Sliding scale budgets

bannistercarl · ‎04-17-2019

Anybody else tired of scrolling through job posts with a budget of $10, $30 & $50, labeled "expert"? I'm not referring to logo updates, or quick picture edits. I'm talking about the projects asking to create a brand identity, or a magazine layout. Big, time consuming projects.

To be clear, Upwork is starting to feel like Fiverr...where cheap clients find cheap freelancers, but that's fine. Let the cheap ones work together. Although the cheap rate and cheap budget clients are killing the expert level, high cost freelancers on Upwork. Its always been that way in this field, but there has to be a way to filter out the cheap ones in my feed. I know the answer is just dont bid on those low budget jobs. That isnt enough though. Here is what I have found...

I click on a project labeled expert, the budget is a little lower than what I would charge, but the project is appealing. I talk with the client and come to find out they have no idea what the budget is for their project. That's the issue. Some clients simply do not know what to post as their fixed rate budget. How can Upwork provide pricing guidance to those clients looking for expert freelancers so the client can actually get expert freelancers to bid. I scroll past soooooo many projects that are appealing to me, but the budget is way too low. Come to find out the client has no idea what to post for a fixed rate budget sometimes. I have found this to be the case with many of my clients once I have talked with them. If I wouldn't have bid and had a meeting to explain my costs and services, I wouldn't be working with them today. How many more clients are doing the same thing? The problem is there are connects being used and proposals being sent to the same type of unbalanced projects with hope that the client does have a bigger budget, and sometimes not. Its exhausting filtering independently. Some clients just dont know what is appropriate to ask for in their post, so they dont get the accurate talent to help them.

florydev · ‎04-17-2019

I do not give the clients proposed budgets a lot of thought really. On hourly jobs I sometimes point out that my rate is probably higher if I think it makes sense from a pitch prospective, proactively addressing a concern. I have no problems with clients wanting to keep costs down, being frugal almost always makes sense. There are clients that are outright cheap, I am sure, and what I bid on their projects made them ignore me, and we are both happier because of it.

I once replied to a project on here where someone was asking to do something that was technologically unsound at best (I think it was outright impossible). They had received over 30 responses and judging by averages most of them were right around what they were looking for.

I came in about 10x what they were asking for. I said point blank that if no one in those 30 responses has brought up how what you want to do is a problem then we should talk. We did, the guy said he wanted to hire me but couldn't justify the expense to the money guys. He did go back and change his ad to basically do what I told him he would need to.

To me, this goes to the spirit of what I am trying to do. I am trying to help people. If I see something I know I can help on, that they could use me, I give them a proposal, even if I am pretty sure they would never choose me. I even offer to talk to them even if they know that can't afford to hire me. Do I think, as I did with that one guy, they would find way better value hiring me than someone who is just cheaper but cannot even see the pitfalls in what they are trying to do...sure, but I can't help what people's priorities and budgets are.

I just move on to the next.

cgottardo · ‎02-02-2021

I believe there must be more filters from upwork ,first of all. They must fix the lower rate in a way a professional doesn't feel humiliated. I'm fed up with proposal of 20$ for illustrations or 50$ for an illustrated book. Please,freelancers, when you scroll the job feed, give the feedback,too low budget, too unrealistic,etc, maybe upwork will understand we don't need to be humiliated.

tlbp · ‎02-02-2021

claudia g wrote:
I believe there must be more filters from upwork ,first of all. They must fix the lower rate in a way a professional doesn't feel humiliated. I'm fed up with proposal of 20$ for illustrations or 50$ for an illustrated book. Please,freelancers, when you scroll the job feed, give the feedback,too low budget, too unrealistic,etc, maybe upwork will understand we don't need to be humiliated.

