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This is more of a rant...

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Ace Contributor
Jaime L Member Since: May 11, 2015
1 of 49

"Article writer needed - $1 per article!"

 

I'm not a writer, but I find these kinds of job postings to be disgusting and insulting! I cannot believe people actually apply to these. Yes, I know being cheap is allowed on the platform, but I wish it wasn't. I don't know what is the matter with people, expecting to get quality work at an embarrassing price like that? Lol

 

I feel like they have a lot of nerve even asking for that...

 

Why is there no "flag for cheapskate" option? Smiley Very Happy

 

I also wonder what Upwork tells clients is and isn't allowed on job postings? I'm wondering what it looks like. Do they actually have a list of rules pop up? I feel like way too many clients break the terms of service and seem to get away with it.

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Community Guru
Tony H Member Since: Nov 10, 2011
2 of 49

This used to be the hot topic on the forums before mad robot movement.

 

You'll get strong arguments from all sides. personally, I don't shun those postings because my view is sometimes clients just don;t have a budget for more... and when you start learning about minimum wages around teh world, $1/hr ain't a bad option. Also if you figure in things like high unemployment rates in many developing countries and a lack of government welfare system, it leaves people with some pretty desperate options to say the least. $1/hr (assuming it takes that long for an article)  may not be great, but it's better than a what some people's other options may be.

 

Ultimately, it's up to the freelancer to accept that $1. If they had better options, they wouldn't apply for the job. Take that $1 away from them because some petition for a Upwork governed minimum wage, and harm may come to those who needed it. As the saying goes, out of sight, out of mind. When those workers get cut off from this supply due to lack of demand at he lowest level.. the silently disappear and we all magically think things are better. But for them it's not.

 

There is no point arguing about what is right or wrong as each side seems to be justified. These types of platform are not meant for 'developed' country workers. The current state of these freelance platforms is filled with 'average' people from developed worlds, trying to start their own little small business with the least amount of money. Because they don't have much money, lol. A Full Green bar client here only needs to spend $10k. For anyone living in any major city in north America, that represents only 2-3 months worth of middle class income, for a single employee.

 

Sure there are some better clients, but have an honest look at what seems to be the majority. hundreds of thousands of micro jobs are being imported into developing countries, providing a minimal income to thousands of people who would otherwise go hungry or do very desperate things to feed their kids.

 

Ultimately. I do not beleive it's right or wrong, or that anyone should have a right to determine what a minimum should be for any type of work here. The ONLY person who has that right is the freelancer who see's this as a better opportunity than their local reality. They can say yes or no. The low end clients will go away if no one is willing to work for that rate.

 

These clients who pay the absolute least will never give anyone a serious career anyways. They are the last place anyone should look to, for online employment. Yet, the reality is there are far more workers who need them than there people hiring. it will never stop from a client's end.

 

Also, Upwork will (did actually) only inject a minimum wage into the mix for two possible reasons.

1. Legal (but they get away with it as a contracted based freelance business vs an employment agency)

2. It no longer make financial sense to maintain a business based on micro thin commission earnings.

 

Before anyone jumps on my back and throws assumptions out that I am 'probably' one of those...bla bla bla - I have hired fixed rate jobs, that equal about $2/hr. My average hiring rate is somewhere over $7/hr. From my personal account... which is tiny, the type of micro client I describe. Just spending some of my personal money on stupid ideas I seem to get from time to time. No harm done.

 

Take away that opportunity for micro jobs, you essentially put more control into the hands of those with more money... which causes larger gaps from the 'rich' and the poor. This is an opportunity for the poor in developed nations to break free from the rich, and provide a little side income for others who can appreciate it.

 

Internet employment is new in the past couple decades. it's an opportunity that never existed before. In my books, that is a gift. I'd rather borrow my neighbour's computer and internet a few hours a day than rummage through dumpsters for dinner or sell my body.

