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cgj2020
Community Member

Scam and Fraud, Money Laundering

I have been scammed by a client, very heavy issue, this is unbelievable. Who manages fraud on Upwork?

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Carolina G wrote:

Is there any way to have a coach to get through all the trainings? I feel overwhelmed by all the amount of information there is...


I am sure you can hire a fellow freelancer do explain the basic dos and don'ts, the problem is that you have to add a client account and then create a job in order to pay the freelancer for his/her time.

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petra_r
Community Member


Carolina G wrote:

I have been scammed by a client, very heavy issue, this is unbelievable. Who manages fraud on Upwork?


Basically, you do, You avoid fraud by closely following the terms of service and not doing things that are strictly forbidden. (Such as communicating with a prospective client outside the platform and agreeing to receive money outside the platform).

 

Did you communicate with a prospective client outside of the platform and then receive a fake check or similar by any chance? (One of the oldest, dumbest scams on the web).

 

You can flag any any questionable job posts as inappropriate. There is a "flag as inappropriate" button on every job post. If there isn't any such button, the job post has already been taken down.

cgj2020
Community Member

Yes, I was interviewed by Telegram and then got funds on a check to buy some initial materials, then I had to transfer those via Zelle....this is a money laundering issue. Now I am worried they have my signature on the contract they sent me. They stopped answering me once they got the Zelle payments, I already reported this to my bank, the original company and you guys.... this is unbelievable.

petra_r
Community Member


Carolina G wrote:

Yes, I was interviewed by Telegram and then got funds on a check to buy some initial materials, then I had to transfer those via Zelle....this is a money laundering issue. 


It's not a money laundering issue because there was no money to be laundered. Money laundering is when someone turns criminally obtained money into clean money. In your case there was no money in the first place.

You fell for a very basic, ancient scam. What bone fide company would send a real check to a random stranger on the Internet and which genuine supplier of office equipment would expect payment via Zelle? Didn't any alarm bells go off? Even if a client wanted to buy you office equipment (they wouldn't - that simply doesn't happen), they would (obviously) order and pay for it themselves and have it shipped to you.

 


Carolina G wrote:

They stopped answering me once they got the Zelle payments.


Yes, of course they did. The minute you sent the money, they had what they wanted. They are (obviously) also not the company they said they are and not even in the USA.

 


Carolina G wrote:

Now I am worried they have my signature on the contract they sent me.


There is nothing they can do with your signature. They are not interested in your signature. Their interest in you ended the second they had your money.

 

You violated two of Upwork's most important terms of service:

1. You must not communicate with clients outside the platform before a contract is in place (a proper one on Upwork).

2. You must not accept any payment (fake or otherwise) outside the platform.

 

Had you not broken the rules, this wouldn't have happened to you.

The "client" has already been removed from the platform, but for everyone they remove, a dozen new ones spring up... 

 

In future, stick to the rules, and this kind of thing can't happen to you.

cgj2020
Community Member

Thank you for your help and response. I was not aware we couldn't communicate outside Upwork, and/or receiving funds for training materials. When kids go to school to learn, they have to buy books, so they can start training, so this is why I thought this could be legitimate.

 

Can you guys report this case to the Fraud Department? I assume there is an Upwork Fraud department that takes care of cyber crimes like this one.

 

Again I am really sorry for this. Is there any webinar were I can be trained on the full rules for working via Upwork? There is too much information and I am very overwhelmed. 

 

Also, I want to report that the fake contact, contacted to me this morning again. I obviously didn't reply.

 

Thanks again for all your help, I guess I am the typical innocent new freelancer...

a_lipsey
Community Member

Carolina, you've been scammed twice in a few days on very basic, common sense stuff. Perhaps you should stop accepting "interviews" or applying until you've read through all the Help pages and understand how Upwork works so you don't get scammed again. Or worse, unknowingly help someone else pull off a scam and lose your account entirely.
cgj2020
Community Member

Also, if I get a check from the contact, gets into my bank, the bank accepts the check and then I need to pay for 3rd party vendors via Zelle..... I understand I a money laundering... the amount that comes in ($1950) is the same that the one that goes out ($1950). As far as I know, this is money laundering...

petra_r
Community Member


Carolina G wrote:

 I understand I a money laundering...


No, you clearly don't.

 


Carolina G wrote:

the amount that comes in ($1950) is the same that the one that goes out ($1950). As far as I know, this is money laundering...


 

No money went into your account. Not a single Cent. The check was fake. A piece of paper went into your account. The money that went out is clean.

 

Money laundering is taking the proceeds of criminal activity (drug dealing, prostitution, blackmail etc etc etc) and funnelling that money through legitimate channels so the money ends up squeaky clean.

