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Suggestions for Upwork policy on feedback and JSS

rxqm
Ace Contributor
Xiaoqing Claire R Member Since: Mar 20, 2017
1 of 30

Overall, Upwork is using a cookie-cutter approach and say no activity/feedback is likely bad feedback, but there are very simple ways to distinguish whether it's really due to freelancers not doing great work.

 

Suggestion 1. Allow private feedback without public feedback, and let negative private feedback affect JSS negatively, while a contract with no private and no public feedback at the same time do not affect JSS. As a client, I don't care about freelancer's ability to convince clients to leave feedback on Upwork. Everyone have strengths and weaknesses. To work well with people. I can't expect them to be perfect at everything. It's important to focus on what really matters to delivering great work, and soliciting official feedback is certainly not on my list.

 

Suggestion 2. Allow freelancers to respond to no public feedback.

2.1 Because no public feedback can be due to a various reasons, not just freelancer didn't do great work, so freelancers deserve a chance to explain what happend - Scenario (1) client happy with work but simply forget to end the contract, freelancer tried to reach client but no response, freelancer end the contract; Scenario (2) client not happy because freelancer didn't meet client's unreasonable demand; Scenario (3) client ran out of money and couldn't afford the work needed for final deliverables; etc.

2.2 Even though freelancer can leave feedback to client, the text is not shown on the freelancer's profile unless you click on each job. As a client, I usually just glance at each freelancer's profile without clicking on any job, then freelancer won't have a chance to let me know what really happened for a contract without public feedback. Alternatively Upwork can show freelancer's feedback text to clients on freelancer's profile.

2.3 To be fair, clients should be allowed to publicly respond to freelancer's feedback or no public feedback.

 

Suggestion 3. Do not let contract without activity affect JSS. I simply don't see how this is correlated with whether a freelancer can do great work. As a client, I can be very happy with freelancer's work and still want to leave a contract open without activity (there may be future work but not absolutely sure), simply because it's less work than ending a contract and starting a new one.

 

If contracts without activity somehow cost Upwork more money to manage, and/or contracts without feedback are not as informative about freelancers as Upwork want, it is Upwork's responsibility to urge clients to end contract and leave feedback. Upwork should not hold JSS as hostage to force freelancer to do Upwork's work. Whether a freelancer can do great work and whether he/she can optimze Upwork's business operation are two separate things. As a client I care about the former, not the latter. Upwork should not mix them together and mislead the clients.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
2 of 30

@Xiaoqing Claire R wrote:

Overall, Upwork is using a cookie-cutter approach and say no activity/feedback is likely bad feedback,


 No.

 

Only a significant percentage of such contracts affect the JSS.

 

Careful, competent contract- and client-management prevents the percentage of such contracts becoming "significant."

 

 

yitwail
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
3 of 30

Xiaoqing, while I appreciate your support for freelancers, you're overlooking one thing. You wrote, 'Whether a freelancer can do great work and whether he/she can optimze Upwork's business operation are two separate things. As a client I care about the former, not the latter.' But Upwork cares greatly about its business operation, and consequently attaches great importance to feedback, especially private feedback. Job Success doesn't merely measure client satisfaction, even though Upwork gives the impression that's what it represents.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
rxqm
Ace Contributor
Xiaoqing Claire R Member Since: Mar 20, 2017
4 of 30

@John K wrote:

Xiaoqing, while I appreciate your support for freelancers, you're overlooking one thing. You wrote, 'Whether a freelancer can do great work and whether he/she can optimze Upwork's business operation are two separate things. As a client I care about the former, not the latter.' But Upwork cares greatly about its business operation, and consequently attaches great importance to feedback, especially private feedback. Job Success doesn't merely measure client satisfaction, even though Upwork gives the impression that's what it represents.