 

Let the market be free. It's the workers who set the price. Not the clients.

 

Maybe it's a bit of a relaity check for those who complain about wages and junk clients (yes, I complain too).. we're all here fishing for work in a third world market. Like... be real about that for a moment. We can't be complaining if we choose to scour the streets to collect pop bottles for dinner money - if we choose to do so. Hate to break it to the more privilaged side of freelancers here, but these freelancer markets are the equivilant of just that in the 'normal' job world.

Highlighted
Ace Contributor
Jaime L Member Since: May 11, 2015
3 of 49

@Tony H wrote:

This used to be the hot topic on the forums before mad robot movement.

 

You'll get strong arguments from all sides. personally, I don't shun those postings because my view is sometimes clients just don;t have a budget for more... and when you start learning about minimum wages around teh world, $1/hr ain't a bad option. Also if you figure in things like high unemployment rates in many developing countries and a lack of government welfare system, it leaves people with some pretty desperate options to say the least. $1/hr (assuming it takes that long for an article)  may not be great, but it's better than a what some people's other options may be.

 

Ultimately, it's up to the freelancer to accept that $1. If they had better options, they wouldn't apply for the job. Take that $1 away from them because some petition for a Upwork governed minimum wage, and harm may come to those who needed it. As the saying goes, out of sight, out of mind. When those workers get cut off from this supply due to lack of demand at he lowest level.. the silently disappear and we all magically think things are better. But for them it's not.

 

There is no point arguing about what is right or wrong as each side seems to be justified. These types of platform are not meant for 'developed' country workers. The current state of these freelance platforms is filled with 'average' people from developed worlds, trying to start their own little small business with the least amount of money. Because they don't have much money, lol. A Full Green bar client here only needs to spend $10k. For anyone living in any major city in north America, that represents only 2-3 months worth of middle class income, for a single employee.

 

Sure there are some better clients, but have an honest look at what seems to be the majority. hundreds of thousands of micro jobs are being imported into developing countries, providing a minimal income to thousands of people who would otherwise go hungry or do very desperate things to feed their kids.

 

Ultimately. I do not beleive it's right or wrong, or that anyone should have a right to determine what a minimum should be for any type of work here. The ONLY person who has that right is the freelancer who see's this as a better opportunity than their local reality. They can say yes or no. The low end clients will go away if no one is willing to work for that rate.

 

These clients who pay the absolute least will never give anyone a serious career anyways. They are the last place anyone should look to, for online employment. Yet, the reality is there are far more workers who need them than there people hiring. it will never stop from a client's end.

 

Also, Upwork will (did actually) only inject a minimum wage into the mix for two possible reasons.

1. Legal (but they get away with it as a contracted based freelance business vs an employment agency)

2. It no longer make financial sense to maintain a business based on micro thin commission earnings.

 

Before anyone jumps on my back and throws assumptions out that I am 'probably' one of those...bla bla bla - I have hired fixed rate jobs, that equal about $2/hr. My average hiring rate is somewhere over $7/hr. From my personal account... which is tiny, the type of micro client I describe. Just spending some of my personal money on stupid ideas I seem to get from time to time. No harm done.

 

Take away that opportunity for micro jobs, you essentially put more control into the hands of those with more money... which causes larger gaps from the 'rich' and the poor. This is an opportunity for the poor in developed nations to break free from the rich, and provide a little side income for others who can appreciate it.

 

Internet employment is new in the past couple decades. it's an opportunity that never existed before. In my books, that is a gift. I'd rather borrow my neighbour's computer and internet a few hours a day than rummage through dumpsters for dinner or sell my body.

 

Let the market be free. It's the workers who set the price. Not the clients.

 

Maybe it's a bit of a relaity check for those who complain about wages and junk clients (yes, I complain too).. we're all here fishing for work in a third world market. Like... be real about that for a moment. We can't be complaining if we choose to scour the streets to collect pop bottles for dinner money - if we choose to do so. Hate to break it to the more privilaged side of freelancers here, but these freelancer markets are the equivilant of just that in the 'normal' job world.


