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Storing cover letters and other standard writings

Ace Contributor
Todor V Member Since: Aug 19, 2015
11 of 20

@Preston H wrote:

.... But if you need to use templates, there are about a million ways you could do, including just saving text in an email message draft in the email software you use.


 Hi Preston,

 

I know that there are other ways, I simply want to have it on the website so when I get connected I can use all the needed resources. 

 

It is a functionality that makes life easear, and we are the clients of Upwork (it get paid from us). So probably it should listen to our suggestions.  

 

The question is, if you are asked, would you support such suggestion or not? By the way, you can still write fresh letters for each job posting, and stand out of the crowd.

 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
12 of 20

re: "It is a functionality that makes life easear, and we are the clients of Upwork (it get paid from us). So probably it should listen to our suggestions."

 

This is a common misperception.

 

Contractors are not the clients or customers of Upwork. Not really.

 

Contractors are the product that Upwork provides to its true clients... The clients whose credit cards are charged for our services. It is more accurate to think of contractors as Upwork's product, or as Upwork's partners in making money.

 

Upwork is not paid by contractors. Not really. The membership thing is a red herring. Upwork would just as soon do away with it but it serves a purpose in placating some contractors.

 

For the most part, contractors DO NOT PAY Upwork. The ten percent fee is paid by clients. Your credit card is never charged. That money only exists because of Upwork facilitating clients finding and paying contractors.

 

It does not really matter what marketers or lawyers or invoices say, the true clients of Upwork are the clients.

 

This does not mean that Upwork shouldn't try to make contractors happy, because attracting and retaining good contractors helps Upwork please paying clients. But I don't want to be Upwork's target customer, because that would mean they try to upsell me and make money directly from me rather than make money by attracting clients who pay me. And that would be bad. That is the business model of Freelancer.com, and it definitely does not benefit the contractors.

 

So to bring this back home to the subject of saving cover letter templates... This is not going to happen because Upwork perceives this as a benefit to Contractors, who are not Upwork's customers, which would be a detriment to clients, who ARE Upwork's customers.

 

This makes no sense if you understand Upwork's business model.

Ace Contributor
Todor V Member Since: Aug 19, 2015
13 of 20

@Preston H wrote:

 

So to bring this back home to the subject of saving cover letter templates... This is not going to happen because Upwork perceives this as a benefit to Contractors, who are not Upwork's customers, which would be a detriment to clients, who ARE Upwork's customers.

 


 

Dear Preston, the questions I posted to you is very clear: what is your opinion, would you support the functionality to store cover letters. Not what you think the Upwork perceives or does, or who are clients or not. 

 

 

 

 

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
14 of 20

Todor, the feature you request would deteriorate the quality of the client experience and therefore cause clients to be less likely to return to Upwork and refer it to others. Fewer clients means less money for contractors. Therefore I would not support the creation of the feature you suggest.

 

The most important feature on Upwork is the presence of clients willing to pay me money. Everything else pales in importance.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
15 of 20

re: "And where exactly is this information listed? Where exactly can I read, in the help section or the terms and conditions, about this algorithm and about this candidate list?"

 

Luis,

It is not NECESSARY for you to have all this undocumented information.

 

But those of us who know this information DO have an advantage over those those who do not.

 

if you really want to break through to the next level of Upwork awareness, then you'll want to create a client profile on your Upwork account. (DO NOT CREATE A NEW account. You will use your REGULAR, EXISTING Upwork username and password, log into your Upwork account, and activate a client profile.)

 

Then post a couple small jobs, hire contractors, let them finish the work, pay them, close the contracts. Then you will have more knowledge about the client experience.

 

Aside from that, you can read the Upwork user manual and Upwork help section files. But not everything is documented there. Aside from that, you can read through the Community Forum threads. There are thousands of pages of threads in the Forum and massive amounts of information here. Much of it is helpful and a good deal of it is accurate.

Ace Contributor
Luis C Member Since: Mar 10, 2012
16 of 20

@Preston H wrote:

re: "And where exactly is this information listed? Where exactly can I read, in the help section or the terms and conditions, about this algorithm and about this candidate list?"

 

Luis,

It is not NECESSARY for you to have all this undocumented information.

 

But those of us who know this information DO have an advantage over those those who do not.

 

if you really want to break through to the next level of Upwork awareness, then you'll want to create a client profile on your Upwork account. (DO NOT CREATE A NEW account. You will use your REGULAR, EXISTING Upwork username and password, log into your Upwork account, and activate a client profile.)