 

Your "money in" wasn't dirty, it never existed in the first place. There was no job, there was no money, there was no "stuff" to buy. Just a scammer who sent you a worthless piece of paper, after which you sent real money right back to him.

 

Carolina G wrote:

Can you guys report this case to the Fraud Department? I assume there is an Upwork Fraud department that takes care of cyber crimes like this one.


That "client" has long been removed from the platform. 


Carolina G wrote:

Also, if I get a check from the contact, gets into my bank, the bank accepts the check and then I need to pay for 3rd party vendors via Zelle..... I understand I a money laundering... the amount that comes in ($1950) is the same that the one that goes out ($1950). As far as I know, this is money laundering...


No, because no money is "coming in". The cheques that scammers send are fake and will bounce. This is pure theft, not money laundering. 

 


Carolina G wrote:

When kids go to school to learn, they have to buy books, so they can start training, so this is why I thought this could be legitimate.


Huh? If a total stranger on the Internet offered to buy books for your kids, that wouldn't raise any alarms for you? Anyway, we're not kids - we're supposed to already have whatever training and equipment is needed to carry out our work.

An entertaining way to learn about what money laundering actually is:

 

The Netflix TV series "Ozark."

 

I don't know of any other fictional series or movie that is so focused on the topic of money laundering. In order to maintain accuracy, the show's writers worked closely with experts, including an FBI agent specialized in financial crimes, and a hedge fund manager.

The check went through the bank, that's why I am surprised, and the bank has confirmed it...

Yes, I will read through all pages before accepting any offer.... Upwork training should be mandatory and it shouldn't allow anyone to start doing business before a full training is completed ... this is where Upwork is lacking and I am suggesting you guys do a mandatory training, before the user can accept any offer. Thanks all for your help


Carolina G wrote:

The check went through the bank, that's why I am surprised, and the bank has confirmed it...

Yes, I will read through all pages before accepting any offer.... Upwork training should be mandatory and it shouldn't allow anyone to start doing business before a full training is completed ... this is where Upwork is lacking and I am suggesting you guys do a mandatory training, before the user can accept any offer. Thanks all for your help


You can't blame Upwork that you didn't care about how the portal works.


Although I do agree that it is time for Upwork to demand an examination in order to start submitting proposals.
This has already been discussed many times.

Then upwork is not a place to do business on first instance, but a place where first you need to study and train for a while, and then you can do business.... I understand Upwork is a learning freelance platform, that if you pass that learning, then you would be able to do business. Don't sell it as a place to do business on the first place. 


Carolina G wrote:

Then upwork is not a place to do business on first instance, but a place where first you need to study and train for a while, and then you can do business.... I understand Upwork is a learning freelance platform, that if you pass that learning, then you would be able to do business. Don't sell it as a place to do business on the first place. 


Any portal of this style has its rules and instructions for use. That's what the help is for and how to get started.
I am registered in several portals and the first thing I did in all of them is to read and read, from how to build my profile to how to collect my earnings.
And in Upwork we are lucky to have this very active forum, which is not available in other portals. Here I have learned a lot and tried to help with what I am learning.
You keep throwing balls out.
It's not Upwork's fault.

 

They sell it for what it is. A place to do business.
Knowing how to use the site is the responsibility of anyone who wants to use its services.

 

Is there any way to have a coach to get through all the trainings? I feel overwhelmed by all the amount of information there is...


Carolina G wrote:

Is there any way to have a coach to get through all the trainings? I feel overwhelmed by all the amount of information there is...


I'm sure if you add a client account to your profile and post a job, you'll attract plenty of FLs who woud be happy to coach you for an hourly fee.

 


Phyllis G wrote:

Carolina G wrote:

Is there any way to have a coach to get through all the trainings? I feel overwhelmed by all the amount of information there is...


I'm sure if you add a client account to your profile and post a job, you'll attract plenty of FLs who woud be happy to coach you for an hourly fee.

 


If you have the same idea as I do, if has to be right.


Carolina G wrote:

Is there any way to have a coach to get through all the trainings? I feel overwhelmed by all the amount of information there is...


I am sure you can hire a fellow freelancer do explain the basic dos and don'ts, the problem is that you have to add a client account and then create a job in order to pay the freelancer for his/her time.

Thank you, I think this is going to be the best solution. 


Carolina G wrote:

Thank you, I think this is going to be the best solution. 


