Suggested Unfair JSS Profile Verbiage

[#1]

Hope this helps other freelancers who have truly been the victims of the UW private-client-feedback JSS problem.  

"MY 75% JSS: It Pains me to have to explain my recent 75% JSS score, I should not have to do so. UW allows clients to provide public feedback (which in the case of the "Writing Project" below shows a 4.55 out of 5.0 score), but to privately complain about a freelancer (which I can only presume this client did - UW won't tell me because the feedback is "private"). Freelancers are unable to know which client privately marks us down, but we are also unable to know what the exact criticism states - so we can address legitimate deficiencies. This practice is unpopular among the freelance community on Upwork, for good reason: it is sneaky, unethical and harmful to honest professionals on this platform. Please consider my other top-rated - and true-faced - client responses to my high-quality, professional work: it is a better measure of what you can expect vs what Upwork's notoriously questionable JSS will show.

[#2]

Unreasonable feedback that destroys your JSS is terrible, but there is probably no solution to this problem. Even if all feedback was public, clients might not be any more complimentary about freelancers who have done jobs for them. If freelancers had the right to make Upwork change or remove any feedback they believed to be unreasonable, the site would implode with the avalanche of complaints and demands for redress. 

The best way to look at it is to see freelancing as a business, where you have to assess clients before you start a contract, and learn how to cope with those clients who show signs of being impossible to please. In the latter case, the best option might be to cut short the contract - the less money that's paid out, the smaller the impact of bad feedback on JSS.

[#3]

I think that any client who would leave really horrible and mean feedback would probably love it if it were made public.

[#4]

Then why would the not make it public? 

[#5]

Because that would mean a client could publicly humilate the freelancer.

[#6]

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Peter G wrote:

Because that would mean a client could publicly humilate the freelancer.

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Clients do sometimes publicly give negative reviews. My feeling is that some clients don't want to be harassed after the fact. So they privately give much more accurate feedback, but are less critical with the written review.

[#7]

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Mark K wrote:

Then why would the not make it public? 

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They can. Clients do give negative public reviews.

[#8]

I just wanted to say that it's quite interesting seeing Community Gurus debating on JSS and clients' feedback. I'm here to read the various perspectives and opinions. 

But one thing I know for certain is that some of the negative private feedback from clients' are truly ingenuine. If you know you're not okay with the freelancer's work, say it to their face and not go behind to drop negative feedback. That's being cowardly. And some are truly deserved. On the other hand, I see some clients mixing their personal life with their work-life, thus, transferring their personal life aggression to freelancers. I had a client that left negative feedback for me and later returned to apologize. He categorically told me that the negative back he left for me was unfair and that I deserved more. That I did a very good job but he was going through a rough time in his personal life and he let it get to his work life.

In my experience, that's just one instance of why a client would leave negative feedback. The question still pending for answer is, when such clients returned to apologize for the negative feedback they dropped, why is UW not leaving such feedback from affecting JSS? 

[#9]

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David S wrote:

I just wanted to say that it's quite interesting seeing Community Gurus debating on JSS and clients' feedback. I'm here to read the various perspectives and opinions. 

But one thing I know for certain is that some of the negative private feedback from clients' are truly ingenuine. If you know you're not okay with the freelancer's work, say it to their face and not go behind to drop negative feedback. That's being cowardly. And some are truly deserved. On the other hand, I see some clients mixing their personal life with their work-life, thus, transferring their personal life aggression to freelancers. I had a client that left negative feedback for me and later returned to apologize. He categorically told me that the negative back he left for me was unfair and that I deserved more. That I did a very good job but he was going through a rough time in his personal life and he let it get to his work life.

In my experience, that's just one instance of why a client would leave negative feedback. The question still pending for answer is, when such clients returned to apologize for the negative feedback they dropped, why is UW not leaving such feedback from affecting JSS? 

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The situation you describe is pretty rare. Clients don't come to Upwork eagerly seeking freelancers to abuse in order to take out their aggressions due to a miserable home life. They come to Upwork to get a job done.

Because every so often a job really can go sideways and it might not be the freelancer's fault, there is the perk of removing one feedback every three months/10 jobs. That's quite a bit of work, usually, so it really is for people who solidly do a good job under normal circumstances.

To be honest, the only times I've heard so far of clients saying they made a "mistake" on low private feedback was when the freelancer guessed it was that specific client by process of elimination and then pursued the client. The client then obviously felt cornered and awkward and said "oh, it was a mistske." What was he or she supposed to say?

This sort of thing is in fact they there is private feedback...because clients just want to be rid if freelancers with whom things didn't go well, but some freelancers will come back demanding an explanation.