We both agree that Upwork cares about its business operation, but my point is that Upwork should not mix it together with what clients care about. If Upwork really wants to punish freelancers for not optimize Upwork's business, simply create another category like "success score for optimizing Upwork's business operation" or however they want to sugar coat it. When my coworkders and I first saw "job success score", we assume it tells whether a freelancer can deliver great work to us, and has nothing to do with optimizing Upwork's business. And Upwork never explicitly says JSS does take into consideration of Upwork's business optimization, we just inferred it because that's the only way it makes sense. So we feel that Upwork is misleading us. 

yitwail
Community Guru
John K Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
5 of 30

@Xiaoqing Claire R wrote:

So we feel that Upwork is misleading us. 

Mislead is a strong word. We could give Upwork the benefit of the doubt and say it oversimplifies things -- after all, a client *could* google Upwork Job Success and gain greater insight into Upwork policy.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
rxqm
Ace Contributor
Xiaoqing Claire R Member Since: Mar 20, 2017
6 of 30

@John K wrote:

@Xiaoqing Claire R wrote:

So we feel that Upwork is misleading us. 

Mislead is a strong word. We could give Upwork the benefit of the doubt and say it oversimplifies things -- after all, a client *could* google Upwork Job Success and gain greater insight into Upwork policy.


We can't say for sure whether Upwork factor into JSS freelancer's ability to optimize Upwork's business operation. We highly suspect it, because that's the only way we can think of that makes sense. If that is really the case, Upwork is indeed misleading because I did not see it explicit say that anywhere in their help articles etc., so clients may not be able to find out about it by Google or any other text-searching method. Even if I give it the benefit of the doubt and believe it's said somewhere hard for me to find, it'll be just like the fine print that brings something too good to be true back in reality - with the same intention of lying by omission.

rxqm
Ace Contributor
Xiaoqing Claire R Member Since: Mar 20, 2017
7 of 30

@Petra R wrote:

@Xiaoqing Claire R wrote:

Overall, Upwork is using a cookie-cutter approach and say no activity/feedback is likely bad feedback,


 No.

 

Only a significant percentage of such contracts affect the JSS.

 

Careful, competent contract- and client-management prevents the percentage of such contracts becoming "significant."

 

 



That's why I said "likely", not "definitely". Every contract without feedback is potentially a building block to a significant percentage, especially when you don't have many contracts. Because of the field each freelancer specializes in, some may have many contracts with small work load, while others may have just a handful contracts with large work load, Also, Upwork won't tell us the percentage, it's not safe to assume what you consider a small percentage won't be considered a significant percentage by Upwork.

 

Rather than making us uncertain about what that percentage is, like I said, Upwork can simply allow private feedback without public feedback, and let negative be negative, no feedback be no effect on JSS.

iaabraham
Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
8 of 30

I completely agree with you; so many of my clients don't want to close the contract because it's less hassle to leave it open for when new work comes up. It's such a struggle to get them to close it / leave feedback.

 

This issue has been brought up many times but unfortunately your suggestions will fall on deaf ears because this isn't a concern for Upwork as it doesn't affect them.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
9 of 30

@Isabelle Anne A wrote:

 It's such a struggle to get them to close it / leave feedback.


 Oh come on now. "Such a struggle" is like calling a molehill "Mount Everest." It is NOT "such a struggle" and takes seconds to close and eventually rehire.

 

 

rxqm
Ace Contributor
Xiaoqing Claire R Member Since: Mar 20, 2017
10 of 30

@Petra R wrote:

@Isabelle Anne A wrote:

 It's such a struggle to get them to close it / leave feedback.


 Oh come on now. "Such a struggle" is like calling a molehill "Mount Everest." It is NOT "such a struggle" and takes seconds to close and eventually rehire.

 

 


 I think Isabelle Anne A means that even though it's really easy for a client to end a contract and start a new one, some clients still don't want to do it, despite that freelancers repeatedly tell them how important it is to end the contract and leave feedback, especially when their contract is on a lower hourly rate than the freelancer's current hourly rate, because they are afraid that the new contract will be a higher rate. As a client, I don't mind freelancers raising rates on me, because I want to respect the value of their work, as long as I believe it's worth it. If you keep undervaluing freelancers' work, they have no reason to deliver great work to you or even work for you. But not every client has this mindset. And some clients simply forgot about their open contract or even don't use Upwork any more, so they become unresponsive, and it is indeed a struggle for freelancers to deal with this situation.

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