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Time Tracker 10 minutes interval

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
11 of 40

Marlene B wrote:

Yes, Tiffany S, that actually is Upworks answer to the problem.  We have directly been told by three different members and supervisors of their support team that If we do not want to pay for 9 minutes of non-logged time when the FL logs in at 9 minutes into the 10 minute window (or any other increment), that the only solution is for them to sit and wait for a 10 minute increment to start and since it is regulated by the screen shot, they have to sit there until whatever time the screen shot happens before beginning work, otherwise they lose income for the minutes prior to that. 

 

That's obviously terrible advice and I don't blame you for being frustrated. But, 

I've been freelancing for 30 years, and I'm just struggling to imagine a scenario in which I knew I needed to start work exactly at 10:30 so ran over and sat down to twiddle my thumbs at my computer at 10:21. 

 

And, no, Tiffany S, we cannot actually confirm what the freelancer was paid, there are fees on both sides and foreign exchanges that make it very difficult to verify anything. 

Okay. I can't imagine spending money in a business setting without educating myself about each of those parameters and being able to do the math, but to each his own.

 

 So if I have to create some drama to get this company to fix what is assuredly costing other businesses besides ours thousands and possibly tens of thousands of dollars per year, I'm ok with that.  If you're not, don't read my post.

 

You're completely missing my point. Almost no one will read a post like the one you wrote, with hundreds of words and lots of angst and capital letters. If your actual goal is to get something done rather than to just vent your upset, then writing clear, to-the-point posts that people will read is a much more likely route than stamping "just ranting...ignore me" on your forehead before you get started.

 

Again, if any leadership in this company are willing to actually address this, feel free to contact me.

Hopefully, one person who works for Upwork read this far. I'm putting the odds at about 10%.


 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
12 of 40

Marlene B wrote:

I'm always told I can't talk to this manager or that supervisor - that they have no contact information available for clients like me to speak to them. 


That is because it would be a waste of their time and yours.

 

They are not going to change the way they run their business because one client screams down the phone at them.

The best you can hope for is "Thanks for your feedback, we'll make sure to share it with the team."

Active Member
Marlene B Member Since: Apr 15, 2019
13 of 40

Upworks payment protection is worthless.  If we contest the logged on/off time in any 10 minute segment of the work diary it affects our freelancers' ratings.  The awesome solution would be for upwork to accurately bill for only time logged on and off the system and have the accountability tracker for checking up on freelancers.  instead we are billed the full 10 minutes whether they are logged on or not for that whole ten minute period - as I have posted previously we paid a FL for 90 hours, the system showed they had worked 90 hours when in fact they had only worked 80.  this adds up to hundreds of dollars very quickly.  the system is the problem - theses nonsensical bandaids you are all suggesting don't fix a decapitation. since you are a manager, perhaps you can do the right thing and push this legitimate dishonest issue up the food chain to management to fix.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
14 of 40

Marlene B wrote:

Upworks payment protection is worthless.  If we contest the logged on/off time in any 10 minute segment of the work diary it affects our freelancers' ratings.


It doesn't (affect their rating)

Have you ever tried communicating with your freelancers to set proper expectations? If you need eager little worker ants who are chained to their computer hammering away every second so you don't feelthe overwhelming urge to dispute, tell them that is what you expect.

 

Maybe warn applicants that this is how you run your business, so those who like to have a normal relationship with their clients can avoid your jobs.

 


Marlene B wrote:

 since you are a manager,


Who are you talking to?

Active Member
Marlene B Member Since: Apr 15, 2019
15 of 40

Another inappropriate response that doesn't address the problem. It is obvious in every post I've made that we are doing everything possible to protect our freelancers and to show them how much we value them.  And yes, Petra R, it does affect their ratings.  According the customer service manager we spoke to if we contest anything on the work diary it negatively affects their score. The same manager also said if the FL issues a refund for minutes they were paid for and didn't work, this also affects their score.  Of course we have communicated and set expectations and they are doing their best with a flawed system.  If they log out 2 minutes into a 10 minute segement we are billed for the 8 minutes.  The system makes no sense and doesn't work transparently or honestly.  And you have no idea whatsoever how we run our business so please dispense with your **Edited for Community Guidelines** and either address the issue or stay out of the conversation.  The timetracker in Upwork overbills clients - this is a fact.  And there is nothing the freelancers or client can do except try and get Upwork to fix it.

 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
16 of 40

Marlene B wrote:

And yes, Petra R, it does affect their ratings. 


It does not. That is absolute nonsense.

 


Marlene B wrote:

According the customer service manager we spoke to if we contest anything on the work diary it negatively affects their score. The same manager also said if the FL issues a refund for minutes they were paid for and didn't work, this also affects their score.

