So tired of these LOW bid rates - Page 2

irieislandgirl · ‎07-06-2019

I am SOOOO tired of Freelancers bidding low rates. It's not fair to the rest of us that have been on Upwork for many years and have built up some experience for these people to under cut us. I have read other discussions about people from some other countries possibly doing this as money goes a lot futher there, but that is NO excuse. I believe the bids should at least start at a living wage of $15.00 an hour. I wanted to bid on this job and several others but get this a lot. See photo attached. I have also seen other bids that look like this. Bid range - High- $9.00 / Avg- $5.16 / Low- $3.00

What are your thoughts?? Should Upwork change to a rule that bids can not be lower than a living wage?Upwork Low Bid 7-6-2019

tlsanders · ‎08-30-2019

Rocio G wrote:
Is there any way Upwork can code the system so that the lowest bid is not $3??? Is there any way Upwork can code the system so that the lowest bid is not $3???

Sure, they could. They chose not to. $3/hour is what they picked as a minimum.

dottomotion · ‎07-22-2019

Petra R wrote:
In your category, you can pretty much forget "Entry Level" job posts. They will never pay what you are worth and the freelancers who bid on them are not your competition, they are simply playing in a completely different market.

When you say "a living wage" then you have to remember that that differs dramatically from country to country.

Personally, I actually think your solution could be to up your rate rather than lower it, and specifically go for the higher level, well-paid contracts so you remove yourself from the pool of the cheap freelancers. You can't beat them on price, so you have to change your approach.

There are clients for every segment of the market, so position yourself in such a way that you appeal to the higher end. Personally, I think you have such a strong and appealing profile that your low price might actually work against you.

You might want to look to go up to $ 20 (my gut says $ 24.99 but that might be extreme in one go) and make a concerted effort to go aggressively after the high end, high priced contracts.

The ($$$) filter used to be useful to avoid ridiculous budget projects but now the clients can set $$$ and still put $5 as budget, so...

pudingstudio · ‎07-06-2019

Melinda M wrote:
I am SOOOO tired of Freelancers bidding low rates. It's not fair to the rest of us that have been on Upwork for many years and have built up some experience for these people to under cut us. I have read other discussions about people from some other countries possibly doing this as money goes a lot futher there, but that is NO excuse. I believe the bids should at least start at a living wage of $15.00 an hour. I wanted to bid on this job and several others but get this a lot. See photo attached. I have also seen other bids that look like this. Bid range - High- $9.00 / Avg- $5.16 / Low- $3.00
What are your thoughts?? Should Upwork change to a rule that bids can not be lower than a living wage?

Think that we all agree that too many freelancers are bidding low. They shouldn't. Hurts others, hurts themselves.
They will come back to this community and post something like 'I can't get any work, please help'.

Clients aren't that oblivious to the fact that they will get subpar work for a ridiculous amount of $.

When I know that particular project is right for ME, I send my proposal, don't care about 'high|average|low' range.
That works for me.

wendy_writes · ‎07-06-2019

Melinda, going forward on Petra's comments - add exec level key words in your title - rather than leading with "Virtual Solopreneur" try using terms that reflect the type of high level exec or entrepreneur you should be working with.

Re Rates: The more you value yourself, the more potential clients recognize your value.

tlbp · ‎07-06-2019

Melinda M wrote:
I am SOOOO tired of Freelancers bidding low rates. It's not fair to the rest of us that have been on Upwork for many years and have built up some experience for these people to under cut us.

But you should not have stayed static during that time. If you have years of experience, then that experience should give you skills that differentiate you from a new freelancer. If you don't, then you are doing something wrong. You should have stopped trying to compete on price a LONG time ago.

If Upwork set a minimum rate, clients would not immediately begin paying that rate, they would simply migrate to a platform that doesn't set a minimum. A client who wants to pay $3 an hour is going to find someone to work for $3 an hour. If you are charging $20, that client isn't going to hire you whether there are competing freelancers on the platform or not.

yitwail · ‎07-06-2019

Not much to add to all the excellent advice, but Upwork’s description of Entry level is “I am looking for freelancers with the lowest rates”, so don’t bid on those unless it’s for a really simple fixed price job.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

hanifonline · ‎07-09-2019

I am also facing lot of problems because of low bidders because now a days clients are also not going for experience and quality but they love the 1 digit bids. (Not all but some)

I get so frustrated and sometimes i do feel that i should also start doing this but still controlling myself and not compromising on the price. I hardly bid less than $50 but how long will i be able to control ?

