Should I charge for writing a proposal?

shawnvw · ‎12-12-2020

I've been communicating with client who will in all likelyhood hire me for her project. Because it will be long and involved, she asked me to write up a proposal for her managers explaining what I plan to do, and how much I think it will cost. I asked her to send me certain materials so I can come up with a plan, and estimate the time and cost.

I haven't received the materials yet, so I can't be sure how much work will be involved in writing the proposal itself. If it takes longer than, say, 45 minutes, I feel I should ask to be paid for the time.

Is this a reasonable request? If so, how do I ask, and how would she pay me (considering that she hasn't hired me yet)?

prestonhunter · ‎12-12-2020

Of course you should be paid for your work, including your work writing a proposal on behalf of this client.

I have been paid hundreds of dollars to write proposals. Some people are paid thousands.

Sometimes those proposals lead to the bid being accepted. Sometimes they don't. But we still get paid for our work on the proposal.

abinadab-agbo · ‎12-12-2020

A likelihood remains a likelihood.

Lock it in now.

Shawn W wrote:
I feel I should ask to be paid for the time.

Is this a reasonable request?

Yes. That is, of course, if you're asking about your intent to ask to be paid in which case you should have said "Would this be a reasonable request" because you haven't asked yet.

The request to write a possibly time-consuming proposal for free is clearly not reasonable.

She could get approval from the so-called management and take her money elsewhere.

Such highly detailed proposals prepared without pay are more practicable outside Upwork, for things like major government contracts.

Not for Upwork gigs. Upwork has sought to simplify the proposal process.

shawnvw · ‎12-12-2020

Abinadab A wrote:

Such highly detailed proposals prepared without pay are more practicable outside Upwork, for things like major government contracts.
Not for Upwork gigs. Upwork has sought to simplify the proposal process.

Are you sure it's "simplified"?

It seems to me that the client will have to "hire" me so that I can charge her to work on the proposal. Then if her bosses decide not to use me, she ends the contract. Is that correct?

prestonhunter · ‎12-12-2020

re: "It seems to me that the client will have to 'hire' me so that I can charge her to work on the proposal."

In order for you to get paid, you MUST have an Upwork contract in place.

In order for this client to pay you, you MUST be hired. But that does NOT mean you must be hired to work on the complete project.

The client could hire you to work on the proposal, and then hire somebody else to work on the project.

Ths is a big project. If the contract is awarded to this team, you would certainly not be the only person working on the project.

re: "Then if her bosses decide not to use me, she ends the contract. Is that correct?"

Probably.
Unless she has another project that she wants you to write proposals for.

There are many people who only write proposals for projects. Such as grant writers. That is literally all they do.

https://www.upwork.com/ab/profiles/search/?q=grant%20writers&user_pref=1

abinadab-agbo · ‎12-12-2020

Shawn W wrote:
Abinadab A wrote:

Such highly detailed proposals prepared without pay are more practicable outside Upwork, for things like major government contracts.
Not for Upwork gigs. Upwork has sought to simplify the proposal process.
Are you sure it's "simplified"?

It seems to me that the client will have to "hire" me so that I can charge her to work on the proposal. Then if her bosses decide not to use me, she ends the contract. Is that correct?

The advice above has been, have a contract created specifically for the proposal writing, and nothing else.

Then if it's greenlighted, you create another contract for the project proper.

If you merge the two together it might get problematic later on...

For instance, she might mark the project as "Not successfully completed" (due to no fault of yours) if management doesn't greenlight her.

feed_my_eyes · ‎12-12-2020

If it's a big project (worth a minimum of $2,000-3,000) then the norm in my line of work (graphic design) is that you will make a formal proposal for free. But only you can decide whether it's worth the investment of time or not.

abinadab-agbo · ‎12-12-2020

I was about to note that norms vary from one category to the next, and OP is not a designer. You have edited your post to reflect that 🙂

Especially in IT, I personally don't believe folks should invest major amounts of time in drafting the kind of proposal OP is referring to, without pay.

Clients are literally posting jobs to write up the specs of a job every day.

prestonhunter · ‎12-12-2020

It makes a big difference if you are pitching yourself, to be hired by the client...

...In which case I undertand putting together a proposal for free.

Or if you are preparing a proposal for a client, and that client is going to be sending your proposal directly (or as part of a broader proposal) to another client.

But even if the proposal isn't being sent to somebody else, I am often paid for preparing a detailed project proposal, after my initial job proposal has been accepted.

shawnvw · ‎12-12-2020

I'm guessing I should clarify some details:

The client is asking me to do programming in MS Office. Her managers have to approve hiring me, which is why they asked for my proposal.

From what I know of the project: deciding what I'd need to do, and writing the proposal, may not take very long (by which I mean half an hour or less). I wouldn't mind doing that for free.

But I beleive the proposal could take 45-60 minutes. I'm asking if, in that case, I'd be justified in asking to be paid.

(I don't know how much the project itself will ultimatly pay. That's partly why I'm writing the proposal! If I had to guess, I'd say in the neighborhood of $8,000-10,000)

carloslobo28 · ‎12-12-2020

As my experience and my common sense tells me, it would be unprofessional to be paid for such a thing like that. You were preselected for the job, the proposal you should write is what actually will decide your destin. The client only preselected you to send a serious proposal for the job. Asking to be paid for that is like asking to get paid to be interviewed. It's common for clients to inetview people and in the meantime ask for a proposal, like what tools you would use, the budget and time, is nothing more than just part of the interview.

feed_my_eyes · ‎12-13-2020

Shawn W wrote:

But I beleive the proposal could take 45-60 minutes. I'm asking if, in that case, I'd be justified in asking to be paid.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what we think - it only matters whether the client is willing to pay or not. If you already have plenty of work and don't mind potentially losing out on a job of that size, then make a decision based on that.