Both statements are entirely untrue. Fact. You either misunderstood, or were misinformed. Either way, it's nonsense.

 


Marlene B wrote:

If they log out 2 minutes into a 10 minute segement we are billed for the 8 minutes. 

 


This is also demonstrating a lack of understanding how it works.

Most of the time you would not be charged, because most of the time, if someone logs out 2 minutes into the segment, no screenshot will have been taken. Segments without a screenshot are not charged.

 

That's why it evens out. If freelancers don't want to go by proper 10 minte segments, sometimes they will get paid for the last segment even though they logged out at XX.05 and the screenshot happened at XX.03, sometimes they won't get paid for 8 minutes because they logged out at XX.08 and no screenshot had happened in that segment yet.

 

Overall it evens out unless a freelancer is playing the clock.

 

If you are so concerned about this, go with fixed rate contracts, then you won't have to worry about minutes here or there.

 

Active Member
Marlene B Member Since: Apr 15, 2019
17 of 40

the world according to Petra R.  It appears you are calling an actual employee of Upwork - a customer service manager - a liar. I'll be sure and let her know your unqualified opinion since we have a phone call scheduled for tomorrow.  BTW, she is the same person that is both an UW client and freelancer and she does not use the upwork system for hourly work for the same complaint I have raised.  She has her freelancers log their time outside of upwork in separate software as others here in this thread have suggested (and were promptly redacted) because the timekeeping is inaccurate on UW and SHE doesn't want to overpay. Regardless, I neither misheard nor did she misspeak. Is she completely wrong about both items?  Highly unlikely.  Are you possibly wrong?  highly likely.  In addition, she sent the work diary time log in question to engineering, they ran totals on the same 90 hours that we saw the discrepancies and indeed came back with the same conclusion that only 80 hours were worked but we were billed for 90.  It does NOT average out for the person paying the bill.  And it is not a few minutes here and there. We overpaid by nearly $250 just for that one contract.  The freelancer offered to refund it but when I found out it would affect their score from Upwork management I told her not to as we value her more than the money.  You have no facts about us, our business, or how much we care, so keep your **Edited for Community Guidelines** opinions to yourself - they were not solicited. My posts are here as a warning to other businesses and in the hopes UW will pay attention to Customer Retention.  

 

Your **Edited for Community Guidelines** solutions are for everyone to work around a flawed system - including the latest to only participate in fixed price contracts.  You just can't bring yourself to say it, can you?  Upwork needs to address the timeclock vs. screen shot in the work diary and stop overbilling customers for nonwork minutes.  We are using the same imperfect workaround you are using - but that's a work around, not a solution to the problem.  You have no solution to suggest so I leave you to whatever **Edited for Community Guidelines** you want to make up next.  

Moderator
Vladimir G Moderator Member Since: Oct 31, 2014
18 of 40

Marlene,

 

I understand you're frustrated by the problem you're having on your contract but I'd like to kindly ask you not to disparage or make personal attacks against other Community users. Please check our Community Guidelines and let's continue the conversation in a professional and friendly tone. Thank you.

Active Member
Marlene B Member Since: Apr 15, 2019
19 of 40

Oh, you mean disparaging and personal attacks like Petra R made:

 

"If you need eager little worker ants who are chained to their computer hammering away every second so you don't feelthe overwhelming urge to dispute, tell them that is what you expect.

 

Maybe warn applicants that this is how you run your business, so those who like to have a normal relationship with their clients can avoid your jobs."

 

No, that's not disparaging or personal at all.  

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
20 of 40

Marlene B wrote:

the world according to Petra R.  It appears you are calling an actual employee of Upwork - a customer service manager - a liar. I'll be sure and let her know your unqualified opinion since we have a phone call scheduled for tomorrow.  BTW, she is the same person that is both an UW client and freelancer and she does not use the upwork system for hourly work for the same complaint I have raised.  She has her freelancers log their time outside of upwork in separate software as others here in this thread have suggested (and were promptly redacted) because the timekeeping is inaccurate on UW and SHE doesn't want to overpay. Regardless, I neither misheard nor did she misspeak. Is she completely wrong about both items?  Highly unlikely.  Are you possibly wrong?  highly likely. 


 

If the above was indeed said by an Upwork employee, I am sure that person's manager will have some uncomfortable questions for her.

Luckily all calls are recorded, so it'll be easy to prove.

Either way.

 

Fact: Refunding or removing time segments has no effect, whatsoever, at all, in any way, shape or form on the freelancer's metrics.

Fact: Disputing  time segments has no effect, whatsoever, at all, in any way, shape or form on the freelancer's metrics.

 

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