And i don't think its because of the country they belong to. It is a cheap mindset they were brought up with. If i have to compete with a freelancer from USA they can never beat me in price because their living is more expensive but to be honest, they can also beat my price because i just don't compromise on quality of work and i always give a fair (usually higher if not highest) price.

Freelancing is not easy. We are not even sure what will we have in hands in end of the months. We should just not compromise on price and i think upwork should do something about this.

Even on other platforms things have become worst. They even allow $10 for a whole project which is not acceptable.

I know this post is too old to interact with but the issue is still valid and while i was here for the first time to post the same question, i thought i should just continue discussion here on this thread which is already available with same issue.

I think management of upwork should do something as they have already started new connects system which has also made things a bit hard and if low bidders are not going to be controlled then it will be very tough in near future.

rolludesig · ‎07-09-2019

bro actually upwork cant do anything about this.. freelancers who bid so low need to rethink, sorry to say but these freelancers have simply killed the beauty of freelancing which was an absolute pleasure 3-4 years back.

what upwork can do is atleast keep some budget limit for different experience levels so atleast $10 projects are not posted under expert experience level..

gaucho76 · ‎07-09-2019

Completely agree with you Rahul, I see things like

"UX expert to rebuild my entire business from the ground up". Level: Expert. Budget: $5

on a daily basis. Of course I ignore them, but it's insulting to the profession. And it's getting worse every day

EDIT:

point in case: do a search for UX. Just the first result:

And if you check teh task, they want 5 screens with Sketch and InVision in a few hours. This is something nobody would (should) charge under 200-300. Yet they pay 5 dollars per screen (minus UpWork 20% fee, you get a whooping 4 dollars per screen for expert work)

irieislandgirl · ‎07-10-2019

Here is another example. I do think Upwork should have a rule that you can not bid this low if you are bidding on an Expert level. Only in Entry level. This is NOT right whatsoever!

williambernal · ‎07-10-2019

In the past I regularly used the "Flag as Inappropriate" button to flag these jobs and then gently suggest/explain-

"This explains why there are only "Less than 5" bids after X amount of time."

Then requested-

"1. Please contact client regarding their professional intentions

2. Remove proposal and replace in appropriate Entry Level category"

Of course I should point out that this can become quite time consuming and, given Upwork's "Support" team commitment, I've never noticed any effective changes.

And in fact, as others here have correctly pointed out, the problem only seems to be getting worse.

But, as Expert Level does have a clear definition, this is a valid use of the "Flag as Inappropriate" option.

melaniekhenson · ‎07-21-2019

I've never really worried about this. No reasonable client is going to believe she'll get great work out of the most cut-rate freelancers, so if she's going for the barebones cheapest freelancer, she almost certainly isn't as picky about quality and therefore, she was never going to hire me anyway. A lack of incredibly cheap freelancers won't make her hire me, because she wants cheap. Some clients do, and that's up to them. I mean some clients want, for example, what amounts to a bunch of SEO on a page. Why would or should they pay more for that?

I didn't look at any image attachments but the first, but that one specifically said Entry Level. That client wants cheap-and-not-all-that-amazing and it's her right to want, and hire, at that level. If UW were going to institute some relatively high minimum (speaking globally) of, say, $15/hour, they wouldn't have Entry Level and the "Lowest Prices" description in the first place.

An entry level person bidding on an entry level job at entry level prices isn't undercutting anyone. The Entry Level designation suggests lower pay (that's not always the case, but it's up to the freelancer whether or not to spend connects on that chance). Another clue may be the average rate per hour. Again, that's imperfect but when I used to bid, if I saw a ridiculously low average hourly rate I'd usually keep scrolling. If you're feeling impatient and seeing only or mostly very low paying jobs/very low bids accepted, you may want to factor these in before spending your connects and your time. JMO.

7bb3a47b · ‎10-19-2020

How about 250?

honeyv · ‎07-22-2019

Clients want low bids - contractors seeking high rates.
Client are seeking negotiation on price thing. Can you tellme what should be do in that case, if it's not lowering the bid? What would be other way to win the bid??

researchediting · ‎07-22-2019

Honey V wrote:
Clients want low bids - contractors seeking high rates.
Client are seeking negotiation on price thing. Can you tellme what should be do in that case, if it's not lowering the bid? What would be other way to win the bid??

