So many SCAMS around

cf061dbc · ‎02-27-2022

Dear Upwork Community,

I have been waiting for some time to put this matter on to general discussion and get our voices heard ot the Upwork Team. It is already very difficult to get a job here. Thankfully, I managed to secure a couple so not complaining. However, I am starting to fed up of these fake accounts and scam job posts who are trying to steal our money and time. I have a good IT background so I know what might be a scam job post or not. This might not be the case for everyone and especially new bees who would be very excited and would do everything to get their first jobs here. I have seen so many scams in this past week that have the same job description and even they use same words when you send them a message. They direct people to their Telegram page. Here they ask freelancers to send insurance payments as security for not being able to fulfill the job on time. They also advise people that their payment methods are outside of Upwork. They even sent mallicious "job demo" links. This is not fair for freelancers because it does not feel secure here. This morning I have maybe 10 scam job descriptions. They are advertising on a job "PDF to word convert". I have seen one that has 43k of budget. I easily realize that there are scam and report them but some of them are very clever. Upwork must do something about this. The screening has to be done better. It will only get worse if you do not do anything on this.

Thanks,

Serhan

petra_r · ‎02-27-2022

Serhan K wrote:
They direct people to their Telegram page.

If freelancers did not violate Upwork's terms of service by communicating with a prospective client on Telegram (or anywhere else other than Upwork), they'd be perfectly safe from this (and almost every other) scam.

Serhan K wrote: I easily realize that there are scam and report them but some of them are very clever.

Really? They all require that the freelancer violates Upwork's terms of service in at least one way, usually two ways, and that the freelancer is not thinking clearly and isn't using common sense.

This is not fair for freelancers because it does not feel secure here.

All they have to do is follow two basic rules. 1) Don't communicate with prospective clients outside the platform and 2) Don't conduct or agree to conduct any financial transactions of any sort outside the platform.

It's hardly rocket science, but it seems that some people stick to the rules (and stay safe) and others decide to learn the hard way.

I actually agree that Upwork needs to get their act together as far as screening for the most common scams is concerned, as well as react WAY faster when something has been flagged, but ultimately the reason why those scammers are here in the first place is because the platform is unfortunately full of freelancers who happily violate the rules and then do stupid stuff.

People who fall for nonsense like those scams do so (basically, ultimately, by choice. Choice to violate the terms of service, choice to fail to educate themselves and choice of letting greed take over the brain).

cf061dbc · ‎02-27-2022

So you are basically saying that as long as people do not fall for it, it is okay to have hundreds of trash job posts on Upwork? You are exactly the reason why I did not want to post this because you are defensive. So you are basically blaming your freelancers for all those ads being here with 50k budget because they respond to those ads? Well done! This is the right approach. By responding to me as "Really?" you are basically accusing me of violating Upwork Terms and Conditions. Yes, I do realize it without even attempting to communicate with them outside of Upwork. If you cannot then you must test your IT knowledge. The way I greeted everyone and the way I am trying to form something constructive here but in return you are attacking me. This is not aligned with what I have seen as the embraced values when I first joined to this website. Thank you for being so polite to your clients.

petra_r · ‎02-28-2022

Serhan K wrote:
So you are basically saying that as long as people do not fall for it, it is okay to have hundreds of trash job posts on Upwork?

No, that isn't what I was saying. Maybe if you try to read it again I agreed that Upwork need to do more and react faster.

Serhan K wrote:
because you are defensive. So you are basically blaming your freelancers for all those ads being here

I am not "defensive" and those people are not "my freelancers"

Serhan K wrote:
By responding to me as "Really?" you are basically accusing me of violating Upwork Terms and Conditions.

Excuse me? Please read again. I was questioning how clever the scammers were.

Serhan K wrote:
you are attacking me.

I wasn't attacking you in the slightest.

Serhan K wrote: Thank you for being so polite to your clients.

You are not my client. What are you even talking about?

You do understand that I am a freelancer on Upwork, right?

cf061dbc · ‎02-28-2022

Even the way you are trying to re explain yourself is rude. Maybe you should go back and read what you wrote and more importantly the way you wrote it. If you are a frelancer and I see that you are an experienced one, keep that in mind that you were a new freelancer here once upon a time and be concious that there are people here who are just trying to build up their work. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

moonraker · ‎02-28-2022

Serhan K wrote:
So you are basically saying that as long as people do not fall for it, it is okay to have hundreds of trash job posts on Upwork? You are exactly the reason why I did not want to post this because you are defensive.

My irony meter just broke.

You strawman somebody (misrepresent what they say), in order to defend yourself, and accuse other people of being defensive.

Quite astonishing, really.

atlinguist · ‎02-28-2022

I agree.

Why is there no simple and effective way for UW to screen for job posts saying "Message me now on Telegram" (which seems to be a new trend in my area of the woods)?

