Apr 7, 2018 07:53:18 PM by Michael M
I apologize for bothering y'all yet again, but I'm in need of advice. Again. I'm doing my best to write winning proposals: I'm following the guidelines in the Upwork articles that people have repeatedly directed and redirected me to, I've searched outside help from the likes of John Morris and others for their words of wisdom, and one of the biggest pieces of advice I've seen from some of these gurus is that I should help differentiate myself by pairing a winning proposal with an above-budget bidding price. I've tried implementing that piece of advice for the past month, and I've gotten absolutely nowhere. No matter how detailed and thorough and positive my proposal is, especially if it's the highest bidding proposal, it gets overlooked for one that is either on-par or beneath the client's budget, not even considered for interview, let alone selection for the job.
I have to ask, am I simply not at the point where this would work? I only have one job under my belt in the two months I've been here, and am only getting by financially with the scant basic editing I'm doing to help out a family member who's a professor - I desperately need more money than that, but I'm stuck at the point of being a measly minnow in a sea of fish that are more suited to and more savvy with this environment than I am. Please don't take me for being some entitled millennial - I honestly am split on the issue. On the one hand, I don't believe I have any right to earn money above budget most of the time. I'm new, I'm unproven, I might stay unproven because I'm too much of a risk with no work experience. But on the other hand, despite my misgivings...I need money to live, just like everyone else. I know freelancing is a business, and I'm doing my damnedest to treat it as such, and I also know that I have no right to be complaining about this - I'm not the first and I won't be the last to go through these first few months of no work, and I'm certainly not searching for sympathy, I know I won't find it here. But at the end of the day...I have to find a way to make this work. Freelancing isn't just an aspiration for me, it's literally the only way I can earn money. Thanks to stupid life decisions, working a regular 9-5 while trying to do this on the side is an option I simply don't have.
So, I have to ask... At what point do I have a right to charge above budget? Is there a way that I can reliably charge above budget and crash past the obviously prevalent mindset of most clients to go with someone at-or-below budget? Am I currently at the point where I have to participate in the race to the bottom (I know a lot of people say that the risk of hiring someone cheap should be stressed, but I'm convinced most clients here don't care, and I don't find my skills competitive enough to make the argument directly work in my favor)? If I have to, how critical is it to have a killer profile compared to writing killer proposals? (I can't afford the premium prices gurus require for their advice in crafting profiles, and I've already read through the Upwork guidelines in profile crafting).
...Or am I just overthinking this and should just sit back and continue to bear this burden like every other newbie here has to?...
Solved! Go to Solution.
Apr 7, 2018 10:03:07 PM by Tiffany S
It's not a matter of "right" and you shouldn't be bidding above budget to make an impression. You should be bidding what your work is worth, regardless of the posted budget. I have 30+ years experience and a solid Upwork profile. Sometimes I bid double or even more than double the budget. Sometimes I bid at or close to the budget. Other times, I bid below budget. You should be bidding what you're worth, not trying to make an impression with the number you throw out.
Of course, some client budgets are just ludicrous--many clients simply don't know what it will cost to get a job done. If the budget is too low, bid above it. If you have something that sets you apart and makes you a better choice than the other likely candidates, bid higher. But, if you're throwing out high numbers that you can't support with your skills and experience, you're definitely not helping yourself.
Apr 7, 2018 08:18:13 PM Edited Apr 16, 2018 10:34:37 AM by John K
Michael, I've never even heard of John Morris until now, but I guess you took his Upwork 101 course, hopefully for the 2 month free trial. Whatever the course taught you, if something's not working for you, like bidding above budget, then you might consider if it's not what it's hyped to be. I've been at Upwork for years, and continuously top rated since Upwork introduced the top rated badge, and can't remember ever bidding above the client budget. So maybe you could try using your own judgment. At least you have one completed job with 5 stars -- that's better than a lot of new freelancers. So build on that, and don't go to extremes -- if bidding above budget isn't working, that doesn't mean you should bid way below budget. Maybe you won't make a 6 figure income that way, but to me, 5 figures is better than no figures.
Apr 7, 2018 09:35:07 PM by Melissa C
Apr 7, 2018 10:03:07 PM by Tiffany S
It's not a matter of "right" and you shouldn't be bidding above budget to make an impression. You should be bidding what your work is worth, regardless of the posted budget. I have 30+ years experience and a solid Upwork profile. Sometimes I bid double or even more than double the budget. Sometimes I bid at or close to the budget. Other times, I bid below budget. You should be bidding what you're worth, not trying to make an impression with the number you throw out.
