

 

It is not helpful to call them "victims." It is better to empower them to avoid bad things like this. These freelancers have the power. They need to learn how to use their power.

Are all Community Gurus like this? Blame the victim.  Everything is the freelancer's fault.  Freelancer's deserve to have their money stolen. Upwork is the Lord and Savior.  The term of service are the Bible.  

 

You don't want to empower anybody.  Freelancer's deserve better than this. These forums are a travesty. 


Katie A wrote:

Are all Community Gurus like this? Blame the victim.  Everything is the freelancer's fault.  Freelancer's deserve to have their money stolen. Upwork is the Lord and Savior.  The term of service are the Bible.  

 

You don't want to empower anybody.  Freelancer's deserve better than this. These forums are a travesty. 


I like the forum. It provides a lot of free entertainment. And yes, a certain snarkiness is expected from a guru, otherwise nobody would pay us the big bucks. 


Martina P wrote:

Katie A wrote:

Are all Community Gurus like this? Blame the victim.  Everything is the freelancer's fault.  Freelancer's deserve to have their money stolen. Upwork is the Lord and Savior.  The term of service are the Bible.  

 

You don't want to empower anybody.  Freelancer's deserve better than this. These forums are a travesty. 


I like the forum. It provides a lot of free entertainment. And yes, a certain snarkiness is expected from a guru, otherwise nobody would pay us the big bucks. 


Someone put a chargeback on my guru payment this week, so I'm SOL. 

gilbert-phyllis
Community Member


Philip O wrote:

I have been interviewed for a proofreader position and ran into issues regarding financial aspects.  In effect, everything went well, until the company said that I need financial/accounting software, which can be expensive.  The company emailed me a check which was a bit blurry and instructed me to deposit it into my bank using my mobile banking app.  This was a RED FLAG.  After interacting with the interviewer, I decided to quit and walked away, only to have the company admin person contact me to re-consider.  Apparently the interviewer was chastised and to continue the interviewer wanted me to undergo a test to determine if I was able to complete certain tasks. I basically had to log on to Upwork and sign-up using names the interviewer supplied and through complete various steps of posting a job.  I went through these steps and captured screenshots of completed work.  The interviewer said I did well (of course).  Then the issue of the check was brought up.  The company wants to send another check next week for me to deposit to my bank using the bank's mobile app.  All of this is too phishy and borders on a scam.  I am at this point ready and willing to walk away.  I am not interfested in violating any ToS hurting my chances of finding freelance work.  It seems Upwork has a problem which is very difficult to deal with.  Any suggestions?


What part of the hoops they had you jump through has anything remotely to do with proofreading?

 

Upwork does have a problem in that it attracts people like you who refuse to take responsibility for reading and understanding the Terms of Service and the reams of information available to help you learn to work safely on the platform. There wouldn't be so many scammers here if there weren't so many willing victims. Read the responses you got yesterday and follow the advice.

 

martina_plaschka
Community Member


Philip O wrote:

I have been interviewed for a proofreader position and ran into issues regarding financial aspects.  In effect, everything went well, until the company said that I need financial/accounting software, which can be expensive.  The company emailed me a check which was a bit blurry and instructed me to deposit it into my bank using my mobile banking app.  This was a RED FLAG.  After interacting with the interviewer, I decided to quit and walked away, only to have the company admin person contact me to re-consider.  Apparently the interviewer was chastised and to continue the interviewer wanted me to undergo a test to determine if I was able to complete certain tasks. I basically had to log on to Upwork and sign-up using names the interviewer supplied and through complete various steps of posting a job.  I went through these steps and captured screenshots of completed work.  The interviewer said I did well (of course).  Then the issue of the check was brought up.  The company wants to send another check next week for me to deposit to my bank using the bank's mobile app.  All of this is too phishy and borders on a scam.  I am at this point ready and willing to walk away.  I am not interfested in violating any ToS hurting my chances of finding freelance work.  It seems Upwork has a problem which is very difficult to deal with.  Any suggestions?


Borders on scam? 

You really need to stop talking with these scammers, that never ends well. Did you read the ToS in the meantime as was suggested to you? One could almost get the impression that you are aiming for most ToS violations in a week, a doubtful achievement. 


Amanda L wrote:

Martina P wrote:

Katie A wrote:

Are all Community Gurus like this? Blame the victim.  Everything is the freelancer's fault.  Freelancer's deserve to have their money stolen. Upwork is the Lord and Savior.  The term of service are the Bible.  

 

You don't want to empower anybody.  Freelancer's deserve better than this. These forums are a travesty. 


I like the forum. It provides a lot of free entertainment. And yes, a certain snarkiness is expected from a guru, otherwise nobody would pay us the big bucks. 


Someone put a chargeback on my guru payment this week, so I'm SOL. 


I am so sorry that happened to you. Maybe you will get a bonus!


Katie A wrote:

Are all Community Gurus like this? Blame the victim.  Everything is the freelancer's fault.  Freelancer's deserve to have their money stolen.