This may not be your situation but again, if a client really did just take his life out on you and came back entirely of his own accord to apologize for his feedback, that's the exception, not the rule.

[#10]

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Melanie H wrote:

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David S wrote:

I just wanted to say that it's quite interesting seeing Community Gurus debating on JSS and clients' feedback. I'm here to read the various perspectives and opinions. 

But one thing I know for certain is that some of the negative private feedback from clients' are truly ingenuine. If you know you're not okay with the freelancer's work, say it to their face and not go behind to drop negative feedback. That's being cowardly. And some are truly deserved. On the other hand, I see some clients mixing their personal life with their work-life, thus, transferring their personal life aggression to freelancers. I had a client that left negative feedback for me and later returned to apologize. He categorically told me that the negative back he left for me was unfair and that I deserved more. That I did a very good job but he was going through a rough time in his personal life and he let it get to his work life.

In my experience, that's just one instance of why a client would leave negative feedback. The question still pending for answer is, when such clients returned to apologize for the negative feedback they dropped, why is UW not leaving such feedback from affecting JSS? 

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The situation you describe is pretty rare. Clients don't come to Upwork eagerly seeking freelancers to abuse in order to take out their aggressions due to a miserable home life. They come to Upwork to get a job done.

Because every so often a job really can go sideways and it might not be the freelancer's fault, there is the perk of removing one feedback every three months/10 jobs. That's quite a bit of work, usually, so it really is for people who solidly do a good job under normal circumstances.

To be honest, the only times I've heard so far of clients saying they made a "mistake" on low private feedback was when the freelancer guessed it was that specific client by process of elimination and then pursued the client. The client then obviously felt cornered and awkward and said "oh, it was a mistske." What was he or she supposed to say?

This sort of thing is in fact they there is private feedback...because clients just want to be rid if freelancers with whom things didn't go well, but some freelancers will come back demanding an explanation.

This may not be your situation but again, if a client really did just take his life out on you and came back entirely of his own accord to apologize for his feedback, that's the exception, not the rule.

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why* of* mistake*   Ugh. That was a grammar train wreck and I came back too late to edit.

[#11]

Silly freelancers - demanding to know the reason clients weren't fully satisfied ... who do they think they are, professional or something!

BTW, that "perk" is reserved for top-rated freelancers to, as I say, "manipulate" their JSS and their Profile to make themselves appear perfect -- which, in turn, makes their prestine 5.0 meaningless.  Meaningless: one of the excuses UW suggests is at the root of the secret-feedback mechanism... clients leaving 5.0s without thought or consideration...thus rendering the JSS meaningless. 

Do you see it? The hypocrisy? 

[#12]

Melanie, the scenario I described isn't rare and I never said clients come to UW looking for freelancers to abuse or take out their aggression on them. 

I am saying there are clients that do mix their personal life with their work life. I have seen this severally, you just happened not to have met anyone.  I am telling you what happened to me. The client and I went into dispute. After the dispute, the client told me the whole dispute thing was meaningless and ended up paying the complete $$ for the job. Before the dispute, he has already dropped negative feedback. My JSS dropped from 98 to 69, because the contract sum was very high. 

After the dispute, I went to UW chat support and share a screenshot of the client's apology. Chat support says there's nothing they can do. The negative feedback was intentional. Why would the client return and apologised?  So what do you have to say about that?

[#13]

That is one possible solution Robert, I agree.  The system of feedback - for a global talent/work platform - is certainly complicated, and no perfect solution exists to be sure.  I have read JSS complaints for as long as UW has been a platform, suggesting that the systems won't please everyone all of the time.  And, I have had two bad marks from clients in my UW 'career' - one public and one .... well let's just call it what it is: a two-faced, behind-your-back private slam by an equally two-faced individual allowed by a questionable feedback mechanism.

I liken it to any professional feedback from employer to employee for example.   If your manager tells you that you are not performing well, you will most certainly expect - and rightfully demand - that they tell you why, with specific examples of substandard effort and results.   Would any right-minded employee allow their manager to say that someone in the company - or a client of the company - privately complained, but I cant say who it was or what they said - but here: I need to write you up and place you on probation?  No.

Business is all-the-more transparent b/c the client relationship is at the core of the revenue stream.  I, the business owner would never allow a client to suggest they won't hire me again but not tell me why - it they did, I would immediately dismiss their suggestion - to their face?  Or worse, to go into a community of my other clients and competitors to report that i am substandard amongst my clientele, but not say to which client they mean, or to what standard I did not meet.  That would likely lead to litigation.

