Suggested Unfair JSS Profile Verbiage

[#1]

Hope this helps other freelancers who have truly been the victims of the UW private-client-feedback JSS problem.  

"MY 75% JSS: It Pains me to have to explain my recent 75% JSS score, I should not have to do so. UW allows clients to provide public feedback (which in the case of the "Writing Project" below shows a 4.55 out of 5.0 score), but to privately complain about a freelancer (which I can only presume this client did - UW won't tell me because the feedback is "private"). Freelancers are unable to know which client privately marks us down, but we are also unable to know what the exact criticism states - so we can address legitimate deficiencies. This practice is unpopular among the freelance community on Upwork, for good reason: it is sneaky, unethical and harmful to honest professionals on this platform. Please consider my other top-rated - and true-faced - client responses to my high-quality, professional work: it is a better measure of what you can expect vs what Upwork's notoriously questionable JSS will show.

[#2]

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Mark K wrote:

I hate when people use "full stop" -- but I won't let that (full) stop - get it - me from responding Renata.  I apologized already - for being opinionated -- guess you conveniently skipped right passed that.

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I don't think Renata was using "full stop" in an attempt to prevent you from getting the last word - anyone reading this thread will know that THAT isn't going to happen. But your JSS does come down to one thing, and one thing only - some of your clients were less than thrilled with you. Even if everyone in this thread agreed that the JSS is unfair and you've been shoddily treated etc. etc. etc., what good would that do you? Upwork isn't going to change the calculation, so your options boil down to: 1) learn better customer service skills, or 2) not. Full stop.

[#3]

Yes, that's it --- you're strawman false dichotomy solution is the answer ..  how did I not not think of that Christine.  Brilliant - you!

[#4]

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Mark K wrote:

The request was addressed to John, not you Michael.

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I appreciate Douglas Michael's intervention, but since you're insisting, I will oblige. However, Monday's a busy day, so it will be a while before I can fulfill your request.

[#5]

not holding my breathe -- so just go on about your week John. 

Regards,

Mark

[#6]

Mark, here's my reply as promised, but I want to preface it by saying this is probably my last comment on this topic.

I mentioned your 2.40 and 4.55 feedback jobs simply to suggest that a decent public feedback with low private feedback might be preferable to a low public feedback, but if that impugned your reputation, then I apologize, though that wasn't my intent. And besides, you rather impugned mine with your comment about my questionable negative-JSS removal practices, so perhaps that makes it even? Especially since to characterize removing one feedback out of 421 jobs as a practice is hyperbolic, and since I had a 100% JSS at the time, nearly 2 years ago, and the profile JSS is the maximum of the average JSS from the previous 6/12/24 months, it would have had little or no effect on my JSS had I not removed it.

[#7]

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Mark K wrote:

....

Yes, my work history has a 2.40 and a 4.55 --- AND it also has the following

....

5.0

5.0

5.0

2.4

5.0

5.0

5.0

4.8

4.55

5.0

5.0

which averages to 4.70 -- and which, if you applied percentages - you know, like say a JSS or something, the 4.70 equals 94.1% (51.75/55.00).......

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That's not how JSS works. It is widely believed to be based on the Net Promoter Score (NPS), which has a quite high threshold for excellence. Upon closing a contract, immediately after giving the reason for its ending, clients are asked whether they would recommend us.  To understand JSS, and why it may diverge from a star rating average, start with the private stat of "Clients who would recommend," and interpret that percentage within the framework of the NPS. There are other factors that can cause them to diverge, but JSS typically closely follows "clients who would recommend."

[#8]

Thanks Douglas --

That makes JSS more palatable - knowing (well guessing - which is all that the community has done for years) that it is based on high-bars of achievement.

Where this idea fails, however, is when the clients are not 'forced' to leave feedback where a freelancer has otherwise done excellent work.  Or, where a client uses the private option to retaliate secretly: which I beleive happed to me (I'll never know however).  

In the end, no system is perfect -- but some are more imperfect than others and allowing unknown (to the freelancer) clients to post secret feedback, then refusing to share that feedback with the freelancer, is a highly questionable practice.  Unethical in my view.

[#9]

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Mark K wrote: which averages to 4.70

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The average on Upwork is 4.9 because most clients leave 5 stars by default, regardless of how much they disliked the freelancer's work.

Also, whatever happened more than 24 months ago no longer counts for the JSS.