Everything in our (i.e. freelancers') posts that goes against the TOS, such as email adresses, gets flagged immediately. I don't see why potential clients can't be made aware of the fact that messaging outside of the platform is strictly for AFTER a contract has been entered into. My concern is not about the scammers (whom I ignore), but I'd hate to lose the chance to offer my services to a real client who is simply unaware of the proper conduct on the platform.

feed_my_eyes · ‎02-28-2022

Alexandra H wrote:
My concern is not about the scammers (whom I ignore), but I'd hate to lose the chance to offer my services to a real client who is simply unaware of the proper conduct on the platform.

That's exactly why a blanket approach won't work. There ARE real clients who aren't aware of the rules, and when you tell them that communications have to be kept on Upwork, they're fine with it. Same with unverified clients - they aren't necessarily scammers, sometimes they're just new.

Alexandra H wrote:
I don't see why potential clients can't be made aware of the fact that messaging outside of the platform is strictly for AFTER a contract has been entered into.

Information and rules are available for anyone to read, the question is how do you force people to read them? Most new freelancers don't read them, either, which is how they fall for scams in the first place.

petra_r · ‎02-28-2022

Alexandra H wrote:
Everything in our (i.e. freelancers') posts that goes against the TOS, such as email adresses, gets flagged immediately.

I don't actually think it does anymore....

Alexandra H wrote:
Why is there no simple and effective way for UW to screen for job posts saying "Message me now on Telegram".

There is. It's just not employed (anymore).

PradeepH · ‎02-28-2022

Hi Serhan,

Thank you for your message. I am sorry to hear about your experience and how you feel about the same. While our team works hard to rid our workplace of all inappropriate jobs, we sometimes need to rely on your assistance to report anything suspicious.

Please read these tips for avoiding questionable jobs and working safely through Upwork. You can also read about Scam Prevention and how to report suspicious user activity. By doing so, it will send a notification to the relevant team to monitor the account and take the appropriate measures they deem necessary.

We do appreciate your effort in keeping the integrity, safety, and quality of the Upwork Marketplace. Feel free to message us if you need further assistance.

Thank you.

Pradeep

cf061dbc · ‎02-28-2022

Dear Pradeep,

Thank you very much for your response. This is a very kind and valuable response and surely what I expect from Upwork team. It is very nice to see that there are people around who do not call their freelancers "stupid" or being prejudiced and accusing them of violating terms. We are your clients here and just like how you advise us to behave to our customers, you should do the same at all times. I did not attack or call anyone stupid here. Just like you rely on us, we rely on you to protect us as well. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

Once again, thank you very much for your response and I will read through the documentation you shared.

Serhan

feed_my_eyes · ‎02-28-2022

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

I do think that Upwork should respond faster when jobs are flagged - there was a recent incident where people were flagging a particular type of job post and it took Upwork two days to remove it. They seem to have gotten a lot faster since then. But I'm not sure what they can do to prevent these jobs from being posted in the first place. Force clients to verify their payment methods? That doesn't work - some scammers do get verified. Block links? Scammers put them into a document and attach it to their post instead. Make a rule that you're not allowed to share contact information prior to a job being awarded? That doesn't work, because most newbies don't read anything and just plunge in. (And even when they ARE aware of the rule, you still see posts in the forum saying, "I know we're not supposed to contact clients on Telegram, but this client insisted!")

Scammers aren't going to go away as long as there are such rich pickings here; they'll just keep coming up with new and different scams. I and many others keep suggesting that Upwork should make freelancers pass a "readiness test" before they're allowed to join, and I still think that this would be the best way to address the problem. But it seems that Upwork doesn't want there to be any friction to absolutely anyone and everyone signing up here - whether they're freelancers or clients - so the only way to safely use this website is for everyone to be on their guard.

martina_plaschka · ‎02-28-2022

Believe me, if there was a way to do it, I would scream at new freelancers when they violate ToS by communicating outside of upwork. NO, DON'T DO IT! STOP! STOP NOW!

But no, they don't read the ToS, they jump right into it. It's like jumping into the pool without checking first if there's water in it. I feel less and less bad for people getting scammed when it is so incredibly easy to keep oneself safe.

wescowley · ‎02-28-2022

Serhan, I'm agreeing with Petra, Christine, and Martina here, but rather than type it all again, I'll just point to what I wrote when this came up six days ago:

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Upwork-needs-to-do-a-better-job-vetting-potential-client...

AndreaG · ‎02-28-2022

Hi all,

A few posts and replies to them have been removed from this thread as they were in violation of our Community Guidelines and values. We've been following this conversation and I'll close the thread to further replies since the arguments have been exhausted and the conversation is moving into an unproductive direction. I'd like to thank all participants for their valuable input.

~Andrea