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ksrinirao
Community Member

Some Unfair Practices of Clients and Upwork

Hi,

 

I have joined the Upwork team during April 2020 and I would like to put forward some issues which I feel unfair towards freelancers.

 

  • During the last two months, I have applied for 30+ jobs and I could not succeed in a single bid despite being lowest on the bid value.  Surprisingly, when I checked the past jobs of the same clients, I found that same jobs have been awarded to other freelancers with highest bid values.(Eg: There was a job posting wherein client clearly indicated that around 5 hours of data entry is to be done and the bid value is $30.  I have placed my bid for $15 with a timeline of 10 Minutes for completing the job.  Unfortunately I could not succeed in winning the bid but the same job was awarded to another freelancer for $30.)

 

  • The jobs posted by most of the clients seems to be just for consuming the freelancers’ connects rather than considering their bids.  While posting the jobs, these clients are sending invites to their preferred freelancers who had already worked with them, and most of these jobs are awarded to one of those invitees.  This is truly unfair practice which Upwork has to review.  If the client really wants to go with their preferred freelancers, then they need not post the job for the public.  This, at least, saves the connects of the freelancers which are not free these days.

 

  • Another issue which needs serious attention of Upwork is the “highly inaccurate search” of freelancers/Agencies database.  (Eg: When I type Excel Expert Chennai, it is showing the mobile app developers and other software developers profiles of other countries.  I tried most of the options, but the results are nowhere near the topic/location I searched). This might be the reason for clients to work with their preferred/past freelancers rather than searching for the right option.  However, I feel, the clients should also consider the bids placed by the other freelancers on the job postings. 

 

If Upwork is providing free connects or making the process of placing the bids free then all the above looks bit fair, but definitely not with the paid connects.  Hope Upwork team work on the above and make the platform more effective to create a win-win situation for everyone.

 

Regards

KS Rao

14 REPLIES 14
petra_r
Community Member


Srinivasa Rao K wrote:

I would like to put forward some issues which I feel unfair towards freelancers.

 

  • Surprisingly, when I checked the past jobs of the same clients, I found that same jobs have been awarded to other freelancers with highest bid values.(Eg: There was a job posting wherein client clearly indicated that around 5 hours of data entry is to be done and the bid value is $30.  I have placed my bid for $15 with a timeline of 10 Minutes for completing the job.  Unfortunately I could not succeed in winning the bid but the same job was awarded to another freelancer for $30.)

 


What's unfair about that? Good clients don't go for the cheapest bid. This is not some kind of reverse ebay, you know? Did you think "the lowest bid wins"?

 


Srinivasa Rao K wrote:

 

  • While posting the jobs, these clients are sending invites to their preferred freelancers who had already worked with them, and most of these jobs are awarded to one of those invitees. 

How would you know that the client hired someone they invited? (You wouldn't)

 


When the client is clearly asking for the freelancers with the lowest rates, we have to keep that in mind and consider it obviously.  I think we have to discuss about the issues that I said unfair.

 

For your second query, if you research, you will easily find which freelancer got the job and whether he has already worked with that employer in previous projects, etc.


For your second query, if you research, you will easily find which freelancer got the job and whether he has already worked with that employer in previous projects, etc.


And?

That has absolutely nothing to do with invites.

 


When the client is clearly asking for the freelancers with the lowest rates, we have to keep that in mind and consider it obviously.  I think we have to discuss about the issues that I said unfair.


Oh I do "consider it" by not applying to such jobs.

Problem solved.

Obviously

florydev
Community Member

It isn't who bids soonest, it isn't who bids cheapest, it is who bids best.

 

Look for projects where you know how to do the work and then explain to the client how you can do it better than anyone else.  Don't be cheap, but ask for the value you deserve.

Best is in the delivery, not in the Bid.  When the client is clearly asking for the freelancers with the lowest rates, we have to keep that in mind and consider it obvisouly.

"Obviously"

Well you now have 3 successful freelancers telling you that bidding the lowest is not a successful strategy with all clients (or even most clients). So, do you want to believe your opinion based in 2 months of experience on Upwork or 3 successful freelancers who've been here doe years? Bidding first or lowest are not the most important things. That's only a race to the bottom. It IS about who bids BEST, not lowest or fastest. There are multiple factors within your proposal that make it best or worse, and it's not just price or speed.
martina_plaschka
Community Member

I don't think bidding the lowest was what kicked you out of consideration, but rather that you offered to finish a task that the client expected to take 5 hours in 10 minutes. That would seem inplausible to a serious client. 

Clients can choose 3 levels of expertise. "I am looking for a freelancer with the lowest rate" does (obviously) not mean that the client will hire the lowest bidder, it just means that that is a client that wants to spend little money, but he will still care about quality (obviously).

So, in short, you need to rethink your approach to win serious clients. 

vpdweb
Community Member

Don't forget the fact that freelancers from tier 3 (3rd world countries) rarely get hired for high profile jobs. Change your name and your location and you start getting those gigs you never used to get. True story.
rverang
Community Member


Victor P wrote:
Don't forget the fact that freelancers from tier 3 (3rd world countries) rarely get hired for high profile jobs. Change your name and your location and you start getting those gigs you never used to get. True story.

You don't mean pretending to be someone and somewhere else, right?

re: "Change your name and your location and you start getting those gigs you never used to get."