Of course, some client budgets are just ludicrous--many clients simply don't know what it will cost to get a job done. If the budget is too low, bid above it. If you have something that sets you apart and makes you a better choice than the other likely candidates, bid higher. But, if you're throwing out high numbers that you can't support with your skills and experience, you're definitely not helping yourself.
Apr 8, 2018 06:27:11 AM by Richard W
Hi Michael. Your profile is mostly about your skills/services as a wedding/event photographer. But this is not a service you're likely to be able to sell on Upwork, which is mostly used for remote work. Perhaps you should emphasise your photo editing skills much more.
Apr 8, 2018 05:31:43 PM by Michael M
Truth be told, I've seriously considered re-tuning my profile to focus more on photo editing - particularly focusing my niche on retouching portraits and wedding photos, removing blemishes from subjects and removing elements from backgrounds. I hope upon implementing the change that as I nail more jobs and secure a JSS, I'll eventually be able to take on a second niche. I've noticed photography related to Amazon listings is a fairly popular service here. I think it'd be fun to break into, depending on how things look for me by the fourth quarter of this year or first quarter of next year.
Apr 8, 2018 04:22:12 PM by Kevin C. N
Not to be mean, but I think you pretty much answered your own question in your last sentence: getting started here can be a bit of a struggle for all of us, but it's just something you have to go through.
Some great people here have already given you some very wise advice. I also believe you should not overthink this and you should base your bids on whatever you believe your work to be worth, not what some so-called "guru" tells you to. You got some great feedback on your first job so keep up the good work and you'll slowly see how your client list grows, but bear in mind this will take time so don't let this get you down and know that if you work hard you will eventually get to where you want to be, but again: Patience.
Apr 8, 2018 05:59:48 PM by Virginia F
@Kevin C. N wrote:Not to be mean, but I think you pretty much answered your own question in your last sentence: getting started here can be a bit of a struggle for all of us, but it's just something you have to go through.
Some great people here have already given you some very wise advice. I also believe you should not overthink this and you should base your bids on whatever you believe your work to be worth, not what some so-called "guru" tells you to. You got some great feedback on your first job so keep up the good work and you'll slowly see how your client list grows, but bear in mind this will take time so don't let this get you down and know that if you work hard you will eventually get to where you want to be, but again: Patience.
Kevin ... good advice.
Just FYI, those guru monikers are compliments of Upwork. We have not control over the silly titles they choose to give us. If you post here often enough, you might become a "guru" too.
Apr 8, 2018 06:04:51 PM by Tiffany S
Virginia, I could be wrong, but I THINK Kevin was using "guru" in that context to refer to folks like John Morris, who are selling their "expertise" at cracking Upwork.
Apr 9, 2018 03:08:35 AM by Kevin C. N
@Tiffany S wrote:Virginia, I could be wrong, but I THINK Kevin was using "guru" in that context to refer to folks like John Morris, who are selling their "expertise" at cracking Upwork.
Yes! I'm sorry if that was confusing in any way, you guys were the great people I referred to, and people selling courses on how to get jobs on UW (like John Morris) were the so-called gurus.
Apr 9, 2018 05:00:06 AM by Petra R
@Kevin C. N wrote:
Yes! I'm sorry if that was confusing in any way, you guys were the great people I referred to, and people selling courses on how to get jobs on UW (like John Morris) were the so-called gurus.
There is one in particular who hires his own (god knows what - business partner or employee) on Upwork at $ 999 per hour and then advertises it in such a way that it looks like his expensive courses led to that offer, even though HE HIMSELF hired him.
Apr 9, 2018 02:43:51 PM by Michael M
...The guy you're referring to isn't Danny Margulies, is it? That' the guy from whom I got the idea to charge a premium for my service from - I've been taking his advice from FreelancetoWin.com.
Apr 9, 2018 02:50:14 PM by Tiffany S
@Michael M wrote:...The guy you're referring to isn't Danny Margulies, is it? That' the guy from whom I got the idea to charge a premium for my service from - I've been taking his advice from FreelancetoWin.com.
You may want to rethink that.
Apr 9, 2018 02:56:06 PM by Michael M
Considering the advice I've been given in this thread, I am rethinking that advice.
Nov 23, 2018 09:57:20 AM by Maureen L
Nov 23, 2018 12:19:25 PM by Petra R
@Maureen L wrote:
I took his advice too and am not getting hired. I'm going to post a new question.
Yeah. Little surprise there.
Your profile needs a complete doing over.