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Tough competition

patjp
Ace Contributor
Pat P Member Since: Nov 26, 2013
11 of 31
There is a good meme going around LinkedIn right now that says "If you think it is expense hiring a professional, try hiring an amateur" Granted I don't have the most expansive time on oDesk, but I have some pretty good experience working in advertising agencies and I'll say this: If a client wants a cheap price they'll receive cheap work. When you price yourself at honest wage you'll do honest (good) work. If I took a job for $5 I'm going to try and knock it out as fast as I can so I can move on to the next $5 job. But if I take a $100 job I'll take my take to make sure it's right. Furthermore, and this comes from my experience in New Product Development, people, all people, associate price with quality. Think about when you buy soda pop. They're all essentially the same, but most people will assume the $5.00 soda is better than the $2.00 cola simply because of price. What I am getting at is there are some people on here who will pay the honest wage because they want better work and those who won't work for cheap will find that the work they receive is just that.
mandylula
Community Guru
Mandy D Member Since: Jul 29, 2013
12 of 31
You could just be one of the contractors that is being thrown into the hidden pile.
mistykeith
Community Guru
Misty K Member Since: Feb 5, 2012
13 of 31
I'm sorry, but I think stating that this contractor is better than that contractor is terribly wrong. What gives the right for another contractor to be a judge? Kristin has been here going on 5 years, whereas Andre has only been here a small 3 months. How one can say he is a better example of a professional freelancer versus someone who shows a serious, hardworking track record for the past 5 years is craziness. I took a look at both profiles, and have my own opinion, but I"m not going to sit here and bash away. The facts are relevant, this platform is sinking to an all time low, PERIOD. I totally disagree about the comment claiming contractors like Kristin are hurting this platform. She is simply trying to find a way to fill in the gaps. She hasn't lowered her rates to a level that is preposterous either. It appears to me that others are working for far lower rates than what she has on her profile. Assumptions are always going to leave you face down in the dirt.
andre090904
Community Leader
André U Member Since: Dec 5, 2013
14 of 31
You will be surprised, but I claim that the time spent hardly matters at all. I could play football for 5 years when a new player joins my team and plays for 3 months with us. Would you consider that I am automatically better just because I have gained more experience? No, the individual skill of the new guy can be much better than those of the old guy. The same works the other way around, too. Of course there are players with vast experience and skill who outrun newbies. It highly depends on the individual skill, motivation and approach/tactics. Not on time. More "experienced" freelancers may be "better", but it is not guaranteed. And no, I am not talking about Kristen. I haven't even checked her profile, so no idea. Greetings, André with the 3 small months craziness-experience
mistykeith
Community Guru
Misty K Member Since: Feb 5, 2012
15 of 31
I don't like the fact that you don't seem to have a problem with someone else being put down and your own self being raised up? I'm sorry, but I just see this judging wrong, and now you appear to have the idea to insinuate that you're somehow more able than the someone who might have the knowledge of years in behind them? It would have been nice to see you come back and say, "WE ALL work hard, I don't think I'm better, and I know there is a lot to learn in this...," that would have been the decent statement to make. My goal isn't to insult you, but I'm just taking a stance here that this business takes a great deal of time to gain a foothold. It takes years of experience to really be great in a competitive market. Football has nothing to do with freelancing, so I'm not going there. Listen, you've been here three months and in my opinion, this business is all about learning and growing. You can't compare 3 months to 5 years PERIOD. That is insulting. I've been freelancing for 16 years now/professionally writing for 19 years, and I can say that I continue to learn and improve myself. While one might have a different style than someone else, I beg to differ on who is superior, or better, or more organized, etc. And, when someone apparently seems to "gloat" because a positive comment was passed, well that is not in very good taste either.
andre090904
Community Leader
André U Member Since: Dec 5, 2013
16 of 31
I cannot tell where you have gotten this interpretation of my comment from. All I am saying is that time alone does not provide enough room to connate a specific knowledge/skill with it. There are way more factors that have to be taken into consideration. That's not insulting, that is just common sense. See, I have just watched an episode of "German Idol" (for having some entertainment, Mexican television is just amazingly stupid). There was a guy who had 11 years or so of vocal coaching. And then there was 16-yrs old girl singing way better. Sure, it has nothing to do with translating, developing business plans or whatsoever. All it says is that time (call it experience if you wish) does not say a thing. There can be a newbie who is much better than you - always and in all branches. Maybe a more vivid example will help. Imagine you are a professor of physics teaching for 40 years. Suddenly there comes a newbie student and develops a brilliant machine/concept or whatsoever. Do you feel insulted now because you had more experience? I'll say it again: there can always be a newbie who is much better than you - always and in all branches. Time does not say a thing. I did not say that I am better nor that she has no idea of what she is doing. I have not checked her profile, I have not even an idea what she is exactly doing. How would I be able to judge anybody else? I can only present you my opinion of the matter and this is actually very similar to what Dianne has said above. [quote] "WE ALL work hard, I don't think I'm better, and I know there is a lot to learn in this...," that would have been the decent statement to make.[/quote] Why exactly should I write such a comment? I don't feel better than anybody else. I'm just a simple freelancer trying to make some extra money. None of you is my competitor, I don't even know what you are doing on oDesk. How could I actually feel better than somebody else? Just because someone (who I don't know either) praised my rather short stay on oDesk? Man, that would be very sad if that would let me feel so much better as to insult others. Nope, I'm just trying to make a point here. And I cannot make a point if you propose to state such empty phrases like "we all work hard" or "there is a lot to learn in this". Again, why should I write such a comment? It does not make sense in such a discussion. We are trying to get the point accross that: 1) there is always someone cheaper (probably with less skill/quality/communication/...) 2) rating yourself cheaper won't help anyone + is directly influencing the whole community as clients get a false idea of "true value" 3) and my personal argument: experience does not matter so much I still cannot see why you are attacking me now. By the way, I would not consider myself as a "hard working freelancer". I invest 3-4h daily in doing my translations and that's fine. There is no hard work for me, I don't fight for jobs. Everything is easy-going. Do you now see that such general empty phrases which you have suggested do not make any sense? Freelancers are never homogenous. They all have different languages, different skills, different expertises, different qualifications, different attitudes, different rates - and also different expierence. All a freelancer has to do is to find a niche in this global market to feel comfortable. And that's exactly what Kristen should do: find a speciality in her specific work and to literally "deal with it" at a higher rate - not going lower and lower.
