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This should be one of the problems!

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Community Guru
Wassim T Member Since: May 29, 2015
1 of 14

Here's one of the problems:

 

 

Yes... Exactly here: 

 

and-this.png

 

Come on people! I never worked per hour except for one project only to test it out and I didn't even like it. I have 16 hours logged from one single job so clients won't even look at my profile because there's very little hours worked. This explains what's going on... Why nobody's even responding to me recently on Upwork!

 

Did Upwork think that there's many many people who don't work per hour and prefer Fixed Price jobs? The Elance platform was more oriented into Fixed Price jobs too so I believe this explains the complains coming from Elancers recently in here. Why don't you put at least the number of jobs next to hours worked. I even prefer if you just delete this information from that screen completely! Let the client visit our profile to find out more. I have over 80 completed jobs and over 50 unique clients! So in Upwork's vision someone who's completed 1 job with 20 hours is more qualified than I am and have more experience on Upwork!

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Community Guru
Jean S Member Since: Oct 22, 2007
2 of 14

I hate to say it but that's not the problem. I have over 800 hours and I don't get jobs either. As well, that 3 person view you just saw is "set up". That's not how it looks in the real world of clients. It's also possible that the 1000 hours was a requirement by the customer in the video and not the actual hours those people worked. 3 people with exactly 1000 hours?? 

 

Do you have a client account Wassim?

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Community Guru
Wassim T Member Since: May 29, 2015
3 of 14

Hi Jean,

 

I do have a client account but never posted a job before because I didn't want to waste other freelancer's connects just for the sake of testing how this works. I'll be posting a real job next week so hopefully that's going to allow me to see how it works for real.

 

I have based my opinion on the video Upwork uploaded to their YouTube channel. If that's not correct then I think Upwork did capture this in the wrong way then.

 

Thanks for the information. I'll fix up the title as per your suggestion then. Thanks again.

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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 14

I agree that it should show both number of projects and hours worked.

 

I disagree that it should not show the hours worked at all. This might suit you, but would not suit those who have worked lots of hours

 

People with lots of hours are not automatically shown first. Chances are this sample was set up with  (1000+ hours) as a requirement hence is showing those who match all the client's requirements first - also this is an invite only job so it looks like they used people with 1000+ hours as an example.

 

In a real life setting you'd see people with less hours up there just as much. This was for a video, those are not "real"

 

I have over 80 completed jobs and over 50 unique clients! So in Upwork's vision someone who's completed 1 job with 20 hours is more qualified than I am and have more experience on Upwork!

 

How did you reach that conclusion? Where does "one job with 20 hours" even come into it? Let alone as a criterium of being more qualified? Again, in a real job posting the applicants will not be listed in hour order unless the client specifically changes the setting to view them in the order of most hours worked.

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Community Guru
Wassim T Member Since: May 29, 2015
5 of 14

Thanks for the information, Petra. Like I explained to Jean above, I haven't tried to post a job to Upwork yet and I concluded this based on their video.

 

I think they should have made it clear in their video that this job had a requirement of 1000+ worked hours. As an end user I couldn't understand this by myself without your & Jean's help!

 

And I agree with you displaying both information will be fair because displaying only one part of the puzzle sounds fair for people who operate only on hourly jobs.

 

Thanks Petra. Your contribution is highly appreciated.

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Ace Contributor
Vadivelan R Member Since: Aug 28, 2015
6 of 14

@Wassim
There are many places in which a client can see the applicants' details. In all the places, they can only see the hours worked. Not even in a single place they show the "No of Projects Completed".

 

If you look at your profile, upwork shows No of Hours Worked in first line and No of Projects completed in the second line. People tends to assume that we worked xx hours in xx projects. This is totally misleading.

 

If Upwork wants to fairly handle this issue, they may have 3 choices:

 

1. Leave the option to freelancer. They can set the below in settings:
Show only No of hours worked
Show only No of projects completed
Show both No of hours worked & No of projects completed ( which one first? Smiley Tongue )

 

2. In a fixed price project, show "No of Projects Completed" to client.
In a hourly project, show "No of Hours worked" to client.

 

3. As we know that Upwork has a special liking to Hourly Projects and if decides to show only No of Hours Worked.. atleast they may do something like this:

 

Total Hours Worked = Total Hours in Hourly project + ( Total Money Earned in fixed price jobs / Hourly Rate )

 

To avoid abuse, Upwork can set a minimum hourly rate ( say $15 ) for this calculation, if one's hourly rate is less than that.

 

If you have any other idea, please share.

 

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Community Guru
Wassim T Member Since: May 29, 2015
7 of 14

Amazing ideas, Vadivelan.

 

I personally would love to see option #2 implemented. Show number of completed jobs on Escrow Projects, and number of worked hours on Hourly Jobs. This seems the best work-around for this problem. Let's hope they consider this to be added soon!

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Community Guru
Stephen B Member Since: Dec 4, 2012
8 of 14

All very well, except that Upwork has a fatal flaw in its overall mentality. It seriously believes that everything should be reduced to one piece of information. And if they ever introduce a metric somewhere, it will always be at the expense of another metric somewhere else. Their overall mantra is "less information is better". They try to justify this by trumpeting about the quality of their metrics (quality rather than quantity). But it's like being in a four-star restaurant where the new chef insists on putting all the gourmet dishes through a blender and serving them up in a soupdish with a spoon.

 

Apart from that, of course, I have to say I really like the new-look Upwork. (No, really - I have to.)

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Community Guru
Cathleen C Member Since: Aug 17, 2015
9 of 14

And I see another potential flawed metric in that video. A client puts out a request for proposals. 10 people respond. The client doesn't think a particular freelancer matches that particular job, so he x's out that freelancer, and chooses a reason why he doesn't want to use that freelancer. Depending on the reason they chose, and whether or not the algorithm actually works correctly, that client may never see your proposal again.

 

Here are the reasons:

OK but not quite right

Clearly not qualified

qualified, but too expensive

Poor comments in work history

Poor quality cover letter

Other

Report to Upwork

 

And then the big yellow button marked Hide. So that freelancers proposal gets hidden for that job. Do all proposals that a freelancer submits to this client, from that point on, get hidden? Can we really trust this algorithm to make the right choices in the future, based on this one answer?

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Community Guru
Evelina H Member Since: Jan 29, 2015
10 of 14

I suppose that's why almost all of us experience difficulties finding work on upwork lately. How many of us had sent 10+ proposals and received responses on half of these? I get 1 response of 15 proposals, and that's a first in my humble experience here! I guess it's that 'X' at the top right corner that is to be blamed. Oh, and a video like that, too.

 

If you look at it from a client's perspective, you see this: a list of profiles, with selected metrics and the client is advised to look at the hailed and 'abysmally (in)accurate' ( Cat Frustrated ) job success score. I wonder, if anyone knows, when does the client actually see the cover letter sent with the proposal? If they just look at the JS and think 'Hmm, I don't like that guy, he's got merely 85% JS, and I don't like his mustache', then they won't even look further in their profile, let alone read the proposal. Anyone, please prove me wrong! I'd like to know that my cover letters are being read. I write unique cover letters every time I apply. I never use templates (like many other freelancers). Is it worth  spending 10 mins in making a decent proposal for every unique client?

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