Hi, I see your point, which is very valid. I still feel like these people who are struggling deserve to make more than $1 per hour. I feel like these "clients" are taking advantage of their desperation (if you can call it that). Most of these job postings that I see are originating from VERY developed countries. I just don't see an excuse for that. 

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Community Guru
Sandra T Member Since: Nov 26, 2014
4 of 49

"I find these kinds of job postings to be disgusting and insulting!"

 

If so, you are taking them way too personally. They are aiming for a different target group of freelancers, so why not just ignore them?

 

 

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Community Guru
Natasa M Member Since: May 8, 2014
5 of 49

About low rates...I  think that there are many people who are hobbyists as well (from all countries in the world), and they have some other primary source of income. There are also many young people who see their experience here as some sort of internship. They work for a while, then they grow up and have to pay the bills so they disappear and get replaced by others- new, eager and fresh ...I mean, it is what it is.

 

**edited for Community Guidelines**

 

 

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Moderator
Vladimir G Moderator Member Since: Oct 31, 2014
6 of 49

Hi Setu and Ramon,

 

I appreciate your participation in the Community forums, but on occasion a useful and practical discussion will devolve into something we need to remove. We moderate the forums as best we can in accordance with our Community Guidelines, so please be considerate of this in your future replies.

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Community Guru
Ian David John E Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
7 of 49

How is $0.20 & $1.00 per hour jobs good for Upwork as Upwork will not even earn anything out of that? Upwork needs to do the right thing here!

 

Also Upwork changed its name to change its image how is this helping by letting such low hourly rates on this platform?

 

I would like and answer please.....

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Community Guru
Douglas Michael M Member Since: May 22, 2015
8 of 49

@Ian David John E wrote:

How is $0.20 & $1.00 per hour jobs good for Upwork as Upwork will not even earn anything out of that? Upwork needs to do the right thing here!


Upwork earns the same amount from a million $2 jobs as it does from ten thousand $200 jobs. It's the classic discounter's strategy: make it up in volume. Of course the strategy that works for Upwork cannot work in the same way for contractors.

 

To Upwork, or any capitalist corporation, the first "right thing" to do is make a profit. See above.

 

Best,

Michael

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Community Guru
Aleksandra K Member Since: Mar 31, 2015
9 of 49

If you find those of $1 “disgusting and insulting” try those that offer $0.2 per 200 hundred words! 

And the best part is that they usually put something like: UNIQUE CONTENT, I WILL CHECK, ONLY QUAITY WRITERS bla…bla… and a 300 hundred word description stating what this writer should deliver!

 

I’ve had people sending me offers with that rate and I agree it is completely unacceptable. However, when I was trying to get my first job on Upwork I was going for projects that offer less money, as I had no experience and it was difficult to get those that offer “more”.

 

I still have one or two clients who don’t pay me “enough” but they are now my long term clients and I feel obligated towards them. They know that their rate is low, but I believe that is all they can afford.  

 

So to answer your question – Yes they do expect to get quality work, and often they do, because there are a lot of freelancers here who need to start from somewhere Smiley Very Happy

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Community Guru
Isabelle Anne A Member Since: May 19, 2014
10 of 49

Setu's & Ramon's posts were deleted - that's so strange! Can't remember anything offensive about them (maybe the "exploitation" part - making remarks about Upwork users?). Anyway, although I completely agree with the OP, Tony made some interesting points that made me somewhat reconsider my attitude toward this subject.

 

EDIT: I guess what really irritates me is that those clients who pay ridiculously low rates come to me with job invites & offers. Even though my hourly rate is plain and clear, a lot of them assume that I'll be grateful for a $1-$3/hr job offer - perhaps because I'm living in a third world country! (Which happens to be a ridiculously expensive place to live in btw.)

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