This 5-day security hold of funds

[amurigi]

When will Upwork consider reducing the number of days they hold freelancer earnings before they are able to make a withdrawal. The 5-day period is too long. This needs to be reduced since now we shall be paying to bid for jobs. There are times when you need cash quickly and since the funds are put in Escrow, I don't understand why the funds are not released immediately a client approves a payment. The 5-day period is too long. Upwork should reduce it to 3 or less. 

[estrategic]

Anne - me personally, I don't have the inside edge to Upwork's financial policies.  But if I had to make a smart guess, I would say that they hold the excess cash in an interest bearing account and require a window of time to ensure that they can withdraw sufficient cash to meet freelancer requirements.

[martina_plaschka]

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Steven S wrote:

Anne - me personally, I don't have the inside edge to Upwork's financial policies.  But if I had to make a smart guess, I would say that they hold the excess cash in an interest bearing account and require a window of time to ensure that they can withdraw sufficient cash to meet freelancer requirements.

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I doubt this is the reason. Firstly, interest bearing accounts are really hard to find these days. Secondly, if this was their strategy, we should expect the holding period to be extended to 100 days or more, considering that upwork remains unprofitable.

No!!! No guys, don't share that with the team!

[lysis10]

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Steven S wrote:

Anne - me personally, I don't have the inside edge to Upwork's financial policies.  But if I had to make a smart guess, I would say that they hold the excess cash in an interest bearing account and require a window of time to ensure that they can withdraw sufficient cash to meet freelancer requirements.

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No, this is wrong.

OP, they did actually reduce the time by a day. It's the schmuck frauds we have to thank for this bs. I wish they would look into something like after the $10k mark with a client, you get 5% fees AND quick withdraws. I feel like after that point, you have a good relationship with the client and both sides are not frauds. But broke freelancers do anything for a buck so who knows if this is feasible. Maybe do something where if you're making a certain amount in a month you get this type of perk. For someone like me, renting my account out to some dude in China is totally not worth the risk.

[petra_r]

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Steven S wrote:

, I would say that they hold the excess cash in an interest bearing account

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No, they do not.

It's a loss prevention measure.

[emiguelina]

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Anne M wrote:

When will Upwork consider reducing the number of days they hold freelancer earnings before they are able to make a withdrawal. The 5-day period is too long. This needs to be reduced since now we shall be paying to bid for jobs. There are times when you need cash quickly and since the funds are put in Escrow, I don't understand why the funds are not released immediately a client approves a payment. The 5-day period is too long. Upwork should reduce it to 3 or less. 

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It has been requested, asked, widely discussed, ain't gonna happen any time soon. So... we all need to live with that and that's why we plan accordingly.

[wlyonsatl]

Anne,

Even with the current hold period for escrow due to freelancers, there are some weeks Upwork has to dig into its own funds to pay out money due to freelancers because the amount in escrow is not sufficient to pay the amount that is due.

There is no reason to expect Upwork will reduce the time line for escrowing freelancer funds because that would increase the amount Upwork would sometimes have to pay out of its own, non-escrow accounts during the weeks.

And we just have to assume the current hold period is specifically necessary to help Upwork fight fraud by either freelancers or clients. We don't know what the specifics of that problem are, but there is no indication Upwork is earning any interest on escrow balances. 

[prestonhunter]

re: "The 5-day period is too long."

Why is it too long?

[unimaker]

Even 3 days is too much, they earn money due our escrow hold,if I neeod immediate money I will use another freelancing platform

[Anonymous-User]

They do not make money from holding it. It is a security hold, which prevents clients and freelancers from cashing out and running. 

If you are running your freelance career like the professional business operation that it should be, you always have immediate cash available and security holds are protection.  

If you're looking for quick cash, you won't last long working for yourself. It just doesn't work that way.