Nobody said that this freelancer deserved to have money stolen. But let's walk through what happened here. First, the client asked the freelancer to discuss a project off of Upwork. When that happens, a warning flashes up saying "don't do this", which the freelancer ignored. Mistake number 1. Then the "client" offered to send the freelancer a cheque worth thousands of dollars. Even if this wasn't a TOS violation, why would anyone think that a total stranger would send him - a completely new and unproven freelancer, whose identity hasn't even been verified - thousands of dollars, and trust him to buy equipment with it? That makes zero sense. Mistake number 2. Then the "client" asked the freelancer to create a bunch of accounts in other people's names and post fake jobs - which had nothing to do with translating work - and that didn't set off any alarm bells, either. The freelancer willingly took part in scamming other freelancers. Mistake number 3.

 

I think that the old saying, "No one can take advantage of you without your permission," applies here. He could have lost thousands of dollars, been investigated for fraud, and/or his Upwork account could have been banned. If a few people pointing out his mistakes in the forum is the worst thing that's happened to him, then I'd say he's pretty lucky. 


Christine A wrote:

Katie A wrote:

Are all Community Gurus like this? Blame the victim.  Everything is the freelancer's fault.  Freelancer's deserve to have their money stolen.


Nobody said that this freelancer deserved to have money stolen. But let's walk through what happened here. First, the client asked the freelancer to discuss a project off of Upwork. When that happens, a warning flashes up saying "don't do this", which the freelancer ignored. Mistake number 1. Then the "client" offered to send the freelancer a cheque worth thousands of dollars. Even if this wasn't a TOS violation, why would anyone think that a total stranger would send him - a completely new and unproven freelancer, whose identity hasn't even been verified - thousands of dollars, and trust him to buy equipment with it? That makes zero sense. Mistake number 2. Then the "client" asked the freelancer to create a bunch of accounts in other people's names and post fake jobs - which had nothing to do with translating work - and that didn't set off any alarm bells, either. The freelancer willingly took part in scamming other freelancers. Mistake number 3.

 

I think that the old saying, "No one can take advantage of you without your permission," applies here. He could have lost thousands of dollars, been investigated for fraud, and/or his Upwork account could have been banned. If a few people pointing out his mistakes in the forum is the worst thing that's happened to him, then I'd say he's pretty lucky. 


A good summary!! 

What really surprises me is that he is still active.
Weekend?

rverang
Community Member


Amanda L wrote:

Would you blame your bank if you gave out your pin number because you failed to read the sentence that says "do not share this pin number with other people."? 


You'd be surprised.

 

Smiley Happy

ga_freelancing
Community Member

I was interviewed for a proofreader position and ran into issues regarding financial aspects. In effect, everything went well, until the company said that I need financial/accounting software, which can be expensive. The company emailed me a check which was a bit blurry and instructed me to deposit it into my bank using my mobile banking app. This was a RED FLAG. After interacting with the interviewer for nearly 30 minutes, I decided to quit and walked away, only to have the company admin person contact me to re-consider. Apparently the interviewer was chastised and to continue the interviewer wanted me to undergo a test to determine if I was able to complete certain tasks. I had to log on to Upwork and sign-up using names the interviewer supplied and through complete various steps of posting a job. I went through these steps and captured screenshots of completed work. The interviewer said I did well (of course). Then the issue of the check was brought up. The company wants to send another check next week for me to deposit to my bank using the bank's mobile app. All of this is too phishy and borders on a scam. I am at this point ready and willing to walk away. I am not interested in violating any ToS hurting my chances of finding freelance work. It seems Upwork has a problem which is very difficult to deal with. Any suggestions?

Philip:
You have posted on exactly the same situation in multiple threads.

You are not supposed to do that. If you are talking about the same situation or experience, then you should confine the discussion to a single thread.

My apologies.

Philip, you should also go back and close all of the fake jobs that you posted, so that people don't waste their time and connects bidding on them.

You are correct. I shall do so. Thanks.


Philip O wrote:
You are correct. I shall do so. Thanks.

Rather, you should flag them all for Upwork as part of your TOS violation. I wouldn't log back into those accounts that you should not have logged into in the first place.  You should alert customer support at this point about those jobs, versus breaking TOS again to log into those accounts that you do not own and closing the jobs. 

Hi Philip,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience with these jobs. Taking payments outside of Upwork and sharing contact information before a contract has started is against Upwork's Terms of Service. All communications prior to the contract starting must take place on Upwork.

 

Feel free to check this help article on how you can stay safe on Upwork. Additionally, please check out this post for more tips on how to avoid questionable jobs and use the flag option found on each job post or message anytime you'd like to report a violation.

 

Thank you.

~ Aleksandar
Upwork

Yeah, that happened to me a while back.  And no, I didn't fall for it either.  I did notify the real company that someone was using their name as a scam or phish.  They immediately put out a warning to  people regarding it.

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