As Will points out, if the client does decide to pay for an hour of your time and then doesn't like your proposal, they'll be able to leave you bad feedback. So, there's that. I would prefer to write a proposal first and only have the client hire me after they're sure that I'm a good fit.

tlbp · ‎12-13-2020

Christine A wrote:
If it's a big project (worth a minimum of $2,000-3,000) then the norm in my line of work (graphic design) is that you will make a formal proposal for free. But only you can decide whether it's worth the investment of time or not.

Same. I don't like writing detailed proposals because they take time away from paid work. But, if the eventual payoff is a gig I'm really interested in, then I'll do it.

OP, the biggest risk that I see is that they are shopping for advice, not freelancers. This is similar to the job interviews that ask candidates to submit 90-day plans. The prospective employer only hires one person but gets lots of ideas for free.

You have to decide what is best for you. As a client, I would probably not create a contract just to accept proposals. I would expect the freelancer to provide me with the information I need to make a decision as part of their prospecting efforts. However, I would also not ask them to create a full plan free of charge. I've had conversations with prospects that concluded with me telling them I could give them a plan of action for a fee. You have to draw your line between getting to know the client and getting paid for your time.

If you don't feel comfortable doing the proposal without compensation, you can limit your proposal to what you can put together in 45 minutes or less, decline to do the proposal, or ask for a small contract to do that work only. I would say I am more likely to create a lengthy proposal if I am not busy with other work and I think I can learn something through the process that I apply in the future.

29ff4bc7 · ‎12-19-2023

I met a company worker not long ago, I started publishing project for her on Upwork so, I have not been payed at all, is paying necessary??

ashrafkhan81 · ‎12-12-2020

I do not know how without there being a proposal in the first place you two got in touch? Maybe you worked for her on another job? maybe you know her personally? In either case, I think the conversation went something like this:

She: Hey Shawn, I have this new project that our company is thinking of...

Shawn: Wow! that's kool I can do that, I have all the skills and experience required to complete the job.

She: That's wonderful, send me a formal proposal so I can present it to the management.

Now Shawn is looking at an 8000-10000 dollar value job and wondering whether or not he should charge for drafting a proposal that would take 45-60 mins.

You know what, you are not writing a proposal on her "behalf" you are writing a proposal for your self. She sent you an RFP, and if you are interested in the job, no matter how long it takes you should not charge and I do not think a client will pay to receive a proposal unless it was a very different niche industry. I do not know any industry that pay's to receive a proposal.

It is almost like when you fill up a webform asking for more inforation on some product or service, the salesperson at that company, instead of calling a hot lead. Starts wondering whether they should first ask for 1 hours payment, that they anticipate spending with you on phone explaining the product.

That's not how it works, that's not how any of it works. You are writing this proposal for yourself not on behalf of anyone!

When you receive the material and necessary information just send the proposal if you are interested in the job.

richard_wein · ‎12-13-2020

I often spend an hour or more scoping a project before contract. Even if it's going to be paid hourly (which most of my work is) new clients usually want an estimate. Also, before accepting a job, I want to make sure that it's a job I can do well and want to do. For a job that will pay $8000-10000 I'd be willing to spend rather more than one hour.

I see this time as an investment. I'd like to say that I allow for it in my hourly rate, but to be honest I don't think my hourly rate is high enough!

Occasionally, after I've got a job I've asked the client if they're OK with me charging for the time I've spent on it already, and they've said yes.

That said, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for you to stipulate that you will charge for the time. However, for one hour, with a contract of that size, and where you're pretty confident of getting it, I don't think it's worth asking for a contract in advance of writing the proposal.

petra_r · ‎12-13-2020

Richard W wrote:
For a job that will pay $8000-10000 I'd be willing to spend rather more than one hour.

Me too. Not for a job paying much less though!

Richard W wrote:
I don't think it's worth asking for a contract in advance of writing the proposal.

I don't either and frankly it may well throw up a little red flag that you're inro nickel-and-diming which would not be super for a long term relationship .

wlyonsatl · ‎12-13-2020

It seems to me, Shawn, additional parts of the equation for you are:

1) Are you happy to have this client be able to leave formal feedback for you based only on the RFP, which is what will happen if you enter into a contract for just the RFP?

2) What hourly rate do you expect to be paid? If you expect this project will earn you $2,000 and your rate will be $40/hour, then investing 45 minutes would be worthwhile. (Especially because it also makes it more likely the project will be completed successfully). But if you would charge $500 an hour then spending nearly 1/4 of the total project time working for free is a different story.

To avoid difficult clients and ill-conceived projects I often spend an hour or more talking to and sizing up a potential client before agreeing to a contract. But that is only because an hour is a small fraction of the total time I expect to spend on the average project.

On the other hand, if I get the impression that a potential client just wants me to help them design their project for free, I'm less inclined to provide extensive details about how I think their project should be structured. Free is the only price some Upwork clients are willing to pay.

Good luck!