Solved: Totally discusted in dispute outcome.

liquidmuse · ‎07-04-2019

I am discusted in the way this place has conducted a recent dispute review. I'm fuming! I've an unblemished reputation here and been working for a couple of yearsa now and this is how they treat me?

So a new client comes to Upwork, and awards me the project (musical). He states something is missing from my work and I try and rectify the issue. It often happens as we all know. But instead of engaging with me he immediately closes the contract and refuses to pay instead of entering into discussion with me to fix any issues. I have done nothing wrong, and wasted 4 hours work.

So despite me following all the guidelines in trying to reach agreament, I suddenly get a notification today that I am in the wrong and will not get paid because they believe this guy. I can garauntee he is in the wrong both in terms of how he should not have immediately closed the contract,and also in terms of his asertions. If anyone is interested, I will happily link you to my work and his claims.

Upwork, you are wrong. Does anyone know if I can object? If not, I'm off out of this place. No justice AT ALL. I'm seriously insulted and furious with this!

BojanS · ‎07-04-2019

Sorry to hear you had issues with your client and contract, Rob.

I just wanted to make sure you saw the message the team sent you on your dispute ticket here with more information about the contract.

If you have any questions, please feel free to post them on that ticket.

Thank you.

~ Bojan

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lysis10 · ‎07-04-2019

Was this hourly or fixed price? If it's fixed price, they don't decide who is right or wrong.

liquidmuse · ‎07-04-2019

Thanks. Perhaps I was hasty in my anger! I'll go away and read up some more. And here's me thinking I had the measure of this place. I've never had any issues before, and I'm still annoyed how a client can have his money back after he behaved the way he did. So some reading is due!

prestonhunter · ‎07-04-2019

Rob, the client didn't pay you for your work, so it belongs to you. If it was me, I would probably post it as a portfolio piece.

If you tell us more, we may be able to advise you with regards to how you could do things differently to avoid situations like this.

The client, if he was a moral person, should have paid you for your work. But some clients choose to take advantage of certain loopholes and do the wrong thing.

liquidmuse · ‎07-04-2019

Again thanks. I will go away, calm down and do some more research. First complication in 2 years is not too bad I guess.

tlsanders · ‎07-04-2019

Rob J wrote:
Again thanks. I will go away, calm down and do some more research. First complication in 2 years is not too bad I guess.

No, it's not. And your willingness to learn should take care of most of the remaining risks.

tlsanders · ‎07-04-2019

Freelancers often end up furious and disgusted with some facet of Upwork or other when they have started working without bothering to learn how Upwork works. Before you go much further, it would be a very good idea to read up on both fixed price and hourly payment protection and when you are and are not protected. In that section, you'll also learn that Upwork does not make rulings when disputes arise.

They definitely didn't notify you that you were in the wrong, because that's not something Upwork decides. I doubt that they said they believed the client, either, but it wouldn't make any difference, since they have no authority to override him and give you the money against the client's wishes. Your only option in that situation is to pay for arbitration.

liquidmuse · ‎07-04-2019

Fair point. I will go away and do the research I should have done 2 years ago. Oh, for the record, this was a fixed fee project.

BojanS · ‎07-04-2019

Sorry to hear you had issues with your client and contract, Rob.

I just wanted to make sure you saw the message the team sent you on your dispute ticket here with more information about the contract.

If you have any questions, please feel free to post them on that ticket.

Thank you.

~ Bojan

liquidmuse · ‎07-04-2019

Thanks for the response. It's actually really helpful knowing this forum actually works. I'm calm now, and will carry on and put this behind me. I will also now read up fully so I am better prepared in future 🙂

petra_r · ‎07-04-2019

Rob J wrote:
Oh, for the record, this was a fixed fee project.

In that case, provided you participated in the dispute, there is NO WAY Upwork could have done what you think they did. None. Zero. Impossible.

What did the notification you got say? I wonder if it told you the client got their money back and you're getting a courtesy credit (so are getting paid), simply because the sum involved was too small to warrant going through an expensive and nerve-wrecking dispute process.

liquidmuse · ‎07-04-2019

Indeed. My fault entirely for only scan reading the notification. As soon as it stated they were getting a full refund, I saw red as they were fully in the wrong IMO. The credit, I read after I vented my frustration here. I can only presume the credit is for the payment I should have recieved. My frustration was really aimed at the client who behaved completely unreasonably. THis wasn't about the money as it was indeed a very small amount. It was principle. Thank you for your reply.

rulion · ‎08-09-2019

Upwork hires incompetent arbitration staff. It's rapidly turning into a **bleep**hole. It's time to change platforms. I'm sick and tired of paying for utter nonsense in return, too.

ronlorraine · ‎08-09-2019

Sorry to read about your client experience but it was also nice to read that you have calmed down and learned from this. Preston told you one thing, if you gave music to the person and didn't get paid for it that music edit is yours.

As you know in editing music or video you can put in notes that knowone see's and this is a part of editing. You should use this if you don't already for this can really come in handy not only in freelancing.

petra_r · ‎08-09-2019

Ron M wrote:
Sorry to read about your client experience but it was also nice to read that you have calmed down and learned from this. Preston told you one thing, if you gave music to the person and didn't get paid for it that music edit is yours.

Presumably you are responding to Rob J (the thread is over a month old, and was brought back to life by a disgruntled Andrei K), and he (Rob J) was actually paid, he just misread the communication.

Also, editing something doesn't necessarily or usually make it yours. Owning a edit does not mean owning the thing that was edited.

You can't put "the editing" (which you own) into your portfolio without the original (which you don't.)

The "oh you own it and can do with it as you please" advice we see so often, is frequently simply wrong.

In this case the OP was paid anyway.

tlsanders · ‎08-10-2019

Andrei K wrote:
Upwork hires incompetent arbitration staff. It's rapidly turning into a **bleep**hole. It's time to change platforms. I'm sick and tired of paying for utter nonsense in return, too.

This has been covered thousands of times, but since it came up here...Upwork doesn't hire "arbitration staff." Arbitrators are (and are required to be) qualified outside professionals.

gilbert-phyllis · ‎08-10-2019

Andrei K wrote:
Upwork hires incompetent arbitration staff. It's rapidly turning into a **bleep**hole. It's time to change platforms. I'm sick and tired of paying for utter nonsense in return, too.

See Tiffany's comment re. UW's arbitration arrangements.

In any case, you should definitely not continue using a platform that makes you feel sick and tired. Best of luck in your future endeavors!