 

re: "You don't mean pretending to be someone and somewhere else, right?"

 

Renante:

If a person changes their name, they are not pretending to be someone else. They are changing their name. If a person changes their name legally, they are expected to use their new legal name on Upwork.

 

Same thing if they move. They are supposed to update their profile location. Moving from one place to another place doesn't mean they are pretending to be somebody else.


Preston H wrote:

re: "Change your name and your location and you start getting those gigs you never used to get."

 

re: "You don't mean pretending to be someone and somewhere else, right?"

 

Renante:

If a person changes their name, they are not pretending to be someone else.

 

Same thing if they move. 


That isn't what they meant and I am fairly sure you are well aware of that. If you are not well aware of that: They meant "Lie about who and where they are". Obviously.

The person who said it... his profile says he lives in Kenya.

I believe that he genuinely does live in Kenya.


If he wants to clarify what he meant, he is welcome to do so.

 

Obviously Upwork's rules are clear that freelancers are required to present accurate information about their current location and current legal name.

vpdweb
Community Member

Yes, I mean exactly that. I know people who never used to get the jobs they
wanted but after they changed their names and locations these jobs started
streaming in. Go figure. And in case you think I'm one of those people then
don't. I'm as authentic as they come.
kinector
Community Member


Srinivasa Rao K wrote:

Hi,

 

I have joined the Upwork team during April 2020 and I would like to put forward some issues which I feel unfair towards freelancers.

 

  • During the last two months, I have applied for 30+ jobs and I could not succeed in a single bid despite being lowest on the bid value.  Surprisingly, when I checked the past jobs of the same clients, I found that same jobs have been awarded to other freelancers with highest bid values.(Eg: There was a job posting wherein client clearly indicated that around 5 hours of data entry is to be done and the bid value is $30.  I have placed my bid for $15 with a timeline of 10 Minutes for completing the job.  Unfortunately I could not succeed in winning the bid but the same job was awarded to another freelancer for $30.)

 

  • The jobs posted by most of the clients seems to be just for consuming the freelancers’ connects rather than considering their bids.  While posting the jobs, these clients are sending invites to their preferred freelancers who had already worked with them, and most of these jobs are awarded to one of those invitees.  This is truly unfair practice which Upwork has to review.  If the client really wants to go with their preferred freelancers, then they need not post the job for the public.  This, at least, saves the connects of the freelancers which are not free these days.

 

  • Another issue which needs serious attention of Upwork is the “highly inaccurate search” of freelancers/Agencies database.  (Eg: When I type Excel Expert Chennai, it is showing the mobile app developers and other software developers profiles of other countries.  I tried most of the options, but the results are nowhere near the topic/location I searched). This might be the reason for clients to work with their preferred/past freelancers rather than searching for the right option.  However, I feel, the clients should also consider the bids placed by the other freelancers on the job postings. 

 

If Upwork is providing free connects or making the process of placing the bids free then all the above looks bit fair, but definitely not with the paid connects.  Hope Upwork team work on the above and make the platform more effective to create a win-win situation for everyone.

 

Regards

KS Rao


Mr. Rao. Here's my humble attempt to clarify why you're not being successful yet on this platform. I try to reply point by point. 

 
1) With good clients it's rarely the question of being the cheapest guy. In many cases, being the cheapest guy you look like the most desperate guy. The guy who is going to do anything for any amount of money. The good clients you would hope to get won't hire those kinds of people. Different clients have different criteria, so you just need to know by which criteria you can compete with the rest of the world. Avoid playing the who-is-the-cheapest-guy altogether and you'll do fine. Provide additional value than requested by your clients instead. 
 
You need to be the best match according to the criteria you ASSUME the client actually has. And not all are mentioned in the job description, so you need a little bit of effort in figuring it out for EACH client separately. Sometimes even guessing works if the info available is limited.
 
2) There's nothing unfair about the invitations. The system is pretty simple and it works just fine. As a client, I may send an invitation to someone I hired earlier. Many times I do that! Yet, if someone EVEN BETTER sends a proposal too, I'm sure to hire that guy instead! Why should I settle for the guy I know instead of the best guy available? Particularly when this is a GLOBAL talent site. If I know my project requires the guy I hire earlier in particular (e.g. continue something that was started earlier), I make a project with Invitation Only so absolutely nobody can even see the job except my guy.
 
3) As a freelancer, you're in the global marketplace. It is good to understand what it means. Understand the nature of globalization. Who wants a guy particularly from Chennai? I suppose Bengaluru is more well-known, especially for IT. Even if Upwork makes your feature request a reality, I am 100% sure you wouldn't see any practical impact of it on your business. (Told by a guy who makes VR training simulators while based in Malaysia... NOBODY hires me because of my location, I can tell you that!)
 
So, I'd say most of the things you complain about are irrelevant to your business goals that I assume you have here. Better to learn how freelancing and global competition work in general first, then make your future here. Then reassess your strategy and short-term tactics and first of all specify a niche that you're truly good at and has little competition. Then you can shine like the sun! True experts can make it globally whereas the "cheapest guys" are always in the race to the bottom. There's always someone more desperate than you just to get a project done for less than a peanuts pay. Don't go that way. It's not good for you in the short or the long term. Also, it cannibalizes the entire platform.
 
Hope this helps at least a little. Good luck and all the best!
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