anne_ginger
Community Guru
Dianne M Member Since: Jul 25, 2013
17 of 31
What I said: "Andre is more business savvy than Kristen (by how he is managing his VERY short freelancing here - 47 jobs in less than 3 months with 4.99 rating)" Just that. If I need to explain what business-savvy is, then WOW. As for the rest, others commented the same so why someone is making it into an emotional something else is beyond me. Idk where all the other stuff is coming from, but someone sure has an 'over' active imagination and has not read everything in the whole thread :) Personally I have no problem with newbies being really good. It just means I have to keep up. If someone can't handle the same then that is their problem not mine. Everyone has been a 'newbie' at one point and the way newbies make it to the big league is by performing at par if not better than old timers. Some individuals have a big problem understanding this concept and I don't get why when its so simple. In my business, a newbie came up and introduced a way to creatively market the same product my company sells. We are over 30 years in the business and this 'newbie' just comes along and steals our customers! How dare she do that? Anyway, what we did is we brainstormed and devised a better means of marketing our brand. So yeah, for a while the 'newbie' almost killed my business. Was she better? Perhaps. Was she more business savvy than my team? Yes, even just for a while. That's life, no need to get all crazy with it. Chillax 🙂


❄❄❄ Just A Forum Contributor --- This isn't against forum guidelines ❄❄❄
mandylula
Community Guru
Mandy D Member Since: Jul 29, 2013
18 of 31
[quote: Misty Keith ]Football has nothing to do with freelancing, so I'm not going there. [/quote] It's called an analogy, and imo it is a pretty good one. [quote: Misty Keith ]You can't compare 3 months to 5 years PERIOD. That is insulting. I've been freelancing for 16 years now/professionally writing for 19 years, and I can say that I continue to learn and improve myself.[/quote] I find that comment just as insulting. Just because one is new to freelancing does not mean that one has less "business savvy" or less common sense or less active brain power. Someone who has been doing the same thing for 20 years may just plod along and be missing a brain cell or two. Someone who joined yesterday may have a better approach and, yes, more "business savvy". And before Misty gets back on her horse, I am not referring to the freelancing experience (or lack thereof) of anyone on this thread.
mistykeith
Community Guru
Misty K Member Since: Feb 5, 2012
19 of 31
My only point is this: I think that Kristin was really put down by specific comments that were aimed at her, while her profile clearly shows she is professional and understands the business. I don't think it is right to tell someone their skills might not be good enough and that is why they have to go cheaper. Who is anyone to say that? And I don't think it is right to raise another contractor up and make it appear they are more professional--when actually neither is. They don't know what the other is doing, and neither does anyone else here, but people like to assume. That was my whole point. Kristin was told she was being a little rude to Andre, and I don't see that either. She didn't say anything rude at all. So, I came to put my opinion on there as well. I think this whole thread is pretty damn rude really. I'm sorry my opinion differs, but thats life folks. Move on. People here have always made comments about someone having been here longer than the next and therefore having more knowledge and skills.
mandylula
Community Guru
Mandy D Member Since: Jul 29, 2013
20 of 31
The perceived rudeness was the response to Andre's first comment. This is sarcastic at least - "You haven't been on odesk long enough, my friend. I've been here since 2009,.... " Generally the threads can get rude - or just opinionated - that's what makes them interesting :cool: [quote: Misty Keith]What features would I change: 1. Make sure repeated refunds show up on profiles 2. Take away these new roll outs that hide good contractors which are useless 3. Have an escrow 4. Have improved support for contractors and clients 5. Ensure credible payment methods consistently 6. Take away that hourly guarantee that is abused too much[/quote] You are so right with this lot. Have a few of my own to add 1. Get back to efficiently dealing with spam/fraud jobs 2. Get rid of spamming freelancers 3. Implement a global minimum hourly rate If they do nothing else though, they need to get rid of the auto hide feature. I'm not actively applying for jobs at the moment, but will be when I get back from holiday ... really hope they have sorted out some of these issues by then.
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