Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

The client is harassing and bullying me online

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
31 of 71

Steven, I have no idea what you mean by "there is no legal," but it seems that you're suggesting that Upwork should break the law in the way it handles escrow because that would seem fairer to you. That would only benefit freelancers for a month or two,and then Upwork would be prohibited from acting as an escrow agent, perhaps sued, perhaps fined, and the whole system would come screeching to a halt, leaving you to find your own clients elsewhere--which is always an option if you find the current system so unacceptable that you think the reasonable path is for Upwork to ignore the law.

Ace Contributor
Steven S Member Since: Jun 13, 2016
32 of 71

This is faninating Tiffany.   You have allocated to me, a response I never made, using words that I never wrote.  So I have to ask you why?

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
33 of 71

Hi Melvin,

 

Sorry to hear you are having issues with a client. I checked and it looks like the team is still in the process of reviewing the client and the information you provided. The dispute is currently open as well. Unfortunately, we can't share the outcome of the review and the details of another user's account status for privacy information, but the team will definitely guide you through the dispute process.

Meanwhile, you can read more about the process here.

~ Valeria
Untitled
Active Member
Melvin M Member Since: Sep 27, 2015
34 of 71
Thank you so much Valeria! The upwork service reps I have contacted with are very professional and extremely helpful.
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
35 of 71

Regardless of what somebody might actually be able to get away with... We should remember this:

 

The fixed-price contract model is intended for clients to hire a freelancer to do a task, and then pay them for doing so. The escrow system is in place to support that in a way that is fair for both parties.

 

None of this is intended as a way for clients to get work done for free.

 

Every freelancer AND client should understand that when a client hires a freelancer to do a task, and the freelancer does it, then the client needs to pay her.

 

Period.

 

It doesn't matter if the client's project got cancelled or if the client needs money to pay for his rent or if the client can find fault with the work. If the work that was agreed upon was done, then the client needs to pay. Otherwise, the client is a bad person.

 

Even if the client can find a loophole or a button in the Upwork user interface that allows him to avoid paying.

Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
36 of 71

Preston H wrote:

Regardless of what somebody might actually be able to get away with... We should remember this:

 

The fixed-price contract model is intended for clients to hire a freelancer to do a task, and then pay them for doing so. The escrow system is in place to support that in a way that is fair for both parties.

 

None of this is intended as a way for clients to get work done for free.

 

Every freelancer AND client should understand that when a client hires a freelancer to do a task, and the freelancer does it, then the client needs to pay her.

 

Period.

 

It doesn't matter if the client's project got cancelled or if the client needs money to pay for his rent or if the client can find fault with the work. If the work that was agreed upon was done, then the client needs to pay. Otherwise, the client is a bad person.

 

Even if the client can find a loophole or a button in the Upwork user interface that allows him to avoid paying.


Thanks Preston for summing up the freelancer's side, but as you also like to mention quite often clients, as well as freelancers, can cancel a job at any time.

 

I do not think there is a loophole in the system only this massive hole freelancers are digging for themself by handing over their work to the client without using the "submit work for payment" function.

Ace Contributor
Steven S Member Since: Jun 13, 2016
37 of 71

Jennifer, one assumes that all freelancers are smart enough to clieck the right button when in comes to payment.

 

The button is not the issue and never was.  It's the response of the client once the request for payment has been made, that this thread is about.

 

My experience has been on the whole very positive.  Most clients pay and pay promptly and sometimes add a bonus.  For this, I get to pay my rent, Upwork get their commission and the the client is satified with a great job.  Its the few clients that refuse to pay no matter what, that we are debating here. My point started off as - and remains - that the escrow system is failing freelancers at the lower end of the payment scale.

Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
38 of 71

Steven,

 

No matter how hard it tries, Upwork will never be able to treat low-priced projects and the freelancers who work on them with the same level of service and fairness as higher-priced projects. There is no way to throw enough people and resources at resolving disagreements  on projects where Upwork only makes a few dollars itself.

 

No, this situation isn't fair. But it isn't going to change either, so low-priced freelancers have to be particularly careful to adhere to every rule and protocol Upwork requires. Maybe using multiple milestones, not starting work on a milestone until payment is released for the previous milestone or other tactics would help deter this sort of abuse, but I am lucky enough not to have to use fixed price contracts so I am no expert.

 

I hope Melvin gets a fair resolution to his problem, but I expect freelancers - especially those who work on fixed price projects - who cannot afford to pay $291 for arbitration will always be at the mercy of unscrupulous clients.

 

I would hope that clients who engage in this sort of abusive activity are eventually removed by Upwork, but we have no way of knowing whether this happens or not. 

 

 

Community Guru
Jennifer R Member Since: Sep 15, 2017
39 of 71

Steven S wrote:

Jennifer, one assumes that all freelancers are smart enough to clieck the right button when in comes to payment.

 

The button is not the issue and never was.  It's the response of the client once the request for payment has been made, that this thread is about.

 

My experience has been on the whole very positive.  Most clients pay and pay promptly and sometimes add a bonus.  For this, I get to pay my rent, Upwork get their commission and the the client is satified with a great job.  Its the few clients that refuse to pay no matter what, that we are debating here. My point started off as - and remains - that the escrow system is failing freelancers at the lower end of the payment scale.


You would be surprised how many freelancers post here everyday because they did not hand over their work officially and the client just disappears.

 

And I actually think, that the escrow system is the best you can get if used correctly. It is far easier than sending invoices all the time. Do you really think a client would risk $291 just to avoid paying $100? The client will not get his $100 back fro excrow until arbitration is solved. I fail to see how the escrow system is failing here.

 

Every business is a risk. Clients can hire the wrong freelancer and pay twice, freelancers can have bad luck with clients. Just remember: "Life is like a box a chocolate, you never know what your going to get."

Ace Contributor
Steven S Member Since: Jun 13, 2016
40 of 71

Jeniffer, I am going to address your remarks in a general way and I am hoping that if you haven't "got it" yet, perhaps you will understand a little bit more.

 

The minimum wage in the USA in general is $7.50 and increasing.   A job waiting tables or cleaning dishes, brings in maybe $60 a shift.  Now, earlier Preston **Edited for Community Guidelines**refered to a "small job" of maybe $100 or $150 to try out a client and in his context, he is right.  Its a small job. He is skilled and not earning minimum wage.  perhaps his hourly income is of that magnitude.

 

In some countries, $100 represents an standard income of a month or two.  Paying for arbitration at $291 with no guarantee of getting it back, is seriously endangering the welfare of a freelancer and his family.  This is no joke and I don't think you have taken it at all seriously.

 

One last comment - the town that Upwork has its HQ in : the median income is $34,000 per annum.  Everything in its context. 

 

 

 

 

TOP SOLUTION AUTHORS
TOP KUDOED MEMBERS