Should Upwork Change the Feedback System?

[joansands]

The biggest problem I have with Upwork is the feedback system. I would like to see them change it. My suggestions are to do away with private feedback and also do away with the 1 to 5 rating system. Both clients and freelancers could be allowed to leave written feedback that could be seen on both sides but with no numbers, which are sort of meaningless anyway. Does anyone have additional suggestions?

[joansands]

Tonya - It seems to me that a client who is not willing to communicate with their paid freelancer is actually robbing themselves of their voice. That has nothing to do with Upwork. It is work to lead. But communication is not a one-way street. Freelancers also need to communicate.

[m_sharman]

I have had my frustrations with the JSS, however the more time I spend freelancing, the more I carefully consider who is a good fit for me. My batting average is improving, but it's not perfect.

The fact of the matter is, no system is perfect (just look at Yelp, or Angie's List), everything is subject to manipulation and abuse.  For a dark look at the future, check out the episode of Black Mirror "Nose Dive" starring Bryce Dallas Howard, we are not far from this future. 

I hope Upwork continues to provide clients with the necessary tools to effectively screen Freelancers they want to speak with and match them with jobs. For the most part, when I receive an invite, the job is appropriate, but the rate isn't always.   Maybe that is an area for improvement, revising how the proposals are structured to invite more discussion about jobs/rates vs. the current form we are given (milestone vs. hourly). I have my own approach in proposals, however I suspect not all clients read past my rate - even those that invite me.

Another option would be the opportunity for freelancers to send clients a survey, however I'm not a huge fan of survey's either.

I guess the bigger point is, most of this meaningless.  The JSS is a guide, and there is no question one below 90% can be tough, but it's not the only way to get work.  As someone who is also looking for full time work, it's not much easier on that side of the fence.  In my experience, people who are in a position to hire overwhelm themselves with too much data or information, and end up with decision paralysis. From what others have shared, it would seem this happens here occasionally. 

I don't see Upwork making any changes, so the best we can do is keep working to find clients who are a good match. 

[r_satta]

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Joan S wrote:

The biggest problem I have with Upwork is the feedback system. I would like to see them change it. My suggestions are to do away with private feedback and also do away with the 1 to 5 rating system. Both clients and freelancers could be allowed to leave written feedback that could be seen on both sides but with no numbers, which are sort of meaningless anyway. Does anyone have additional suggestions?

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Although I do agree the feedback system Upwork uses is outdated, I don't agree with your solution. 
What I mean, in particular, is that a 5 stars rating system just doesn't work. In a perfect world you should vote generically like this:

1. Very bad, job not completed you probably have to redo it with another freelancer
2. Bad, job completed but the quality is really lacking, still probably you have to redo it
3. Normal job, appropriate results, not astonishing, not bad at the point you have to redo it
4. Good job, communication skill, deadlines, money, all went better than expected, probably you'll work with the freelancer again
5. Incredibly good job, the FL completed the job ahead of schedule, gave suggestions, blahblah, you'll work with him/her again 100%

What happens in reality:

1. Bad/Really bad overlaps
2. Why should I use 2 if I can use 1, anyway it is bad?
3. There's no in between, either is bad (1) or either is good (4-5)
4. Let's say it was good, but not that really good as 5
5. Good job/perfect job overlaps

This is highly misleading, if you are familiar with Google Play Store's apps, anything below 4 is actually kinda bad/really bad (3.9 borderline case), anything above 4 is decent/good/really good. There's actually not that much distinction and the real votes you are gonna look at range from 4 to 5, instead from 1 to 5 that was meant to be. When I see a client with a score of 4, for example, I already start thinking that the client is not trustworthy and I have to think twice before sending a proposal. 4 or less is a no go zone for me, but if we compare it to a decimal scale it is 8 out of 10, it should be good enough.

[researchediting]

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Roberto S wrote:
....4 or less is a no go zone for me, but if we compare it to a decimal scale it is 8 out of 10, it should be good enough.

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Roberto, that was a superb/takedown breakdown of how people really use a 5-point rating scale.

Thinking of scales, it's worth pointing out again that, unlike say the "would recommend" metric, the JSS is not really a percentage. (Of what? "Success"? Give me a break.) It is an algorithmicially determined score on a 100-point scale.