 

Then post a couple small jobs, hire contractors, let them finish the work, pay them, close the contracts. Then you will have more knowledge about the client experience.

 

Aside from that, you can read the Upwork user manual and Upwork help section files. But not everything is documented there. Aside from that, you can read through the Community Forum threads. There are thousands of pages of threads in the Forum and massive amounts of information here. Much of it is helpful and a good deal of it is accurate.




Thanks for your reply. I guess it's just the nature of this place to be completely opaque. I also liked your reply to Tudor, Upwork's customers are the paying clients, we're just some sort of convenient cannon fodder. At least that's how I've been feeling with the way the platform has been "working" lately.
Ace Contributor
Todor V Member Since: Aug 19, 2015
17 of 20

Upwork is a marketplace, and sure the clients are the once that bring money to it. But as every marketplace, it should cater to the needs of the two parts of the equation. If Preston is unhappy with how freelancer.com works, probably other freelancers will be unhappy too and will vote with their foots. And if there are no good freelancers, there will be no good clients, and the network effect will work in negative direction.

 

Probably Upwork has all these algorithms to avoid the usage of standard cover letters, but I have and above average response to my applications....the problem is with when it comes to the price Smiley Happy

 

Ace Contributor
Todor V Member Since: Aug 19, 2015
18 of 20

 

If we exclude some postings that probably are intended for other discussion topics, I see no way for a standard cover letter to make the clients go to another place. I guess most of the freelancers use the same generic cover letter and answers to the generic questions simply because the the job postings, in most of the cases, are not very specific (at least in my field). I landed good projects and good clients with the same letter - and the clients feedback on my application and work shows no regret for their decision.

 

We are using standard writings for standard prostings; the only differences is the ease with which we can do it.

 

And nobody has provided up to now even a lsight identification of how these "standard" cover letters may impair the interests of the potential clients. It would be good if somebody could explain why there should be a policy to avoid the same reply to a posting like "I need a business plan /pitch deck for investors in my start up"....or "I need a logo for my company" 

Ace Contributor
Luis C Member Since: Mar 10, 2012
19 of 20

@Todor V wrote:

 

If we exclude some postings that probably are intended for other discussion topics, I see no way for a standard cover letter to make the clients go to another place. I guess most of the freelancers use the same generic cover letter and answers to the generic questions simply because the the job postings, in most of the cases, are not very specific (at least in my field). I landed good projects and good clients with the same letter - and the clients feedback on my application and work shows no regret for their decision.

 

We are using standard writings for standard prostings; the only differences is the ease with which we can do it.

 

And nobody has provided up to now even a lsight identification of how these "standard" cover letters may impair the interests of the potential clients. It would be good if somebody could explain why there should be a policy to avoid the same reply to a posting like "I need a business plan /pitch deck for investors in my start up"....or "I need a logo for my company" 


My guess is that such postings are the overwhelming majority of replies circulating in this site, hence the need for such measures. Of course I don't agree that such measures are a solution to the problem, they're a band-aid at best, and I agree with you that standard cover letters should be allowed.

 

A simple example, what if you're excellent at some mathematical area of work, but really bad at writing? Should you be penalized for having a standard text to send? Should you send a rather hard to read message, and put yourself at disadvantage, to comply with policies?
Of course none of this talk will help a single bit, they'll just carry on with their ideas and ignore us.

Ace Contributor
Todor V Member Since: Aug 19, 2015
20 of 20

Probably we have to give it a thought also on who are the clients of Upwork. The first thing is that it is a marketplace, and as such has to offer excellent service and provide value added to both sides. So there is a network effect on both sides of the equation, and you could almost interchangably decide that one or another side is the client.

 

The second criteria is who pays Upwork and for what. For example, in a real estate brokarege, although the client bring the money, the seller is paying to the broker, not the buyer. And the seller is the client. The same is on Upwork - you pay Upwork for finding you clients. Of course, one can decide that Upwork offers a good service to the clients - but this is what they are paid for.

 

Otherwise it should charge the clients for whatever service it provides; directly them, not the freelancers. Go to a supermarket and you will see that the clients are the people - they pay to the supermarket for the broad selection, for the quality, or for whatever reason they go to this supermarket. And the supermarket buys from the suppliers and resells to its clients. I have no problem if Upwork wants to subcontract me for doing work for its clients - but this is not the case. It is me putting the face and assuming the responsibility for providing the service, not Upwork. 

 

Upwork is intermediary, not service provider itself, and should have it very clear where the money comes from. Like in every marketplace, it is paid by the sellers for bringing good clients. 

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