This is getting ridiculous, PLEASE FIX!!!!

gaucho76 · ‎07-22-2019

So I posted a thread about the ridiculous "algorithm" for Job Success about 15-20 days ago, when after several succesful tasks with 5 stars my score was lowered to 97%.

In the middle, I did 2 additional tasks, both 5 stars, and got an average of 2000 dollars a week (counting hourly projects still open) for the last 2-3 months

My job success was lowered again, this time to 95%!!!!!!!

I demand a VERY CLEAR explanation. Not your usual censorship, but AN EXPLANATION. If it's not much to ask, I'm paying you 5 figures, so the least you can do is to ANSWER, not to censor me. If you're in the right, it should be a very easy thing to provide a VERY CLEAR EXPLANATION on why are you punishing me for being honest and succesful

dzadza · ‎07-22-2019

what is your client recommendation percentage on my stats page?

joansands · ‎07-22-2019

What a gentle answer, Sanja.

gaucho76 · ‎07-22-2019

WOW!!!!

Now I see my Agency score with only 5 starts tasks was lowered to 87%

Yeah right....

Now, how can you explain users (clients) that a perfect scored agency in fact has a 87% success score? Based on what? I'm very curious to know what I assume must be a really interesting answer, to say the least

dzadza · ‎07-22-2019

there are some upwork clients who would leave 5 star public feedback - and in the private feedback, they'll silently move the slider down...and you'll never know. Only if the recommend slider is moved to 10 - you can look at 100% recommendation from clients. If one client moved it to, let's say 8 - JSS is going down...

martina_plaschka · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
So I posted a thread about the ridiculous "algorithm" for Job Success about 15-20 days ago, when after several succesful tasks with 5 stars my score was lowered to 97%.

In the middle, I did 2 additional tasks, both 5 stars, and got an average of 2000 dollars a week (counting hourly projects still open) for the last 2-3 months

My job success was lowered again, this time to 95%!!!!!!!

I demand a VERY CLEAR explanation. Not your usual censorship, but AN EXPLANATION. If it's not much to ask, I'm paying you 5 figures, so the least you can do is to ANSWER, not to censor me. If you're in the right, it should be a very easy thing to provide a VERY CLEAR EXPLANATION on why are you punishing me for being honest and succesful

Upwork is not punishing you, you have clients that are less than 100% happy. Public feedback is a small part of JSS.

gaucho76 · ‎07-22-2019

so you're saying that clients provide 5 stars and pay thousands of dollars because they're unhappy? And that I have a 40% long term retention of clients, with clients as old as 7 or 8 years spending 5 figures because the're unhappy?

guess that's a possibility.... in Upwork's world 😕

melaniekhenson · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
so you're saying that clients provide 5 stars and pay thousands of dollars because they're unhappy? And that I have a 40% long term retention of clients, with clients as old as 7 or 8 years spending 5 figures because the're unhappy?

guess that's a possibility.... in Upwork's world 😕

Yes...they're paying because they have to unless they want to go into arbitration (which is a hassle...they just want the job done, not have a whole big rigamorale), and many clients provide 5 stars to avoid being hassled by the freelancer due to a lower rating.

Then in private feedback they rate you more honestly.

It's definitely a "thing," and it apparently is based on a history of freelancers harrassing clients for less than 5 stars. So now a portion of the feedback is private.

When you look at your Clients Who Would Recommend You score, what does it say?

prestonhunter · ‎07-22-2019

There is nothing to fix.

These JSS calculations are working as intended.

colettelewis · ‎07-22-2019

Deleted. I read the dates incorrectly.

gaucho76 · ‎07-22-2019

it says 65%. I never harassed anyone and I doubt clients will keep working with me for years and paying thousands and thousands if they're unhappy, unless they've a severe psychological condition.

Let me ask you: if you see a highly successful person with 5 stars ratings and more than a quarter million dollars made on the platform, with clients such as Facebook or Leica or US Government, with consistent work for YEARS, and you see a freelancer that is just starting... who would you think should be rated higher? Furthermore, who would YOU choose? Let me put it this way: you need to fix your house before it gets down, you have a contractor with not a single bad review and consistent work for years, with the highest quality clients, and someone who is starting. Your house (business) depends on this. Who would YOU choose?