[#10]

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Mark K wrote:

Yes, my work history has a 2.40 and a 4.55 --- AND it also has the following - in case you are guilty of cherry-picking to make a point (which I do not fully understand):

5.0

5.0

5.0

2.4

5.0

5.0

5.0

4.8

4.55

5.0

5.0

which averages to 4.70 -- and which, if you applied percentages - you know, like say a JSS or something, the 4.70 equals 94.1% (51.75/55.00).......but you are right, that 2.4 and the 75% tipy-top-secret private-feedback JSS should definitely define my work and reputation.  You got me. 

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That's not how the JSS is calculated, and anyway, the average star feedback on Upwork is 4.9, which means that your 4.70 is below average. And I'm not really following your argument that your JSS is low because of Upwork's "sneaky" private feedback system. You can blame Upwork all you want, but it's the same system that they apply to every other freelancer, and many of us manage to stay above 90%. If private feedback truly made it impossible to have a good JSS, then nobody would have one.

[#11]

Hi Peter, Happy Friday.   While no one wants to be publicly humiliated - allowing clients to privately humiliate us is barely much better - and as the sneaky feedback does impact our JSS, it has a public impact: on our reputation on the platform.

[#12]

I don't really understand. A client can leave whatever feedback they choose, to, just like we can.

[#13 · Accepted solution]

This is a truly terrible strategy to put this on your profile. It's like you took a marketing course and then did the exact opposite of absolutely everything they taught you. (To explain: you are practically screaming at potential clients that you are difficult to work with and petty. You might not even be that. But this is what comes across.)

If you were a little more diligent in getting clients to leave feedback and avoided no-feedback jobs, this whole issue would be a nothing burger. 

[#14]

Thanks Martina - I will noodle on this advice.

Are you diligent in getting clients to leave feedback?  Ever take a client who refuses, despite your pleadings? I have -- and guess what, none of them respond....and to make this worse: Upwork doesnt give one whit that these **Edited for Community Guidelines** are allowed to parade around here --- they have the $ afterall. 

[#15]

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Mark K wrote:

Are you diligent in getting clients to leave feedback?  Ever take a client who refuses, despite your pleadings? I have -- and guess what, none of them respond....

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Why would you bother?

"Pleading" with a client to leave feedback? Seriously? Why would you do such a thing?

Simply encourage the client to close the contract (which guarantees feedback), at the end of a contract, if they don't, close it yourself.

[#16]

I am not a moderator, I am a freelancer like you.

There are TOS and rules that you agreed to when creating your profile. If now they have gone against you, I'm sorry, but it is what it is.

It hasn't been just one customer who has complained that they were being threatened or persecuted, even on social media.
And to say that if they suffered it is surely because they deserved it really says a lot about you. There may have been cases in which this was true, but in others it has not been so.

You can answer or not, I am not going to deal anymore with someone who is so stubborn and rude.

[#17]

ok, thanks for taking time to respond - I am sorry I was so opinionated, did not intend to offend you.

Regards,

Mark

[#18]

I have a hard time believing the freelancer has no idea which contract left a bad private feedback and why. It has never happened to me that my JSS dropped and I had no idea who and why left the bad feedback. 

[#19]

Hi Tatevik -- might this convince you?

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[#20]

The ones that leave 4.5 etc, can often leave private feedback of 4-7, even at times below that. 

Like one of my recent public feedbacks says 4.85, but I know for a fact the client left maybe 1 or 2 out of 10. Things like these can happen, a client can leave a bad private feedback because you refuse to be indefinitely available for their project, but leave a stellar public feedback thinking that might get you to work with them in the future, as they think 'private' means there is no way for freelancer to tell.

Just try to get feedback from the client as project progresses - ask - are they happy with how the project progresses? That might help get some sense as to what to expect when project ends.

[#21]

Oh come on. You know EXACTLY which client left poor private feedback. You know PERFECTLY well which contract had not ended well, which is why you left such poor feedback to the client.

How in the world can you pretend you don't know?

Little hint: Might it perhaps be the one who stated that they've hired many freelancers, but "never one as combative as Mark"? Given the way you are responding to people here, one can't help but think that the client may well have a point.

Had you really expected a high private feedback score from that contract? If yes, you must be stunningly unaware. If not, what's the point of asking Support?

[#22]

Hi everyone, 

We've been following this conversation and I'll close the thread to further replies since the arguments have been exhausted and the conversation is moving in an unproductive direction. I'd like to thank all participants for their valuable input.