[mohamedadel75]

5 days are really too long! 
i have checked and tried to understand the reason of these 5 days earning hold , but i couldnt find a clear answer!
i have seen that upwork are working on improving and developing upwork , thats great! so..i'm also hope upwork consider reducing that holding time to 2 days if really needs to holds the earning! it will be fair! 
upwork can make suggestion and voting about this , and see the result and our opinions!
or at least give us a clear and make sense explanation for that "5 days security time"!

[prestonhunter]

re: "5 days are really too long!"

You DO NOT NEED to wait 5 days to get paid.

If you stop looking for jobs on Upwork, then you can exclusively use other platforms for finding freelancer work - platforms which have shorter wait periods.

[mohamedadel75]

i don't understand what does your answer means?
u also dont know what is the reason of "5 days security period" , so u just suggest me to leave upwork?! 

[petra_r]

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Mohammed A wrote:

 u just suggest me to leave upwork?! 

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If you don't like the way the platform operates and think 5 days are too long, that is a viable option of course.

The security period gives Upwork the chance to prevent or interrupt certain potentially fraudulent behavior by clients and/or freelancers, mainly.

[mohamedadel75]

wow!

just criticize something on upwork, then i can find a suggestion to leave upwork!!
what a nice community guru!! hahaha

[mohamedadel75]

wow!

just criticize something on upwork, then i can find a suggestion to leave upwork! instead of a logical discussion!
what a nice community gurus!! haha

[petra_r]

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Mohammed A wrote:

just criticize something on upwork, then i can find a suggestion to leave upwork!

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To be fair, this question keeps popping up and is answered over and over and oooooooover again. Those of us who have been here for any length of time keep seeing it.

You also seem to be under the delusion that a business has to hold some "vote" as to how it balancers user requirements with their internal security and prevents fraud and financial losses. That is not the case.

You may also want to try working as a business in the real world with terms of 30 net / 60 net etc, and you will very swiftly begin to appreciate getting your funds 5 days after sign off.

[mohamedadel75]

actually u are the person who seems being under the delusion, because u think we cant ask and discuss about something has been discussed before by some members!
i think your attitude is bad and u need to learn more to improve urself!
i'll begin to appreciate when u learn more about this!

[wlyonsatl]

Mohammed,

Upwork accounted for losses to fraud and bad debt expense of nearly $5.8 million in 2018. So the company is going to do whatever it needs to do in order to reduce those losses, which apparently includes holding on to payments from clients for a few days before distributing the money to freelancers.

I don't know why companies like PayPal can make money transfers so much more quickly than Upwork does.

And I don't know why Upwork keeps the five-day delay in payments on fixed price milestones when the escrow was funded by the client far more than five days earlier. It may just be that Upwork's systems are not capable of handling anything other than a five-day wait after a milestone is released by the client or the 14-day automatic release period has passed.

But there is no evidence Upwork earns any interest on escrowed funds from clients (which are held in checking accounts, which do not typically pay interest). And Upwork says it actually sometimes has to use money it has to borrow from its banks in order to pay weekly payments for hourly projects, which means Upwork has to pay interest for that borrowed money.

[mohamedadel75]

Hello will , thanks for ur reply which is really useful!

yes, now i understood the reason and the concept of "the security period" and i think its normal and logical!

as u mentioned the amount escow has funded by the client for few days , and in some cases for many days....thats exactly what im asking about, why " 5 days" more ? why not 4 or 3 for example? 

thanks for ur reply will

hope that upwork can explain for us and discuus more about this , and consider in this issue 

[ronlorraine]

I wonder how many of these freelancers complaining about the 5 day security hold ever worked out there in the real world? I spent over 25 years working for the government and was paid twice a month on work I did a week before payday and the same was so when I went into the private sector. They would of just laughed at me if I wanted to get paid sooner since I don't think it's fair I have a 7 day hold on work I have already done.

[kfarnell]

The expectation that you might not be paid for 30 days is recognised in law in the UK. You can't claim a late payment fee until at least 30 days after the invoice is issued.