And after checking the "My stats" page, I discovered a very interesting thing: despite the above, my profile hasn't been "discovered" for weeks. Even though I pay Upwork 5 figures, I have a very high hire rate and a very high interview rate (waaaaay above average, around 80% who interviews me hires me). That, in any existing algorithm would be like a "hey, we have a superstar, let's give him more prominence so we have more happy clients and make more money!" (I make a living out of building algos, so believe my word... or my client's if you don't want to believe mine).

Yet, despite these stats, which ARE UPWORK STATS, NOT MINE, nobody ever, ever, EVER "discovers" me. Please tell me how is that possible that BY UPWORK STATS I have a way above average retention, way above average interview rate, way above average hire rate, all 5 stars, hundredes of thousands of dollars earned, yet nobody likes me (??????).

If I worked with algorithm or statistics (wait..... I do!!!!!!) there are very few REAL explanations to this. None of them related to algorithms, go figure.

gilbert-phyllis · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
it says 65%. I never harassed anyone and I doubt clients will keep working with me for years and paying thousands and thousands if they're unhappy, unless they've a severe psychological condition.

Let me ask you: if you see a highly successful person with 5 stars ratings and more than a quarter million dollars made on the platform, with clients such as Facebook or Leica or US Government, with consistent work for YEARS, and you see a freelancer that is just starting... who would you think should be rated higher? Furthermore, who would YOU choose? Let me put it this way: you need to fix your house before it gets down, you have a contractor with not a single bad review and consistent work for years, with the highest quality clients, and someone who is starting. Your house (business) depends on this. Who would YOU choose?

And after checking the "My stats" page, I discovered a very interesting thing: despite the above, my profile hasn't been "discovered" for weeks. Even though I pay Upwork 5 figures, I have a very high hire rate and a very high interview rate (waaaaay above average, around 80% who interviews me hires me). That, in any existing algorithm would be like a "hey, we have a superstar, let's give him more prominence so we have more happy clients and make more money!" (I make a living out of building algos, so believe my word... or my client's if you don't want to believe mine).

Yet, despite these stats, which ARE UPWORK STATS, NOT MINE, nobody ever, ever, EVER "discovers" me. Please tell me how is that possible that BY UPWORK STATS I have a way above average retention, way above average interview rate, way above average hire rate, all 5 stars, hundredes of thousands of dollars earned, yet nobody likes me (??????).

If I worked with algorithm or statistics (wait..... I do!!!!!!) there are very few REAL explanations to this. None of them related to algorithms, go figure.

There's a known bug interfering with reporting of profile views. It's been going on, sporadically I believe, for weeks. What we see in our stats, for profile views, is not really what's happening.

sergio-soria · ‎07-22-2019

Hey Fabio, never mind the flat graphic reading "Your profile was discovered 0 times last week." It's something that has been working very erratically the last couple days and they did not fix it yet.

Now if "Clients who would recommend you" is 65% that means some of your clients left you bad private feedback. Maybe they are not as happy as you think. I can't see your profile, it reads "Profile not public" but if you had many long dormant contracts and you closed them all at once that could affect JSS too.

tlsanders · ‎07-22-2019

Wait, you have a 65% "clients who would recommend you" score? Is that what you were referencing?

If so, you should be thanking your lucky stars that you have 95% JSS.

kbadeau · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
it says 65%. I never harassed anyone and I doubt clients will keep working with me for years and paying thousands and thousands if they're unhappy, unless they've a severe psychological condition.

Let me ask you: if you see a highly successful person with 5 stars ratings and more than a quarter million dollars made on the platform, with clients such as Facebook or Leica or US Government, with consistent work for YEARS, and you see a freelancer that is just starting... who would you think should be rated higher? Furthermore, who would YOU choose? Let me put it this way: you need to fix your house before it gets down, you have a contractor with not a single bad review and consistent work for years, with the highest quality clients, and someone who is starting. Your house (business) depends on this. Who would YOU choose?