__________________________

It isn't the best solution (yet). Accepting any contract and any payment off site without a formal contract in place is against Upwork rules and regs 

 

Your best solution is to read:

1) Upwork's Terms of Service (if you had you would not be in this position now)

2) All the pinned advice threads in the "New to Upwork" dropdown,  under Community Discussions - and this one in particular by Vladimir:  https://community.upwork.com/t5/New-to-Upwork/Getting-Started-on-Upwork/m-p/264214#M2460

 

 

(Note to Upwork.  It really would make more sense to put Vladimir's post at the top - before asking freelancers to comment on their onboarding experience. Wouldn't it be better to prioritize better understanding of the site?)

 

 

I guess now is a good time to tell OP that any calls asking for gift cards or they want to connect to your PC are also a scam. Her number will get past around a lot. She got scammed twice now so they will keep going.

Thanks for taking the time to share your feedback, John and Nichola. We'll pass this along to the appropriate team for review.

 

- Pradeep H.

Upwork


Carolina G wrote:

Then upwork is not a place to do business on first instance, but a place where first you need to study and train for a while, and then you can do business.... I understand Upwork is a learning freelance platform, that if you pass that learning, then you would be able to do business. Don't sell it as a place to do business on the first place. 


No, Upwork isn't a "learning freelance platform" and they have no responsibility to train us - it's just a place where clients and freelancers can connect. People who want to be told what to do are better off working as employees, instead of trying to run their own businesses.


Carolina G wrote:

The check went through the bank, that's why I am surprised, and the bank has confirmed it...

Yes, I will read through all pages before accepting any offer.... Upwork training should be mandatory and it shouldn't allow anyone to start doing business before a full training is completed ... this is where Upwork is lacking and I am suggesting you guys do a mandatory training, before the user can accept any offer. Thanks all for your help


How much are you willing to pay for this training? As a FL, I certainly don't want the fees I pay going toward this kind of hand-holding. UW makes available reams and reams of information about how to use the platform safely and profitably and this forum contains dozens if not hundreds of discussion threads where successful FLs share tips and insights, do's and dont's. It's up to each FL joining the platform to do their homework, learn how the platform works and understand how to get started using it. I do think there should be a meaningful readiness test that every new FL is required to pass before they are allowed to bid on projects, that tests (among many other things) their ability to recognize scams. We've been begging for it for years. Meanwhile, everybody needs to treat UW like the global marketplace it is and take responsibility for their business.

Yes, if is not a mandatory training, then a mandatory readiness test. 

petra_r
Community Member


Carolina G wrote:

The check went through t


You mean it cleared and is still cleared?

If so, it will bounce. It's just taking longer. You will lose that money if you haven't already (and possibly your bank account)

 


Carolina G wrote:

The check went through the bank, that's why I am surprised, and the bank has confirmed it...

Yes, I will read through all pages before accepting any offer.... Upwork training should be mandatory and it shouldn't allow anyone to start doing business before a full training is completed ... this is where Upwork is lacking and I am suggesting you guys do a mandatory training, before the user can accept any offer. Thanks all for your help. This is where Upwork is lacking...


 Don't blame Upwork for your lack of preparation and critical thinking.

 

It frankly just needs a modicum of common sense to understand that real companies don't send real checks to random strangers on the Internet. Nothing about that nonsense makes any sense whatsoever at all.

 

Carolina G wrote:

Then upwork is not a place to do business on first instance


Of course it is. It assumes (as one should be able to) that people read the rules and use their common sense. This kind of "I demand to be protected from myself" attitude is what leads to warning notices of "may contain traces of nuts" on a bag of peanuts, microwave companies being sued because they didn't specifically warn users that their devices are not suitable for drying pets and people spraying their hair with spray glue.

 

Presumably you don't try to fly a plane across the country before you educated yourself on how to fly and what the controls do?

 

Upwork has rules in place partly to protect people from their own lack of common sense. There is only so much Upwork can do if those people then steadfastly refuse to educate themselves.

Hello Carolina,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. Could you please click on my picture next to this post and send me a private message with more information and the job post link for the client in question so I could forward this to the appropriate team to review and take action?

 

Thank you.

Pradeep H

 

 

Upwork
corati
Community Member

Hi Carolina,

It seems you've been scammed twice within a few days. Scammers are targeting new freelancers, so you've got to be extra cautious. Don't start working unless you have a contract in Upwork and don't accept interviews outside of Upwork. And spend some time in the freelancers forum (you can type "scam" in the search box to get an idea about the most common scams).

yitwail
Community Member

It’s clear to me that many new freelancers either don’t read or understand the portions of the TOS pertaining to payment off platform. So here’s a suggestion to Upwork. As part of the application process for a freelancer account, require the applicant to check a checkbox that says “I agree not to accept any check from an Upwork client until 2 years after first making contact with the client.”
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