Service Fees for Elance clients

katiecan1 · ‎01-23-2020

A former client of mine from Elance (2014) contacted me recently for new work. My previous Elance billings for this client would put me in the 5% service fee range. The client gave me the option of working directly (eg outside of Upwork) but I opted for keeping it within the Upwork system — believing that the prior earnings would be factored in and qualify for a 5% service fee.

I contacted Customer Service to request the reduced service fee based on cumulative billings from Elance, but was surprised to learn that these earnings won't qualify and I will have to start over at the beginning — a 20% service fee.

I feel that billings from a company that was acquired by Upwork should qualify for reduced service fee.

I write this to raise awareness among freelancers who may be faced with a similar situation regarding qualifying lifetime earnings for previous Elance clients.

PS The client's feedback (provided through Elance at the time) appears on my profile along with contract earnings.

tlsanders · ‎01-23-2020

That's incredibly stupid. It leaves a freelancer with no rational reason to work through the platform, so Upwork is effectively saying "We'd rather have zero than 5%."

katiecan1 · ‎01-23-2020

Thanks for your reply. I did reply to Customer Service and asked for confirmation that they would not object to me taking the client off site. I am awaiting a reply.

lysis10 · ‎01-23-2020

oooh well if the client created a new account, then yeah that's why you're getting charged a different amount. You would get the 5% if the client had transferred their account, which apparently they didn't. Either the CS didn't understand yoru question or was using the wrong canned answer.

m_sharman · ‎01-23-2020

Kathryn M wrote:
Thanks for your reply. I did reply to Customer Service and asked for confirmation that they would not object to me taking the client off site. I am awaiting a reply.

If you first worked with this client in 2014, that would seem to meet the requirement of 2 years of knowing the client, I would think it's fine to take the client off site - but would love to hear from those more well versed in TOS than I am.

petra_r · ‎01-23-2020

Miriam H wrote:
Kathryn M wrote:
Thanks for your reply. I did reply to Customer Service and asked for confirmation that they would not object to me taking the client off site. I am awaiting a reply.
If you first worked with this client in 2014, that would seem to meet the requirement of 2 years of knowing the client, I would think it's fine to take the client off site - but would love to hear from those more well versed in TOS than I am.

That was my first instinct too, but I am not sure it is as straightforward as that.

If they consider the legal entity (the client account, rather than the person) to be different to the one she worked with in 2014 for fee purposes, they may consider it to be different for the purpose of working outside the platform.

I'd wait for Support.

m_sharman · ‎01-23-2020

Petra R wrote:
Miriam H wrote:
Kathryn M wrote:
Thanks for your reply. I did reply to Customer Service and asked for confirmation that they would not object to me taking the client off site. I am awaiting a reply.
If you first worked with this client in 2014, that would seem to meet the requirement of 2 years of knowing the client, I would think it's fine to take the client off site - but would love to hear from those more well versed in TOS than I am.
That was my first instinct too, but I am not sure it is as straightforward as that.
If they consider the legal entity (the client account, rather than the person) to be different to the one she worked with in 2014 for fee purposes, they may consider it to be different for the purpose of working outside the platform.

I'd wait for Support.

Although, did the client contact her on Upwork? Or perhaps offline and she is working to bring them to Upwork?

Regardless, as she has engaged support, your point is taken, she has to wait.

katiecan1 · ‎01-24-2020

Thanks Petra and Miriam!

I entered into a new Upwork contract with this client by giving the client my Bring Your Own Client link. I then advised Support that I was seeking a reduced service fee based on prior earnings from 2014.

While I will not be taking this client off the Upwork platform, I am interested in hearing the response from Support regarding my question about whether a freelancer can engage with a client off-site under similar circumstances — for future reference.

lysis10 · ‎01-23-2020

Kathryn M wrote:
A former client of mine from Elance (2014) contacted me recently for new work. My previous Elance billings for this client would put me in the 5% service fee range. The client gave me the option of working directly (eg outside of Upwork) but I opted for keeping it within the Upwork system — believing that the prior earnings would be factored in and qualify for a 5% service fee.

I contacted Customer Service to request the reduced service fee based on cumulative billings from Elance, but was surprised to learn that these earnings won't qualify and I will have to start over at the beginning — a 20% service fee.

I feel that billings from a company that was acquired by Upwork should qualify for reduced service fee.

I write this to raise awareness among freelancers who may be faced with a similar situation regarding qualifying lifetime earnings for previous Elance clients.

CS is either wrong or something changed or the client is using a different account. Not only do you get the 5% but you are also only charged the 8% on Elance clients.

katiecan1 · ‎01-23-2020

Thanks for your reply. The client may have used a different email address when opening their Upwork account - how would I know? Which really means I don't see a remedy for this situation should the same scenario crop up again.