And after checking the "My stats" page, I discovered a very interesting thing: despite the above, my profile hasn't been "discovered" for weeks. Even though I pay Upwork 5 figures, I have a very high hire rate and a very high interview rate (waaaaay above average, around 80% who interviews me hires me). That, in any existing algorithm would be like a "hey, we have a superstar, let's give him more prominence so we have more happy clients and make more money!" (I make a living out of building algos, so believe my word... or my client's if you don't want to believe mine).

Yet, despite these stats, which ARE UPWORK STATS, NOT MINE, nobody ever, ever, EVER "discovers" me. Please tell me how is that possible that BY UPWORK STATS I have a way above average retention, way above average interview rate, way above average hire rate, all 5 stars, hundredes of thousands of dollars earned, yet nobody likes me (??????).

If I worked with algorithm or statistics (wait..... I do!!!!!!) there are very few REAL explanations to this. None of them related to algorithms, go figure.

I feel your pain, because I, too, live in fear of the JSS, but I have to agree with the others that it's kind of a waste of energy to be upset about it when you seem to be getting plenty of jobs and earning plenty of money. 🙂

I do think it's absurd for Upwork to ask for private feedback, use that feedback against us, and not share it in some way even though it's supposed to be private. They want the best freelancers and so do their clients...wouldn't it behoove them to let us know what we're doing wrong so we can try not to do those things?

martina_plaschka · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
it says 65%. I never harassed anyone and I doubt clients will keep working with me for years and paying thousands and thousands if they're unhappy, unless they've a severe psychological condition.

Let me ask you: if you see a highly successful person with 5 stars ratings and more than a quarter million dollars made on the platform, with clients such as Facebook or Leica or US Government, with consistent work for YEARS, and you see a freelancer that is just starting... who would you think should be rated higher? Furthermore, who would YOU choose? Let me put it this way: you need to fix your house before it gets down, you have a contractor with not a single bad review and consistent work for years, with the highest quality clients, and someone who is starting. Your house (business) depends on this. Who would YOU choose?

And after checking the "My stats" page, I discovered a very interesting thing: despite the above, my profile hasn't been "discovered" for weeks. Even though I pay Upwork 5 figures, I have a very high hire rate and a very high interview rate (waaaaay above average, around 80% who interviews me hires me). That, in any existing algorithm would be like a "hey, we have a superstar, let's give him more prominence so we have more happy clients and make more money!" (I make a living out of building algos, so believe my word... or my client's if you don't want to believe mine).

Yet, despite these stats, which ARE UPWORK STATS, NOT MINE, nobody ever, ever, EVER "discovers" me. Please tell me how is that possible that BY UPWORK STATS I have a way above average retention, way above average interview rate, way above average hire rate, all 5 stars, hundredes of thousands of dollars earned, yet nobody likes me (??????).

If I worked with algorithm or statistics (wait..... I do!!!!!!) there are very few REAL explanations to this. None of them related to algorithms, go figure.

That means that 35% of your clients are unhappy. That is a really low number, and your JSS will drop further if you don't improve. A little more self-awareness on what went wrong with which contracts can help you improve.

alphazomgy · ‎07-22-2019

Perhaps by now you've realized that most people don't care about JSS as much as you think, especially if you're still getting so many high paying clients?

You are making a big deal out of JSS when it seems that your clients don't care, otherwise they wouldn't hire you since your score got lower.

JSS is not as important as Upwork makes it out ot be. Although it does affect their algorithims, which is why it should be of some concern to us freelancers.

lysis10 · ‎07-22-2019

OP just casually forgot to mention that he "fired" a client less than a month ago and couldn't use the perk cuz he used it a few jobs prior.

I AM ALL FIVE STARSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!

Except, not really.

sergio-soria · ‎07-22-2019

Jennifer M wrote:
OP just casually forgot to mention that he "fired" a client less than a month ago and couldn't use the perk cuz he used it a few jobs prior.

I AM ALL FIVE STARSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111!!!
Except, not really.

OH! Well, that explains quite a bit. It's said that even if you use the perk the bad private feedback stays in the JSS calculation.

lysis10 · ‎07-22-2019

Sergio S wrote:
OH! Well, that explains quite a bit. It's said that even if you use the perk the bad private feedback stays in the JSS calculation.