But as an aside, because I've often wondered this, is the five day period specifically because it's a full working week? I know banking works differently in the US to Europe and had assumed this was significant in some way.

[versailles]

In many places in EU, bills are been paid in 30 days. Sometimes it's way longer. So Upwork is not that bad. However they have tried a shorter option with some clients, and by shorter I mean no waiting period at all. I wonder if they will eventially expand this...

[motaz_shazly]

With all due respect, I don't think holding the money to fight fraud makes any sense at all! I personally went over the 10K mark with a client and been working with him for almost a year, so fraudlent just makes no sense at this point.

Additionally, that fact that there is no clear answer at the website's FAQ on why holding the money for 5 days is wrong, it gives the us the right to wonder why do they hold it. If upwork is holding the money that's already paid by the client, it's not paying off from its own balance, it's "TRANSFERRING" the money already collected from client to "DELIVER" it to the freelancer, and they get paid for that with a hight 20% mark! from freelancer, and another mark from the client. they're now even getting paid for allowing freelancers to bid!

I think holding the money is just another way for upwork to collect extra cash off the money they already recieved from clients, and to be transferred to freelancers. and it's starting to become very frustrating.

[wlyonsatl]

Motaz,

Although Upwork has never publicly explained in detail the need to create specific waiting periods between receiving funds from clients and paying related funds out freelancers, the company has specifically stated in reports filed with a major US government regulatory agency that, at least for hourly projects, Upwork often has to pay money out to freelancers BEFORE funds are received from clients for the work performed. America companies do not tell this particular agency things that are not true - there are severe penalties for doing so.

On the other hand, we do not know why a waiting period is necessary before release to a freelancer of escrowed funds where those funds have already been in escrow for many days or even weeks.

[AveryO]

Hi Motaz, 

I understand how this can be frustrating for you, but I would like to confirm that Upwork does not earn from holding a freelancer's earning during the 5-day security period. Our team is still looking into solutions that will allow for the security period to be reduced while maintaining a high level of protection users' payments currently have. We'll update the Community once we receive feedback from our Product team but I can confirm that our team is not considering reducing the timeline for automatically releasing Escrow funds.

While we continue to test ways to get freelancers' earnings faster to them, at this point we are not able to offer shorter security period for all transactions. Security remains to be our priority.

[4c6360e9]

Hi,
Upwork is best because they know who to evolve. In present time, feedback of user is key to success. It's not about being adamant or something. I belive if Upwork ask for a vote, they would know that 5 days is really frustrating. There need to be some relaxation here. Say after people earn first 1K it should be reduced to 3 days and after 10K may be within 24 hrs. Ideally if money in escrow for longer than 5 days should be enough to fight any fraudulent because all details are already there fo so long. Even then, repeat client should also matter. Upwork need to understand, people use this platform all over world and 50 bucks in USA are not same in Bangladesh and there immediete release would be great relief. Also not many people make thousands every week, Upwork would have better data. So atelast for these small but regular freelancers Upwork must do something. It's understandable for someone who is already making enough to survive the wait period. I really hope Upwork see the point. Certainly Upwork can keep doing what they want, but in the end of something hurting community won't be good.

Thanks
Sushil

[4c6360e9]

Exactly my point, most people not understanding that it is money transfer, the money already sitting there from beginning. I understand a thing about small job say under 30$ and finished by next day. But what about a job, irrespective of payment, was finished already longer than 5 days. I guess any job which has a escrow sitting for 5 days should be enough. These days should be used to fight frauds, but if job done after 5 days form the award of job, the money should transferred within 24 hrs max. It is as simple as that. Count the 5 days from the time escrow money was in, not after the job was finished. And most will find that fare.

[barton_rebekah]

100% agree with this! Having to wait nearly a week for money is crazy, especially when there are sometimes purchases that need to be made right away. I think after 6 months - 1 year of good standing/no complaints, the escrow period should be reduced dramatically.