Why should Upwork freelancers accept the same sort of treatment at the hands of UW - who, by the way, makes the majority of their revenue from freelancers' fees.   What crazy world have they invented by allowing clients to privately complain about the talent that generates their revenue; and then withold the name of the client and their specific complain !!!!   I'm really flabberghasted by it. 

[#14]

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Mark K wrote: UW - who, by the way, makes the majority of their revenue from freelancers' fees. 

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Virtually *all* the revenue comes from clients. (Everything apart from freelancer memberships and connects).

Yes, "on paper" the freelancer pays the fee, but that's just marketing, as all of that money comes straight out of the client's pocket.

[#15]

I see your point Petra - the client is the ultimate source of the $, but then we earn it from the client, which makes it our $, and from our $, we pay Upwork.  That is my understanding of how it works - and that it is different than a temp agency, which is paid by the client, i.e. the proportion is invisible to the worker. 

To make my point more .... accurate, I pulled this from Upwork's Form 10-K, dated Feb 15, 2022, page 2, "Overview". 

"We generate revenue from both talent and clients, with a majority of our revenue generated from service fees charged to talent for access to our work marketplace. We also
generate revenue from fees charged to both clients and talent for other services, such as for transacting payments through our work marketplace, premium offerings, purchases of
“Connects” (virtual tokens that allow talent to bid on projects on our work marketplace), foreign currency exchange when clients choose to pay in currencies other than the U.S.
dollar, and our Upwork Payroll offering. In addition, we provide a managed services offering where we engage talent to complete projects, directly invoice the client, and assume
responsibility for work performed."

Always fun to prove you wrong!

[#16]

Client feedback will always be subjective. Someone didn't like your work enough to give you full marks. Why would it matter whether they told you outright or just graded you secretly. If you had a job and never received a promotion, you might never learn who was responsible or why you were held back. That's just the way life goes. 

What would you do if the client left public feedback indicating your work was subpar? Argue with them? Request a tribunal? 

[#17]

No Tonya - work life does not just go that way, unless you allow uscrupulous managers and unethical companies to walk all over you and your performance.  We don't all settle into a life of mediocrity - believing that being unfairly, and unscrupulously impugned and assailed -- is just the way life goes.  Some of use guard our reputations -- read below to understand why.

Why does it matter that clients can leave private feedback here:

1. It is sneaky - I can think that only cowardly people would intentionally leave postive public feedback, but privately leave negative feedback.

2. It erodes trust between the client and the freelancer, and between the freelancers and UW.

3. It prevents freelancers from addressing legitimate deficiencies in our work.  UW refuses to say which client does this - and won't tell us the criticisms.   (that on its face should make your skin crawl)... or put another way: some people actually care why they didn't receive a promotion - these same people also take their work seriously, seek to outperform and do not sit idly by if their managers/bosses refuse to share feedback, or worse: secretly keep it from us.   That is hugely unethical.  

4. Sneaky feedback - that we can not address - actually damages our reputations on the platform, by negatively impacting our JSS.  A 75% JSS is NOT subjective - not to clients seeking my level of high-quality work and professionalism --- it is objective and definitive - and an absolute shamble of a measure of my work. 

"In 2022, your business’s reputation is one of its greatest assets. In a reputation study published by Deloitte , the majority of 300 executives and board directors surveyed considered brand reputation as the highest strategic risk area for a company, over other major factors such as competition, business model, and the impact of economic trends.  Reputational damage is often measured in lost revenue, changes or increases in capital, operating, or regulatory costs, or significant decreases in shareholder value. 87% of consumers report reading a business’s reviews  when researching a business, and 79% report trusting online reviews as much as personal recommendations from friends or family, meaning a review from a dissatisfied customer or disgruntled employee can take on a life of its own online, defining your business and turning away customers."

[#18]

1- Apart from the fact that everyone has the right to be a coward, some clients do this for fear of being persecuted, insulted or threatened. We have seen some cases.
2- I don't think so. When you have a relationship with the client, and vice versa, you usually see where he is limping and no matter how much trust there is between the two, you usually sense what can happen.
3 - We have seen many people say this. I think freelancers usually know who that bad private comment came from. It is you who should study what could have happened and how to improve in the future.
4 - For many high-level freelancers whose private comments have dropped below 90%, it seems that it is something that has not influenced them much to continue getting jobs and invitations.

You must accept that the JSS is there. That will not go away. That it is a more or less unsolvable mystery and move on.

And, for what it's worth, I think that speech you have on your profile about your JSS can do you more harm than good.
It will make customers notice it, when we know from some customer feedback that many don't know what it is or don't pay attention to it.

