Today I dont know if I just got scammed by a client or by upwork or by both? Help me!

[#1]

So there was this client who hired me to do a voice over job about a month ago. Everything went well, the contract was 350$, so after upwork fee 20% (70$), I had 280$ in my account. Well, isnt that completed? I got my job done and I got paid and I also paid 20% charge to upwork fee. Now, this morning, I recieved an email from Upwork telling me that, the client of this contract had their bank reverse back their payment, so Upwork is freezing my balance and asked me to pay them back 350$ or else my balance will be frozen and they will pull the fund out of my available balance. This means that, even after I completed the job and ended the contract, I still risk getting scammed? Not only do I have to pay back for my job, but I also have to pay full price 350$? How about the 70$(20%) that they deducted from then? So, I got scammed by the client 350$, then 70$ more from upwork? Is this a joke or something?

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[#2]

The client scammed you, not upwork. Upwork does not earn their fee when the client initates a chargeback. 

As you were told, you need to take that up with your client. Upwork can't do anything if they go to their bank and charge back that payment, except banning the client since this is not allowed. 

[#3]

Hello, Martina, thank you for your reply.

[#4]

but how is banning a con artist going to help with anything? What about upwork payment protection thing? Is it just for show?

[#5]

Payment protection isn't quite just for show, but there is no protection for fixed-price contracts. You're a bit safer with properly-logged hourly contracts as Upwork pays out of its own pocket if something goes wrong with the client.

[#6]

If you use the automatic hourly tracker correctly, Upwork will pay for those hours, but there are limitations and rules the freelancer must follow. Milestones are helpful on jobs for fixed price to limit the amount of money for a chargeback, but you won't receive your money.

The ads for payment protection do seem to at least hint that everything is safe, but that has a lot of limitations. Upwork does nothing for chargebacks; no business will go up against the banks. Usually, Upwork is only missing their fee and have not lost money, they just didn't make any money. It's the freelancer who suffers. Therfore, protect yourself because no one else will. In most cases, the chargeback is on a job with many red flags.

[#7]

finally an honest response that doesnt seem to be so biased on upwork's side. everybody else is just defending the platform isntead of pointing out what needs improvments. 

[#8]

Payment protection only applies in very specific circumstances, and is by no means a protection against scams. 

but how is banning a con artist going to help with anything?

He can never do it again to anybody else on upwork, which is a good thing. Upwork does not have the time or money to sue clients that don't pay, or even the legal grounds since they are just the middleman and not the contractual party, so they need to have another form of remedy for that, which is banning the client.

[#9]

im sure they can come back with a hundred more accounts.

[#10]

Except that he can't go after the client.

The ONLY exception to this is if he receives the funds through Upwork.  Thats it.  And, according to his post, we see how well that played out.

Upwork will slap you with sanctions if they suspect you are attempting to collect outside of their website.  Even mailing the client a collections invoice can get your account suspended or banned.

[#11 · Accepted solution]

Hi SokSambath, 

I'm sorry to hear that this happened to you. Unfortunately, freelancers have been reporting a lot of chargeback scams in the last six months or so. 

I think that everyone who works on Upwork should read this article because scams are becoming more popular.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Community-Blog/Top-Red-Flags-for-Scams-From-Community-Member-Wes-C/b...

Was there anything that seemed odd about the contract otherwise? It looks like the client asked you to do a 5-minute voice over. I don't know how much time it takes to produce 5 minutes of clear audio, but $350 seems like a largish budget for what might be an hour or two of work (but maybe not outrageous because it looks like it was a very last-minute request).

In retrospect, was there anything that seemed unusual about the script? 

[#12]

i knew something was off with this client, he wanted me to do another contract with another post of his other account, and that was when I knew that it seemed like a pattern of a scammer of some sort. Then I declined his offer and he blocked me and weeks later, this is what I get. I just never knew that upwork could let someone do that to freelancers even after the payment is released and the contract has already ended, this is just so funny somehow!

[#13]

I'm glad you didn't do a second job.

It's probably hard to learn this when you've been working on the platform for a while, but Upwork doesn't screen or vet clients. The view is that they provide a marketplace for clients and freelancers to interact, so I think sometimes people have a false sense of security about certain things. As freelancers, we really have to keep our wits about us.