It doesn't. He didn't have the perk available for the second bad outcome because he used it a few jobs earlier. Two really bad outcomes would probably put him in the low 90s depending on how many jobs he had in the last 6 months.

gaucho76 · ‎07-22-2019

No idea what you're talking about, I didn't "forget" anything. And yes, I "fired" a client as you say, because he was abusing my good will and required a lot of free stuff on an already very low pay . He refused to pay more so I gave him the original arranged work FOR FREE and closed the contract. Nevertheless, I'm in my right to close a contract, it's done everyday in real world, it's not liek I started yesterday.

I never lie or "forget", but it seems you love to talk about thing you have no idea about

sergio-soria · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
I never lie or "forget", but it seems you love to talk about thing you have no idea about

The point is that if you "fired" a client, that explains why you have 65% in the recommendation percentage. That client probably rated you pretty bad in private, even if you were right about not working for free, etc.

lysis10 · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
No idea what you're talking about, I didn't "forget" anything. And yes, I "fired" a client as you say, because he was abusing my good will and required a lot of free stuff on an already very low pay . He refused to pay more so I gave him the original arranged work FOR FREE and closed the contract. Nevertheless, I'm in my right to close a contract, it's done everyday in real world, it's not liek I started yesterday.

I never lie or "forget", but it seems you love to talk about thing you have no idea about

See. This is why you gotta take what these people and their "OMG I AM ALL FIVE STARS" say with a grain of salt. See how he forgot to mention that part? lol

joansands · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio - Why would you give the client the work you did for free? And, if you close a contract and nothing has been paid to you, that affects your JSS.

valery7777 · ‎07-22-2019

Not to hijack this thread, but my score just went from a 100% to an 80%. I don't think anyone has left negative private feedback because no contracts have closed recently. (I'm assuming feedback is left when a contract closes only?) I do have a couple of contracts that I have been hired for but have not started yet - it's for future work - would that negatively affect?

So frustrated and ridiculous that we can't get an answer. Thanks for any feedback.

gilbert-phyllis · ‎07-22-2019

Future contracts are irrelevant. What counts is closed contracts. You can't know what private feedback has been left and it weighs more than public fb in the JSS. Most telling factor is your 'clients who would recommend you' %. That updates on a different schedule than the JSS. If it's down, then you know that's the problem. Another thing that can make your JSS dip is when projects with good outcomes age out of your 24-month window, if you've had some less-than-great ones in the meantime which are still counting.

valery7777 · ‎07-22-2019

Thank you I'm fairly new and only have a few closed contracts. All public feedback is 5 star. I just looked at clients who would recommend me and there is no number, perhaps no one recommended me? Odd because each closed contract has rehired me. Very strange.

tlsanders · ‎07-22-2019

Valery G wrote:
Thank you I'm fairly new and only have a few closed contracts. All public feedback is 5 star. I just looked at clients who would recommend me and there is no number, perhaps no one recommended me? Odd because each closed contract has rehired me. Very strange.

If you only have a few contracts, you won't see that percentage yet.

ETA: Did you have a contract that you made a full refund on, or one that you accepted but then either you or the client ended up closing without any money changing hands?

petra_r · ‎07-22-2019

Valery G wrote:
I do have a couple of contracts that I have been hired for but have not started yet - it's for future work - would that negatively affect?

If either of those have been open for 2-3 months or more and nothing has ever been paid, then such a contract affects your JSS, yes. It can be fixed by a payment being made, however small ($ 1.00 or more.)

Fabio, if your private feedback percentage is 65% that means a hefty percentage of your clients over the years (it is a lifetime metric, not the best out of your 6 month, 12 month and 24 mont windows like the JSS) have left poor private feedback.65% is pretty shocking.

You may be the kind of person clients either love working with or can't stand working with as you clearly manage to foster successful relationships with long term clients.

tlsanders · ‎07-22-2019

Fabio D wrote:
No idea what you're talking about, I didn't "forget" anything. And yes, I "fired" a client as you say, because he was abusing my good will and required a lot of free stuff on an already very low pay . He refused to pay more so I gave him the original arranged work FOR FREE and closed the contract. Nevertheless, I'm in my right to close a contract, it's done everyday in real world, it's not liek I started yesterday.