[#19]

Yes Maria - for sure implement a system that secretly critisizes freelancers - b/c someone or another made a hollow threat, or insult to a client - who likely deserved it.  There are more complaints here of unscrupulous clients than freelancers. 

Sure, make freelancers guess and wonder who said what negative about us --guessing is certainly the best way for me to address legitimate deficiencies - I see your point.  I like this guessing game! (rolling eyes).

So, many customers dont know what a JSS is or even pay attention to it -- which is why UW invests so much time and effort in creating and maintaining this nonsense - and then sending moderators like you out to address freelancer complaints - that makes total sense.

Please stop trying to defend the indefensible -- you all know that allowing clients to secretly complain about us, and then refusing to share the complaints with us - is an absolute farse. 

[#20]

I suppose you have nothing to lose by posting your explanation for your JSS in your profile, but puzzles me why you didn't respond to the client's comment that "We are not able to communicate.". I also see in your work history a job where you received 2.40 public feedback. Do you honestly prefer that feedback to the 4.55 feedback with presumably low private feedback?

Anyway, this is something that was debated ad nauseum when JSS was introduced, but two justifications for it are that clients are reluctant to give less than 5 stars publicly because that might discourage freelancers from applying to future job posts, and public feedback is easier to manipulate. As a result, prior to the adoption of JSS, there were countless freelancers with perfect or near perfect star ratings, which made the star ratings almost useless. If you doubt the prevalence of feedback manipulation, it was once commonplace for freelancers to give partial refunds in exchange for 5 star feedback, although I never did that, because I'm ethical, and also because I was unaware of the practice. 

[#21]

Thanks John,

I don't see a way to reply to that comment - although I did provide what I believe is public feedback when the client closed the job.  I dont know the timing of his private feedback (if it was retaliatory due to my negative comments) -- UW wont even say it was this client.

I tripple-dog dare you to look once again - this time without an agenda:  Please view the two subsequently - and recently closed - projects:

1. "I highly recommend Mark if you need your project / startup modeled in Excel. Great communication too."

2. "Great communication and follow up"

Oh, and the Nov 2019 project which includes this: "Great communication with regular status updates and requests for clarification when necessary. "   Even the 2.4 states this: "Freelancer has great skills and his ability and communication skills are all there.

................and contrast it to the "We are not able to communicate."  that you picked above. Noticed anything interesting, like I may have a history of "great communication"??? 

Yes, my work history has a 2.40 and a 4.55 --- AND it also has the following - in case you are guilty of cherry-picking to make a point (which I do not fully understand):

5.0

5.0

5.0

2.4

5.0

5.0

5.0

4.8

4.55

5.0

5.0

which averages to 4.70 -- and which, if you applied percentages - you know, like say a JSS or something, the 4.70 equals 94.1% (51.75/55.00).......but you are right, that 2.4 and the 75% tipy-top-secret private-feedback JSS should definitely define my work and reputation.  You got me. 

So, what you are saying is that clients can secretly hose freelancers so that freelancers will be willing to work for that client again -- and the resultantly trashed JSS has no impact on freelancers willingness to apply to jobs?  Is that your logic???

Or that public feedback is easier to manipulate?  How could I possibly manipulate feedback more than it already is manipulated - using a secret feedback system?  I'm just confused here -- please help me understand your thinking.

If you wish to call into question manipulation and useless 5 star ratings - have you observed top-rated freelancers histories of "this feedback has been deleted"? (you know top rated freelancers are able to erase - from view and JSS - negative feedback - dont you?).

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"Doesn't cost you a thing to think before you post." - Mark Krickovich

[#22]

[#23]

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Mark K wrote:

Yes, my work history has a 2.40 and a 4.55 --- AND it also has the following - in case you are guilty of cherry-picking to make a point (which I do not fully understand):

5.0

5.0

5.0

2.4

5.0

5.0

5.0

4.8

4.55

5.0

5.0

which averages to 4.70 -- and which, if you applied percentages - you know, like say a JSS or something, the 4.70 equals 94.1% (51.75/55.00).......but you are right, that 2.4 and the 75% tipy-top-secret private-feedback JSS should definitely define my work and reputation.  You got me. 

Mark, one thing to keep in mind is that JSS is based on jobs completed within the last 2 years, so neither the 2.4 feedback nor most of the 5 star feedbacks you listed have bearing on your JSS. Conversely, the 2 jobs that were completed on March 30, 2022 could have elevated your JSS, if the client had closed those jobs. Evidently, you closed them yourself, because my understanding is that a client must leave feedback when closing a job.