Upwork generally wants to make it as easy as possible for clients to set up an account because clients are how we all make money. Some people think that if Upwork had any client onboarding process at all, clients might be put off signing up to post jobs because this would make it too much work, or make it too time consuming, or whatever. I'm not sure I agree with this view, but most of the time, using Upwork works well for me.  Fortunately, I check the forum frequently enough to learn from the experiences of other freelancers.

Also, it's not really Upwork doing this. It seems like the "client" in this case could have paid the contract amount on a stolen credit card (that's the usual story with chargebacks, but there are some variations). The reason it doesn't show up right away is that credit card bills are sent out once a month. So the real card owner doesn't see the Upwork charge until they get the bill. And then they call their card company to initiate a chargeback because they don't recognize the company name. It's not unusual to see freelancers who have been scammed posting about chargebacks happening 30 days after the contract. With some payment methods, chargebacks can happen as much as 180 days after the contract was paid out.

So this is something to really think about if someone offers you a job that sounds "too good to be true."

Because you're dealing with a scammer, I don't know if there's something Upwork can do so you're not charged the Upwork fees. I know this comes up frequently enough that there should be some kind of procedure in place to handle it.

[#14]

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Renata S wrote:

Upwork generally wants to make it as easy as possible for clients to set up an account because clients are how we all make money. 

---

Thats the problem.

I realy thinks that all clients must have their IDs verified before posting jobs. Clients can´t set up an account easily.

Upwork must get note of the following:

1 - We freelancers wants legit job posts.
2 - We can´t make money with fake post jobs.

So it is completely useless letting anyone set up a client account and posting jobs, we have no guarantee that job posts will be legit. But, if Upwork makes clients have ID verified, or makes a client account more harder to be seted up, we will be much more sure that most of the job posts will be legit.

I prefer to see just 1 new job in my feed, but a legit job, than see 200 new job posts but all fakes.

If the number of fake jobs conitues to grow up, freelancers and legit clients will leave.

What makes this platform going on is legit jobs post, not a high number of jobs post. It is completely useless having 2000 of fake jobs.

[#15]

Hi Andre,

I get it. I'm with you. I think most of my clients wouldn't mind a bit if someone explained that verifying their identity was helpful in creating a safe, positive environment. But some imaginary guys in corporate who want to post now, now, now always seem to take center stage.  And, oh my god! Register a payment method? Most people do that with Netfix, so what gives?

[#16]

in this case, i think upwork itself is too greedy to have clients on their platform so much so that they dont care if they clients are fradulant or not because they dont lose anything anyways, as freelancers are the one who have to payback and return all the money. Renata, please try to see things from both sides of the issue instead of picking a side and then build your opinions around them. 

[#17]

It's no joke. What happened is called a chargeback. Scammers set up jobs using stolen credit cards. By the time the bank that issued the card realizes someone stole the number, they freeze all assets until the matter is resolved, but the damage is done. It is supposed to be resolved within 90 days.

There are actually two kinds of chargebacks but the effects are the same. The card is usually stolen, but in some cases, it is a client who wants the work for free. Upwork is supposed to suspend the client for doing a chargeback, but they return and use another fake name.

It would seem this job had red flags including a lot of money for a brief voiceover. It doesn't seem to be your usual rate. This is a red flag, warning you to be cautious. Most clients underbid for jobs, not over. When you think you can make a lot of money for not much effort, it is a scam.

Unfortunately, you will never see the money. You can provide evidence to the bank and Upwork will pass along documents but there is no help. Until the banks and businesses are held financially accountable, nothing will change. As Renata said, read the red flag article from Wes. If you don't protect yourself, you will be scammed repeatedly. Don't let money cloud your judgment.

[#18]

thanks for your responses, everyone. nothing i can do, my fund has already been stripped out whether i want or agree to it or not. i dont think upwork or the bank will do anything to help, i just dont feel safe working on the platform anymore knowing that even if the job is completed and everything is settled, i still risk being scammed and got the money all taken away like it's nothing. 

[#19]

If this is a concern, then only use hourly contracts with Payment Protection.

[#20]

Try to select clients with a proven history here on Upwork, good reviews and a decent amount of money spent so far, and you will be on the safer side.

[#21]

Hi SokSambath,

It's a bad experience, but I've been working on the platform for a long time, and I've never had an issue with a chargeback. It might be the type of clients I work with, but sometimes it's just taking a bit of time to check in with myself if anything seems out of the ordinary with a potential offer.

It's good to learn what to say no to. I said no to someone a few months ago because the person kept telling me I was the only one who could do a particular kind of job (I didn't think this was true), and offered me significantly more than my normal rate to do their job.  Something felt off to me, so I didn't accept the offer, even though it paid really well.