PS Even an 8% service fee would be acceptable.

joansands · ‎01-23-2020

Kathryn - I think your client would have to use the same contract they had with you on Elance unless it was closed. I say that because I have a client where we had one contract that went over $500 so I then only paid a 10% fee to Upwork. Then the client opened a new contract with her same name but a different company (she owns 2 companies) and then I went back to a 20% fee for that second contract. I questioned Upwork about that & the answer was that it was because of the second company even though it was the same woman.

petra_r · ‎01-23-2020

Joan S wrote:
Kathryn - I think your client would have to use the same contract they had with you on Elance unless it was closed.

No, the client does not have to use the same contract, the client just needs to use the same **account**.

Joan S wrote:
I say that because I have a client where we had one contract that went over $500 so I then only paid a 10% fee to Upwork. Then the client opened a new contract with her same name but a different company (she owns 2 companies) and then I went back to a 20% fee for that second contract.

That had nothing to do with it not being the same contract, and everything to do with it being a different client account.

The fee-tiers are tied to clients (a client being defined as "a client account") and not to contracts. You can have 50 contracts with the same client (using the same client account) and the fees will behave in the same way as they would if it was a single contract.

wendy_writes · ‎01-24-2020

Kathryn, please let us know the final resolution as this impacts a number of us. Fingers crossed for 5%.

katiecan1 · ‎01-24-2020

Will do! Thanks for your reply, Wendy.

katiecan1 · ‎01-24-2020

Thanks for your explanation, Joan.

I feel that Upwork could at least see if the feedback left by this client for me in 2014 (still appearing on my current Upwork profile) was from the same client and, if so, give me the 8% service fee instead of 20%.

kochubei_valeria · ‎01-24-2020

Hi Kathryn,

We had your concern and support ticket escalated and you should receive an update shortly.

Thanks!

~ Valeria

katiecan1 · ‎01-24-2020

Thanks, Valeria, much appreciated!

katiecan1 · ‎01-29-2020

Update:

What I learned in this process was that the client was was unable to successfully use the BYOC link I provided.

I was told this particular situation required a 'manual adjustment' which has now been done. The service fee has been lowered and the matter is now resolved.

Thank you to the Community and Moderators for your support in resolving this matter.

petra_r · ‎01-29-2020

Kathryn M wrote:
Update:
What I learned in this process was that the client was was unable to successfully use the BYOC link I provided.
The service fee has been lowered and the matter is now resolved.

Thank you to the community for you support in resolving this matter.

The plot thickens... You are top rated...

That means that the Bring Your Own Client link should eliminate the service fee altogether (0%), not lower it...

Here are different scenarios and their fee levels:

The client is considered an existing client and you spent 10k with her = Fee 5%
The client is considered a new client and was on Upwork with their (new) account before you sent the link = Fee 20%
The client is considered a new client and signed up after they got the BYOC link = Fee 0%

katiecan1 · ‎01-29-2020

Hi Petra,

To clarify, in this situation the Client already had a new account but it was not linked to their former Elance account so my prior earnings were not automatically factored in to the service fee calculation.

Once the issue was acknowledged by Upwork customer service, which did not happen until the Moderator's escalated my issue, the service fee was lowered to 5%.

When I pointed out that I had used the BYOC link - not knowing the client actually had a new account, as a courtesy the service fee was reduced to 0%.

My goal was to have the service fee lowered and I would have been happy with anything, just not starting over at 20%. For example: 10% (based on prior earnings which were actually just under $10K), 8% (based on prior Upwork offer to Elancers), 5% (based on qualifying earnings of $10K+) or 0% (based on terms of BYOC).

Although it took multiple requests and the support of the Community and Moderators to get to the right Customer Service person with the authority to resolve my issue, in the end it was worth the effort.

Best,

Kathryn

petra_r · ‎01-29-2020

Kathryn M wrote:

When I pointed out that I had used the BYOC link - not knowing the client actually had a new account, as a courtesy the service fee was reduced to 0%.

Oh great, so you ended up getting "better" than you had hoped for.

Glad to hear it was all resolved in the end 🙂

I am still not convinced they actually fully intended that outcome, but it's great for you...

wendy_writes · ‎01-29-2020

So glad it worked out ... although the path was highly convoluted.

1. Why should 'Bring your own client' even be a part of the equation?

2. The client and FLer had a record of working together. A simple invite should not have triggered this kind of time consuming and aggravating mess for either party.

3. CS needs to learn to check and understand documentation openly available vs. using canned language that belies the imagination.

katiecan1 · ‎01-29-2020

Hi Wendy,

Thanks for your comments, I'm glad it worked out too 🙂

In response to your points:

1) The BYOC would not have been a part of the equation except that I beleived that the client did not have a current Upwork account so used my BYOC link so that he could open one.

2) & 3) This is where CS failed to respond to my request for a 'reduction in service fees based on prior earnings' - twice I received a canned response instead.

I'm still a little unclear about how I would handle a similar situation in the future other than to request a 'manual review' and see if that works. It really was a grey area in terms of the Upwork service fee terms.

Best,

Kathryn