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Or that public feedback is easier to manipulate?  How could I possibly manipulate feedback more than it already is manipulated - using a secret feedback system?  I'm just confused here -- please help me understand your thinking.

If you wish to call into question manipulation and useless 5 star ratings - have you observed top-rated freelancers histories of "this feedback has been deleted"? 

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"Doesn't cost you a thing to think before you post." - Mark Krickovich

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I've used the feedback removal perk myself, ONCE, and it was for a vindictive client who needed a scapegoat. If you're going to argue against the feedback removal perk, I think that would be an unpopular position among the freelance community on Upwork you mentioned previously. And I think it's a stretch to call that manipulation since it's explicitly permitted in the site TOS and it's transparent in stating that the freelancer removed the feedback.

[#24]

John

Kudos though for making it into top-rated - I do know that takes hard work and dedication. 

I don't know how or why the existence of a TOS precludes manipulation: either intentionally or unwittingly.  You are saying that b/c a TOS exists, there is no JSS manipulation that occurs when top-rated members remove negative feedback?  It artifically keeps your JSS at 5.0, does it not? ...  which I thought was the problem with the old (pre-sneaky-feeback) JSS; clients were apparently leaving 5.0 to everyone in willy-nilly fashion, thus making the score meaningless.  If a client is earnestly scoring his/her experience with you at <5.0 (and does not recommend you, apparently) -  assume occured - and you turn that 3.8 (example) into a 5.0, aren't you guilty of making your JSS meaningless?  I would like to see that negative feedback, it could be material in my decision to hire you... but it is just 5.0 for pages upon pages: talk about meaningless mate.  If this is not a manipulative scoring practice, what other name would you give to it?  

This TOS argument is bandied here as a solution to a problem, and not the problem requiring a solution.  If you feel the need to plant your flag on TOS to justify your own questionable negative-JSS removal practices, that is fine ... but I hope you can see that you doing so makes your JSS somewhat meaningless (your excellent client marks notwithstanding).

And, I would be grateful to read a true-faced response to your attempt to cherry pick two jobs on my profile (and ignore the 5.0s) .... to make your point.   You impugned my reputation by doing so, and I ask you to make it right here.  

My JSS is 75% because ONE client seemingly (although  I'll never know) did not click the radio-button which reads: "will recommend this freelancer". 

[#25]

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Mark K wrote:

John

Kudos though for making it into top-rated - I do know that takes hard work and dedication. 

I don't know how or why the existence of a TOS precludes manipulation: either intentionally or unwittingly.  You are saying that b/c a TOS exists, there is no JSS manipulation that occurs when top-rated members remove negative feedback?  It artifically keeps your JSS at 5.0, does it not? ...  which I thought was the problem with the old (pre-sneaky-feeback) JSS; clients were apparently leaving 5.0 to everyone in willy-nilly fashion, thus making the score meaningless.  If a client is earnestly scoring his/her experience with you at <5.0 (and does not recommend you, apparently) -  assume occured - and you turn that 3.8 (example) into a 5.0, aren't you guilty of making your JSS meaningless?  I would like to see that negative feedback, it could be material in my decision to hire you... but it is just 5.0 for pages upon pages: talk about meaningless mate.  If this is not a manipulative scoring practice, what other name would you give to it?  

This TOS argument is bandied here as a solution to a problem, and not the problem requiring a solution.  If you feel the need to plant your flag on TOS to justify your own questionable negative-JSS removal practices, that is fine ... but I hope you can see that you doing so makes your JSS somewhat meaningless (your excellent client marks notwithstanding).

And, I would be grateful to read a true-faced response to your attempt to cherry pick two jobs on my profile (and ignore the 5.0s) .... to make your point.   You impugned my reputation by doing so, and I ask you to make it right here.  

My JSS is 75% because ONE client seemingly (although  I'll never know) did not click the radio-button which reads: "will recommend this freelancer". 

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tl;dr

Feedback removal is only available to FLs who consistently keep their JSS above 90 (for 13 of the previous 16 consecutive weeks) and it can only be used every three months/10 contracts. So, it isn't a way to artificially prop up an otherwise deficient JSS. It is a hard-earned perk that can keep a project that slipped sideways from damaging the rep of an otherwise consistently excellent FL.

Nobody's JSS falls into the 70s because of a single client's feedback. Any FL who garners consistently sub-par feedback needs to look at what he or she could be doing differently. Any one of us could be the most talented writer or translator or graphic designer or business strategist or coder or executive assistant in the world, but if we cannot consistently ensure that our clients woudl recommend us to others, then we are not cut out for freelancing. That's just the way of it.