I've been to Cambodia and experienced what it's like shopping in the marketplaces there. As a non-Cambodian, I always understood that I would probably be charged a lot more for stuff than the average Cambodian, and bargaining was challenging for me initially.

I think this is more true of Thailand and Vietnam, but if someone offered me a lot of stuff for a really cheap price, it automatically made me wonder about the offer and what new and unusual charges the vendor would come up with that I needed to pay to walk away with something that was actually useful.

For me, bargaining on Upwork is normally nothing compared to bargaining in Asian markets, but you still have to stay aware of who the trusted buyers and sellers are. If you build good relationships, the trades work out for everyone. If you see something new from a new buyer or seller that seems like an outrageous bargain or an outrageous windfall, you can take it as a sign to check it out as much as you can or maybe just walk away. So maybe it would be helpful to think of Upwork as a marketplace in the same sense a real marketplace (though it's supposed to be functioning on a more professional level, the rules of engagement seem similar).

And like anything else, it can help to ask other people what reasonable deals look like.

[#22]

It's certainly your decision, but if you spend time looking at the job and the situation, you can avoid the scams.

[#23]

Actually, it sounds like the scammers screwed up in your case. Normally, they offer to pay you $50. Then they drop $350 into your account "by accident" and ask you to refund the difference. If the freelancers do that and the real card owner does a chargeback, freelancers are sometimes stuck having to pay back the full amout.

If it's any consolation, it seems like you were working with a dumber kind of scammer.

[#24]

@SokSambath P - I just want to chime in here based on some of these comments. First, we all know there are a lot of "did I get scammed?" posts on this forum. The answer is almost always 'yes,' of course. But I'm noticing a more frequent trend of victim blaming as these posts continue. 

Some commenters are saying the fact that the client paid you $350 was a red flag. Sure, it's logical to ask, "Is this too good to be true?" But it's important to mention that our profile hourly rates don't necessarily dictate what our fixed-price project rates are. For me, I create fixed-priced rates based on the VALUE I'm providing, not how much time something takes me or how long the deliverable is. 

People can look at a task and tell me, "That should only take you 2-3 hours," but that doesn't mean I'm charging 2-3 hours of work. In short, the length of the voiceover you provided to the client is irrelevant. Your pricing is likely based on not just the project's scope, but the desired outcome from your client.

Scams aside, I just wanted to bring this up to you @SokSambath P so that you aren't feeling like the work you provided isn't worth what you charged. 

[#25]

---

Katie K wrote:

@SokSambath P - I just want to chime in here based on some of these comments. First, we all know there are a lot of "did I get scammed?" posts on this forum. The answer is almost always 'yes,' of course. But I'm noticing a more frequent trend of victim blaming as these posts continue. 

Some commenters are saying the fact that the client paid you $350 was a red flag. Sure, it's logical to ask, "Is this too good to be true?" But it's important to mention that our profile hourly rates don't necessarily dictate what our fixed-price project rates are. For me, I create fixed-priced rates based on the VALUE I'm providing, not how much time something takes me or how long the deliverable is. 

People can look at a task and tell me, "That should only take you 2-3 hours," but that doesn't mean I'm charging 2-3 hours of work. In short, the length of the voiceover you provided to the client is irrelevant. Your pricing is likely based on not just the project's scope, but the desired outcome from your client.

Scams aside, I just wanted to bring this up to you @SokSambath P so that you aren't feeling like the work you provided isn't worth what you charged. 

---

Hi Kate,

As far as I'm aware, I'm the only one who asked about the $350 rate. My reason for doing so was not to question OP's rates or to make him feel bad if that was a rate he suggested. I wanted to know if there something that seemed out about the job.

I had already looked up the job posting, and that's the budget the client was offering for the job. This seemed high for the amount of work I reasoned it might take (based on audio work I've done in the past and a general knowledge of the rates clients seem to offer on this platform for similar work, which are often low).  Also, $350 seems to be a common going price for chargeback scams lately.

Can you point out something specific I said that might suggest my intent struck you as blaming the victim? That was never my intent. I was trying to take some care with my wording because I don't appreciate the trend you've mentioned either.

Because there are a lot of scams circulating on the platform at the moment, I think it's good for people to understand that they sometimes need to question what clients are offering them and whether anything seems odd about it. Upwork doesn't vet clients (and never has), so freelancers need to become savvy at screening them.