"Sorry, I don't negotiate rates. You have my best bid based on your stated requirements. If expense is an obstacle, we could consider narrowing the scope of the job. Otherwise, good luck finding a candidate who can meet your needs on your budget."

Oh, wait. You wanted to know how to win a bid with a client who undervalues your skills? Sorry, can't help you with that one.

honeyv · ‎07-23-2019

You can't take extreme position everytime, you're supposed to flexible enough if you want to win a bid. Win-lose bargaining while negotiating increase the probability of winning project and may be that can be turned into a long term project. You don't need to confused it with underestimation of your skills.

If you're rigid enough, got stuck to your higher rates - it'll be for sure don't let you win many big project and may miss long term relationships with clients.
e.g. for being flexible enough I've even got chance to work for 100$/hr in a project but that was 3-4 hrs. project , on the other I got chance to work on project with 10$/hr which turned into long-term project.

If you don't negotiate, you miss a lot of fun, reputations, new experience and long-term relationship. I think you'll lose more than what you gain while you stuck on your rates

tlsanders · ‎08-30-2019

Honey V wrote:
You can't take extreme position everytime, you're supposed to flexible enough if you want to win a bid.
This, I think, is where the flawed thinking comes in. I don't "want to win a bid." I want to see whether a project is a good fit for both me and the client and in both of our best interests to choose each other. if it's not for whatever reason, including that the client can't or won't pay y rate, then I don't want to win...I can't even see how it could be called "winning" to take on a job under circumstances I don't want, or that the client isn't entirely happy with.

Win-lose bargaining while negotiating increase the probability of winning project and may be that can be turned into a long term project. You don't need to confused it with underestimation of your skills.

If you're rigid enough, got stuck to your higher rates - it'll be for sure don't let you win many big project and may miss long term relationships with clients.

Which is fine. We all miss opportunities here and there because we're booked or on vacation or missed a posting or didn't answer the phone at the right time (and so on, and so on). Wouldn't you prefer to have long term relationships with clients who value your skills from the beginning and pay your rates than those who don't think you're worth your asking price or just have to push to see if they can get a better deal?

e.g. for being flexible enough I've even got chance to work for 100$/hr in a project but that was 3-4 hrs. project , on the other I got chance to work on project with 10$/hr which turned into long-term project.

But why would you want a long-term project at $10/hour if you can command much higher rates? Seems to me that getting locked into a long-term project at ridiculously low wages is a lot worse than doing a quick one-off at low rates...a long term project just goes on eating up time you could be devoting to looking for or working on better paying projects. The more hours you work, the more money you lose.

If you don't negotiate, you miss a lot of fun, reputations, new experience and long-term relationship. I think you'll lose more than what you gain while you stuck on your rates

Before you draw that conclusion, you should take a look at the profiles of some of the people telling you they don't negotiate.

tlsanders · ‎08-30-2019

Honey V wrote:
Clients want low bids - contractors seeking high rates.
Client are seeking negotiation on price thing. Can you tellme what should be do in that case, if it's not lowering the bid? What would be other way to win the bid??

If you're a skilled freelancer who offers high quality work, then the clients you are interested in working with aren't low bids--they're seeking quality work.

On the rare occasion that a client wants to negotiate rates with me, I tell them I understand if they need to hire a less expensive freelancer and let them decide whether they think it's worth their while to pay my rates or not.

joansands · ‎07-23-2020

Honey V - Look for a different client.

valery221166 · ‎07-23-2019

Pair of months before client contacted me, asking for the estimate. I made the estimate. He promised to contact me soon, but then I received message saying that my offer "declined by client" 🙂 As I understand, my "extremely high rates" were the matter.
It was so astonishing for me, top-rated pro to get such weird behaviour , that I decided to follow the destiny of this client and his project.
Below you see the screenshot, that says that he spent the estimated amount already and continue spending. He is extremely unsatisfied.
Conclusion is: problem are not cheap freelancers, problem are clients and their karma. They have to pass such lessons, and cheap freelancers are their teachers. Then, clients will understand the essence of life.
Unfortunately, nothing can help in this situation. Neither price policy of Upwork. Those teachers just will correct their rates.