Why do you care what strangers on the internet say about the fee they want to pay?

cgottardo · ‎02-02-2021

why not? don't you like to be considered more than "my cousin will do it for free" ? It's a job not a hobby.

lysis10 · ‎02-02-2021

I don't care about these things.

feed_my_eyes · ‎02-02-2021

claudia g wrote:
I believe there must be more filters from upwork ,first of all. They must fix the lower rate in a way a professional doesn't feel humiliated. I'm fed up with proposal of 20$ for illustrations or 50$ for an illustrated book. Please,freelancers, when you scroll the job feed, give the feedback,too low budget, too unrealistic,etc, maybe upwork will understand we don't need to be humiliated.

As long as freelancers are willing to work for low rates, clients will be able to get their work done for low rates. I notice that you haven't done a project for more than $50 yourself?

cgottardo · ‎02-02-2021

sure I did, because the client promised me more work after the first or because, and it's very rare, the client was just honest and nice and didn't treat me like **bleep**, I was naive and stupid. And if you look properly "my own business", you'll see I didn't work much afetr that because I don't want to sell my professional skills, matured in more than 20 years, for peanuts. Elance was way too professional, there weren't budget this low. would you excuse me if it's not written in perfect English, but as you can see , it's not my first language.

Good life!

lesw1223 · ‎02-02-2021

I'm in agreement. My hourly rate is much higher than most in my field and I also scroll past a lot of those jobs. If something catches my eye, I'll bid on it and let the client know that what they are asking will cost them X dollars with me. I'm also not afraid to let people know that they get what they pay for on Upwork. If they are looking for a quick job, sure, they can probably get it done for ten bucks. But if they are posting a job for which they are going to have to essentially turn over their entire database to someone, I encourage them to think about what they are actually doing and what they really want out of a freelancer.

I agree though, it IS annoying to have to spend our "connects" (that we pay for) to bid on jobs that may or may not be in our pay range, especially when the pay ranges don't mean much for most clients. A lot of them will just put an amount as a "placeholder" because, like you said, they have no clue what to charge. I do appreciate those that make a point to mention in their job post that they don't know what the going rate for XYZ is but they're willing to discuss.

semramichaels · ‎02-02-2021

Hi Carl,

Agreed. There has to be a better way to do this. As I am losing connects on this basis. There should be an expert level amount that starts at a certain rate and if it falls beneath that then the client shouldn't put up the ad in' expert.' I'm a write,r and a pitch deck expert, when I see "write a book for $10," I just laugh, there is so much work that goes into writing a novel, or a screenplay, it takes weeks, months and hours spent researching, developing and creating and then writing it. Who would do that for $10, not worth losing the connects for. Can this be fixed?

And how do you talk to the client without losing connects? Can't see their details to simply ask a question? There must be a chat section to speak to them before connecting and seeing if the project is worth it.

Semra

itecmedia · ‎05-06-2021

100% agreed.

Anybody looking for an "Expert" should not be allowed to insert a $10 budget because an Expert will not charge $10.

The sliding scale budgets should roughly correspond to industry hourly wage percentiles. Is that so difficult to do Upwork? You hurt your own reputation when you allow people to even think they can find an "Expert" to do x job for $10/hr ... and your hurt Experts who cannot easily filter mass amounts of users with ridiculous budgets.

To

prestonhunter · ‎05-06-2021

re: "Is that so difficult to do Upwork?"

It IS difficult.

I don't believe Upwork can do it successfully.

I don't even think I could do it successfully.

What is the minimum budget that should be allowed for a project for an expert-level data entry project?

What is the minimum budget that should be allowed for an expert-level database design project? What if it is database design for Oracle versus MySQL?

What is the minium budget or hourly rate that should be allowed when hiring for an expert-level writing project? Is it different if the writer is being asked to write a grant versus a blog post? What if the topic is cats? Should the minimum budget for an expert-level writer about cats be the same as for a writer about dogs? What if the topic is parrots?

petra_r · ‎05-06-2021

Anna G wrote:
The sliding scale budgets should roughly correspond to industry hourly wage percentiles.

In which country? Given that this is a global marketplace?

moonraker · ‎05-06-2021

Carl B wrote:
Although the cheap rate and cheap budget clients are killing the expert level, high cost freelancers on Upwork.

They are?

How?