I never lie or "forget", but it seems you love to talk about thing you have no idea about

The thing is, you acted like your score drop was a big mystery and demanded an explanation, but didn't mention an obvious negative that would impact JSS. Seems a bit disingenuous, don't you think?

gaucho76 · ‎07-23-2019

the thing is IN REAL WORLD contracts are closed every day. If teh client got what he wanted, why am I punished? I'd never, ever, EVER think that being honest would rank you worse instead of better. So yes, I didn't consider that because it never crossed my mind.

Let me see: the only system in which someone has to work for ever for free is **Edited for Community Guidelines**. yes or no? It's a simple question. Me closing a job from an abusing client because he refused to pay more for additional work even though I provided what we arranged is just something trivial and common in any business environment.... exception made of **Edited for Community Guidelines**. Yes or no? It's a simple question.

So yes, blame me because I would never think a professional environment acts as if **Edited for Community Guidelines** is the coolest thing and I didn't even think that would be possible. Oh yes I'm so guilty.

BUT....

you can see not a single person from UpWork jumped here. Not a single one.

Now, see this. From today:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

As you can see, UpWork is also blocking me from sending samples. It could be a coincidence, granted. We all know UpWork never tests anything before release and errors and bugs are extremely common. But it makes you think.... all of a sudden everything in UpWork's system works against me, all at the same time in a coordinated way. Possible? Yes, it's possible. Likely? Well... I don't see anyone complaining about all these things happening at the same time, so call me paranoid, call me the person with the worst luck in the world , call me a rebel **Edited for Community Guidelines** or whatever you like. But there's something called Occam's Razor. If you don't know what it is, do a search. Right now, there are 2 possible explanations: the paranoid/ bad luck/ rebel Occam's Razor one or one which is way more simple and explains everything without having to rely on planets alignment, coincidences and magic. Apply Occam's Razor and pick your choice.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

versailles · ‎07-23-2019

Fabio D wrote:

the thing is IN REAL WORLD contracts are closed every day. If teh client got what he wanted, why am I punished? I'd never, ever, EVER think that being honest would rank you worse instead of better. So yes, I didn't consider that because it never crossed my mind.

If your JSS is 95%, it's a great JSS. If 65% of your clients said that they will recommend you, it means that the 35% others said they wouldn't.

I have no idea what your rant about **Edited for Community Guidelines** has to do with anything. You're lucky Upwork takes other things into consideration for calculating the JSS and not only the private feedback.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light" —William Ashbless

tlbp · ‎07-23-2019

Rene K wrote:
Fabio D wrote:
the thing is IN REAL WORLD contracts are closed every day. If teh client got what he wanted, why am I punished? I'd never, ever, EVER think that being honest would rank you worse instead of better. So yes, I didn't consider that because it never crossed my mind.

If your JSS is 95%, it's a great JSS. If 65% of your clients said that they will recommend you, it means that the 35% others said they wouldn't.

I have no idea what your rant about slavery has to do with anything. You're lucky Upwork takes other things into consideration for calculating the JSS and not only the private feedback.

That's probably because you didn't look up Occam's razor. 🙄 How can you expect to be enlightened if you refuse to follow directions?

kochubei_valeria · ‎07-23-2019

Hi Fabio,

I checked and JSS calculation is working as designed. As others have pointed out on this thread it takes into consideration many factors besides public feedback including contracts that were closed with no money paid and no public feedback given.

Many successful freelancers have noted in this Community that managing their relationships with the client and communicating professionally from the very first contact and until after the contract is closed is a key to successful outcomes and good JSS. Discussing all the details, setting expectations for deliverables and payments before the offer is accepted helps avoid issues later on.

As for the message you mentioned in your latest post, I see you were able to send a different file. But I'll follow up with the team about the file that was blocked.

Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to remind everybody to be mindful of the Community Guidelines and stay professional when posting on this boards.

Thanks!

~ Valeria