**Edited for community guidelines**

wlyonsatl · ‎07-23-2019

It takes some people longer than others to figure out you get what you pay for.

melaniekhenson · ‎07-23-2019

Valery K wrote:
Pair of months before client contacted me, asking for the estimate. I made the estimate. He promised to contact me soon, but then I received message saying that my offer "declined by client" 🙂 As I understand, my "extremely high rates" were the matter.
It was so astonishing for me, top-rated pro to get such weird behaviour , that I decided to follow the destiny of this client and his project.
Below you see the screenshot, that says that he spent the estimated amount already and continue spending. He is extremely unsatisfied.
Conclusion is: problem are not cheap freelancers, problem are clients and their karma. They have to pass such lessons, and cheap freelancers are their teachers. Then, clients will understand the essence of life.
Unfortunately, nothing can help in this situation. Neither price policy of Upwork. Those teachers just will correct their rates.

**Edited for community guidelines**

I don't see it as karma, exactly. Not all business owners seek low rates because they're somehow bad or are trying to milk freelancers. Ads about platforms like this one always seem to hint, or outright state, that clients can get amazing work for extremely low rates.

It's no weirder that some clients believe this at first than it is that some freelancers believe the ads showing people in their pajamas in amazing million-dollar homes sipping coffee, petting the dog and pressing one button on the keyboard to make oodles of money freelancing.

It can be a learning curve from both sides of the project. And some clients don't want or need stellar work. Some just want a meh job done for their own reasons (in writing, they might simply want a bunch of SEO tossed onto their site in the hopes that will attract visitors, for example).

The clients who do want great work do quickly learn that it can't be had for pennies, generally. It's not a loss to you that you didn't land this job, and it's not karma for the client. It's just reality and a lesson for both of you. The client may pay more the next time, and you may realize there's no real benefit to watching the progress of a job you lost. What you did lose here was time and energy. Focus on the clients who want you. 🙂

JMO.

dottomotion · ‎07-23-2019

Valery K wrote:
Conclusion is: problem are not cheap freelancers, problem are clients and their karma. They have to pass such lessons, and cheap freelancers are their teachers. Then, clients will understand the essence of life.

This.

honeyv · ‎07-23-2019

I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but if you’re struggling to make decent money as a freelancer — it’s because you’re doing something wrong.

Trust me, there’s high-paying clients out there that’d love to work with you and they can be found anywhere (even Upwork)…

But unless you realize you have to make some changes first, then you’ll always be stuck in freelancer’s hell.

On the other hand, few clients are always tring to literally loot the freelancer. They came you with a job posting, ask for everything, ins and outs how a particular thing can be done - how you would do, using what techniques & finally when it comes for estimates - they suddenly disappear. It's more than half of their required work done during interview alone - they've got an overview of how things can be done and they can hire other freelancers at cheap rates to get it done. nd they've not paid you a single penny.

I face such client yesterday. Not sure what to do in that situation.

I think it all because of you're not offering them low rates.

tlbp · ‎07-23-2020

Honey V wrote:
I know this isn’t what you want to hear, but if you’re struggling to make decent money as a freelancer — it’s because you’re doing something wrong.
Trust me, there’s high-paying clients out there that’d love to work with you and they can be found anywhere (even Upwork)…
But unless you realize you have to make some changes first, then you’ll always be stuck in freelancer’s hell.

On the other hand, few clients are always tring to literally loot the freelancer. They came you with a job posting, ask for everything, ins and outs how a particular thing can be done - how you would do, using what techniques & finally when it comes for estimates - they suddenly disappear. It's more than half of their required work done during interview alone - they've got an overview of how things can be done and they can hire other freelancers at cheap rates to get it done. nd they've not paid you a single penny.

I face such client yesterday. Not sure what to do in that situation.

I think it all because of you're not offering them low rates.

Don't give away your advice for free. You are not obligated to continue an interview with anyone. Say, "I don't think I'm a good fit for your project" and exit.

lucioric · ‎02-13-2020

Also, some clients wants to pay quantities that are not for a living. $50 per week is not enough in Mexico. I don't know if in some countries it is a decent amount for a living.

lucioric · ‎02-13-2020

Aah, by hour. Well it ends up being which I use to earn (now), if for exemple I have a $100 fixed price milestone but that ends up taking 3 weeks to complete.

Also, landing an hourly contract with enough hours is as easy as finding a golden ring in the floor in the street downtown. One time, in a rage, I inscribed to pph, but it is not better. Seems that freelancers are condemned to half of the time not genereating enough money for a living.