🐈
» Forums » Freelancers » Separate contract terms outside of Upwork doc...
Page options
amason98
Community Member

Separate contract terms outside of Upwork docs?

A company on Upwork wants to hire me to write a document for them but they are asking for a seperate agreement outside of Upwork in addition to hiring me on Upwork. They want the document to be a contract that details the scopeo, deliverables, payment terms, etc. I told them that would all be on the Upwrok proposal but they said they need something seperate before they can authorize payment. 

 

Has anyone ever heard of that? I dont want to violate the Upwork terms. 

12 REPLIES 12
kinector
Community Member

Those clients who understand how this platform works don't ask for additional contracts them being quite redundant.

Signing a separate NDA is popular, though.

Could be that it's just a new and unsure client.

Maybe just hint about the official Upwork guides on this matter.

Yeah I have no problem with the NDA. I just wonder what signing 2 seperate contracts does for my liability should anything go wrong. Which one would govern?

i would like to as freelance separate work do i can work separate without plateform upwork 

Upwork explicitly allows clients and freelancers to agree to additional contracts outside of the default Upwork-provided contract.

 

As a freelancer, you may require your clients to agree to your additional contract. A client may require you to agree to theirs. Either side may decline to do so. That may mean you don't get hired.

 

fe: "Which one would govern?"

 

Typically both. But a supplementary contract may supersede an Upwork contract.

 

Having said that, Upwork's source code is unable to read and adhere to a supplemental contract. If a supplemental contract states that freelancer will be paid at 150% of their regular rate for hours they work on weekends... Upwork's automated payment system is not going to automatically adjust for that.

 

"fe: "Which one would govern?"

 

Typically both. But a supplementary contract may supersede an Upwork contract."

 

Preston, you are not a lawyer last time I checked.  Contract law is complicated and there are a lot of factors that would come into play as to which would supercede the other, including the language, dates fully executed by all parties, etc.

 

Mary, I have not claimed to be a lawyer. The original poster wasn't asking for a lawyer's opinion.

 

Was there something I said here that you disagree with?


Preston H wrote:

Was there something I said here that you disagree with?


You are mixing up two different things and then claim that "typically both" apply which is false.

 

The two things you (once again) mix up are Upwork's terms of service, which are non negotiable unless otherwise stated, and the optional service contract terms, which are optional, and are considered to be accepted unless superseded by different terms as stated. In other words, ONLY the bits in the optional service contract terms can be replaced by one between the freelancer and the client.

Completely false. 

 

Upwork allows two options: entering into your own contract or using default (now called optional) contract terms. 

 

The optional contract terms are entirely unsuitable or inadequate for many arrangements, so most professionals will use their own contracts, or at the very least write up alternative or supplemental contract terms in their offer. 

martina_plaschka
Community Member


Andrea D wrote:

A company on Upwork wants to hire me to write a document for them but they are asking for a seperate agreement outside of Upwork in addition to hiring me on Upwork. They want the document to be a contract that details the scopeo, deliverables, payment terms, etc. I told them that would all be on the Upwrok proposal but they said they need something seperate before they can authorize payment. 

 

Has anyone ever heard of that? I dont want to violate the Upwork terms. 


I have not. Your work might be very sensitive and confidential or other things I know nothing about, so maybe it's reasonable they ask for that. I mean, what the heck, if it's a good project, why not sign it. Are they going to sue you? Probably not. I hope Mary does not read this. 

LOL.  I didn't mean to stir things up.  It's just that the question of which would supersede which is very technical.  If you and the client are in the same country and if the amount of money is significant, one party might find it a good idea to file suit over a breach. I would have no problem signing an outside contract, depending on the terms.  If it involves any type of prohibition against working for a competitor or working on similar products for a period of time, then of course you wouldn't sign it.  If it's a glorified NDA, no problem.  An outside contract could cover ownership of fonts, stock photo licenses, etc.


Mary W wrote:

LOL.  I didn't mean to stir things up.  It's just that the question of which would supersede which is very technical.  If you and the client are in the same country and if the amount of money is significant, one party might find it a good idea to file suit over a breach. I would have no problem signing an outside contract, depending on the terms.  If it involves any type of prohibition against working for a competitor or working on similar products for a period of time, then of course you wouldn't sign it.  If it's a glorified NDA, no problem.  An outside contract could cover ownership of fonts, stock photo licenses, etc.


No worries. While I was writing my comment, the spectre of "but what if both she and her client is in the US, where everybody sues everybody and their dog for any real or imagined infraction, with a laywer on a contingency fee?" rose its ugly head. So I am adding this disclaimer: People in the US are (slightly, probably) crazy.

tlbp
Community Member


Andrea D wrote:

A company on Upwork wants to hire me to write a document for them but they are asking for a seperate agreement outside of Upwork in addition to hiring me on Upwork. They want the document to be a contract that details the scopeo, deliverables, payment terms, etc. I told them that would all be on the Upwrok proposal but they said they need something seperate before they can authorize payment. 

 

Has anyone ever heard of that? I dont want to violate the Upwork terms. 


My experience has been that most clients rely on the Upwork TOS as their contract. In my opinion, these clients probably don't give a lot of thought to liability, etc. and just assume all is well unless something goes wrong.

Some clients have asked me to sign a separate NDA. They need it because someone in their organization tells them to get it or they want to make sure their NDA language is part of our agreement. Not a big deal for me as long as it is an actual NDA and not a "kitchen sink" agreement posing as an NDA. I have also successfully negotiated to change the terms of an NDA that overreached. However, I was working directly with the CEO of the company, so there was no one else telling them what they had to do. 

Other clients (usually off Upwork) will ask you to sign their standard independent contractor agreement. I suspect that in most cases they are large organziations that have internal controls that prohibit payment unless this contract is on file. Sometimes a smaller startup will ask for a similiar contract because that's what their lawyer gave them and told them to always get signed. In both instances, the person you are dealing with likely doesn't understand all the implications of the contract or has limited authority (or the knowledge) to negotiate it. 

In my opinion, these idependent contractor agreements, they often include almost identical IP language that is very broad. They may also include choice of jurisdiction and law, indemnification and other provisions which make the cost of a contract going bad far exceed the value of the fees the freelancer can earn. Personally, I'm not signing a contract that could put me on the hook for thousands of legal and other fees to earn a few hundred bucks writing an article.

Finally, some will include a non-compete agreement. As a freelancer, this is a death knell. Maybe, if a client is paying me enough during the term of the contract that I have no incentive to work for a competitor, I will sign one--but ONLY for the term of the contract. If you agree to a non-compete that extends beyond the contract, you have just agreed not earn money doing what you do best. (Non-competes are sometimes unenforceable, but that isn't guaranteed and it doesn't prevent the company from attempting to enforce it against you.) 

In your situation, I think the cost to risk analysis is most critical. What does the contract say? What could it potentially cost you if things go sour? What is the value of the fees you'll earn? If you are uncomfortable making the analysis and can't afford an attorney--then it may be best to have a policy to not sign outside contracts. You may lose out on some gigs from organizations that insist on having one, but you'll also avoid some risks. 

Latest Articles
Top Upvoted Members