It is a common and plausible belief here, that will never be confirmed by Upwork, that the JSS is based on the Net Promoter Score (NPS). I haven't looked up the NPS for a while, but I don't think it can be interpreted as a decimal/percentage. A score of 90 is likely the threshold for Top Rated because, if memory serves, that is the threshold for a "good" NPS.

[joansands]

Douglas: Here is an interesting article from Forbes about the NPS - and it recommends not using it for individuals:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/shephyken/2016/12/03/how-effective-is-net-promoter-score-nps/#2488ea8a2...

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Joan S wrote:

Douglas: Here is an interesting article from Forbes about the NPS - and it recommends not using it for individuals:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/shephyken/2016/12/03/how-effective-is-net-promoter-score-nps/#2488ea8a2...

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The article distinguishes between rating individual employees and rating a company based on one's overall experience. A freelancer is not an employee. In the context of capturing metrics to drive the JSS, from the client's perspective the freelancer is the company.

[petra_r]

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Phyllis G wrote:

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Joan S wrote:

Douglas: Here is an interesting article from Forbes about the NPS - and it recommends not using it for individuals:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/shephyken/2016/12/03/how-effective-is-net-promoter-score-nps/#2488ea8a2...

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The article distinguishes between rating individual employees and rating a company based on one's overall experience. A freelancer is not an employee. In the context of capturing metrics to drive the JSS, from the client's perspective the freelancer is the company.

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Exactly. To compare the two shows a fundamental lack of understanding the nature of running a business v being an employee.

I've just about had it with all the wailing where people insist that if they did not positively break their clients' business they deserve a 100% JSS.

Or "deserve" a lesson in how to do better next time.

Or that clients, who, after all, bring all (!!) the revenue except for the pittance for connects and memberships) should not have the chance to leave private feedback.

[joansands]

Upwork obviously needs clients. Without them, there would be no Upwork. However, all kinds of clients could bring all kinds of work to Upwork but, if there are no freelancers willing to do that work, there would be no Upwork. So, obviously, Upwork needs both clients and freelancers. Upwork has tons of freelancers but they don't have tons of clients, so, Upwork appears to be more interested in caring for clients rather than freelancers and that is the basis of what is bothering so many freelancers. I think that either Upwork has to find more clients on a regular basis or they need to disentangle themselves from some freelancers.

[joansands]

The definition of someone who freelances is to work for different companies at different times instead of being permanently employed by one company.

[melaniekhenson]

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Roberto S wrote:

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1.  

 a client with a score of 4, for example, I already start thinking that the client is not trustworthy and I have to think twice before sending a proposal. 4 or less is a no go zone for me, but if we compare it to a decimal scale it is 8 out of 10, it should be good enough.

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An 80% in most schools in the U.S. is only a C grade. What if the client or freelancer doesn't just want good enough? I don't think it's a case of "it should be good enough." I'm sure you don't have a contractor come in and put down tile in your bathroom that isn't beautiful but it's good enough, not totally terrible so you figure you should be happy about it. You probably want a little more than ordinary and not-very-bad, you know? 🙂

That's how I see it, anyway. Likewise, I feel most clients I've worked with have wanted much more than "good enough." Most people in general do. Just my $0.02. 🙂

[tlsanders]

The very last thing I would want to see them change would be private feedback, which is the only client feedback that offers any value whatsoever. I'd be game for killing off the gold stars, though.

[melaniekhenson]

FWIW: People think that if feedback were easier on them, they'd have a better chance at landing jobs here. What some may not be considering is that this would be true of everybody. In that case, we'd all be complaining that sub-par freelancers aren't dinged on their lack of abilities even though we're better freelancers. 😄

And competition would be even fiercer, since many more freelancers would appear, on the surface, at least passably professional, whether or not they actually were.

And yes, anyone might get a review s/he considers unfair in some way. But that does mean anyone. The playing field is already leveled. Beyond that we have to kick A on projects (including communication, deadlines and quality), do our due diligence on checking out potential clients, and be selective in the clients we approach. That's all of us. So really there's no "fair" or "unfair."