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The Town Hall on the new connect changes

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Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
21 of 42

Marina, to me they sound reasonable, too.  Of course, that's in no way relevant to my comment, which clearly had nothing to do with what you personally would have asked Upwork.

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Community Leader
Marina R Member Since: Sep 30, 2016
22 of 42

Tiffany, I addressed that in my first line. We rant because we don't get answers. We would have an intelligent discussion if given a chance. 

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Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
23 of 42

Marina R wrote:

Tiffany, I addressed that in my first line. We rant because we don't get answers. We would have an intelligent discussion if given a chance. 


I didn't realize that you were privy to the thoughts and motivations of thousands of strangers whose behavior in the forums gives no indication that they have anything in common with you whatsoever. Now that I know you are either psychic or the world's busiest and most geographically diverse psychotherapist, I defer to your super-human knowledge.

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Community Leader
Marina R Member Since: Sep 30, 2016
24 of 42

Tiffany S wrote:

Marina R wrote:

Tiffany, I addressed that in my first line. We rant because we don't get answers. We would have an intelligent discussion if given a chance. 


I didn't realize that you were privy to the thoughts and motivations of thousands of strangers whose behavior in the forums gives no indication that they have anything in common with you whatsoever. Now that I know you are either psychic or the world's busiest and most geographically diverse psychotherapist, I defer to your super-human knowledge.


Haha this made me giggle. 

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Community Guru
Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
25 of 42

Marina R wrote:

Well, ranting


Tiffany S wrote:

Marina R wrote:

Really? They don't trust us to have a civil conversation. We're not children. We should be allowed a rebuttal in a so called Town Hall. 

 

You make it sound like you've never read a forum thread. 100+ pages of rant in which various people said the same thing in slightly different words dozens of times in all caps is a good tip off that intelligent discussion is not likely.


Well, ranting in forums is what we do when we don't get a chance ask questions and followup questions. 

 

For example

 

"Are you doing this for more money?"

 

"No, we're actually expecting not to make money from this." 

 

"Got it." 

 

-Now, instead of "Got it", we could ask "How did you calculate that math. You say many people buy connects for one dollar each, can you say how many? Additionally, are you saying that you won't make extra money from Plus being more expensive? If so, what are you doing wrong when you're charging 50% more, but coming out not making any money?" 

 

Those are all legitimate questions. They are not ranty. I'm seriously curious. 

 

Additionally:

 

"We're doing this so that clients don't need to sort through so many apps. However, if they say they want Top Rated only, we'll let everyone else apply because clients can sort and filter."

 

A question there could be: Is this filter available if the clients don't state their preference? If you say that clients can sort, what stops them from sorting right now? 

 

Also: 

 

"We made this change where we charge for connects. You will get the connects back only if a job is closed or reported as fraud. We didn't want to make too many changes, so we won't give you back connects if the job is inactive forever." 

 

A followup there would have been: 

 

"But why? Not making a change for a sake of not making one additional change because there are too many changes seems ignorant.

 

Why not make an additional change that would benefit the freelancers, for example, if a job is inactive for more than a month, you'd send the potential client an email saying that you will close the job if they don't hire anyone. 

 

If you don't hear from them, you'll close the job automatically, not leave it active indefinitely. Clearly, that wouldn't any purpose other than keeping the money you get for connects?" 

 

Now, Tiffany, I don't know if you think those are insulting to them, or somehow seem agressive, to me they just sound like rational followups. But we weren't allowed to ask followup questions, meaning the whole thing was just for show. Nothing was explained, other than the things that were previously already explained. 


This sounds really awesome and reasonable, but think about it: that's only one question for each subject coming from one person (you), and even then the answers you got to each question might yield more follow-up questions. Just from you.

 

Imagine questions coming from 100 or even just 5 or 10 different people, with their own answers, questions, rebuttals and follow-ups to rebuttal answers, for every single question. The one podcast would have covered like...one question. If it go that far. Smiley Very Happy

 

I've been watching debates on a certain subject on Youtube lately. It's amazing how far afield of the original question these debates can get just having TWO people going head-to-head...yes, rationally and without an excess of emotion or verbal all-caps. You have the moderator constantly stepping in to put things back in place...which adds yet another element.

 

This method would be totally impossible with this Town Hall thing (I didn't watch it, BTW, I knew it wouldn't yield any new information, really).

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Community Leader
Marina R Member Since: Sep 30, 2016
26 of 42

Melanie H wrote:

This method would be totally impossible with this Town Hall thing (I didn't watch it, BTW, I knew it wouldn't yield any new information, really).


Well, maybe then, as I said earlier, the town hall served no purpose whatsoever. Other than **Edited for Community Guidelines**, so they can say they did it. 

 

It was useless to me. 

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Ace Contributor
Rocio G Member Since: Apr 2, 2019
27 of 42
You're right! I let them know (not that it matters to them anyway) during the forum that the only questions they we're choosing to bring up have already been answered by Their team on Upwork Community days ago. So this proves that they're also not being honest about "reading" them.
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Ace Contributor
Rocio G Member Since: Apr 2, 2019
28 of 42
Spoiler


Marina R wrote:

I'm listening to the town hall, as I'm guessing a lot of you are. 

 

The fact that we're not allowed a rebuttal to anything the speaker is saying makes the whole thing completely moot. 

 

The host responds with "Got it" every time she is done speaking, and she is never challenged on anything she says. He's reading off first level question and no followup questions are asked. 

 

This is not a town hall. This is just propaganda. 


exactly and the questions that are being "screened" are the same ones.  I'm one writing the same question (posting is a different question every time) but has to do with sliding fee being decreased, and it's not being picked up...The guy is picking the same questions which have to do only with the same topic and not dealing with the issue of what this bogus webminar was supposed to be about which is the fact that we're all ticked off about them making a change which no freelancer was taken into account when making a decision. 

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Ace Contributor
Rocio G Member Since: Apr 2, 2019
29 of 42

Marina R wrote:

I'm listening to the town hall, as I'm guessing a lot of you are. 

 

The fact that we're not allowed a rebuttal to anything the speaker is saying makes the whole thing completely moot. 

 

The host responds with "Got it" every time she is done speaking, and she is never challenged on anything she says. He's reading off first level question and no followup questions are asked. 

 

This is not a town hall. This is just propaganda. 


I suppose I was very persistent, my question just got picked up.  

 

"The initial message that went out making this decision stated that many clients and freelancers were taken into consideration when making this decision. How many freelancers were actually polled for this and why wasn't this done with a larger # of freelancers? Specifically the freelancers who are Top Rated? It really does seem like an unfair process."

 

Is she really answering the question?  I don't believe so.

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Community Leader
Marina R Member Since: Sep 30, 2016
30 of 42

Rocio G wrote:


I suppose I was very persistent, my question just got picked up.  

 

"The initial message that went out making this decision stated that many clients and freelancers were taken into consideration when making this decision. How many freelancers were actually polled for this and why wasn't this done with a larger # of freelancers? Specifically the freelancers who are Top Rated? It really does seem like an unfair process."

 

Is she really answering the question?  I don't believe so.


That's why we need rebuttals. Answering first level question, and echoing things that we've already had answered before is fine. But without the rebuttals, we don't really get real answers. 

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