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Trying To Make It Right With A Client

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Valeria K Community Manager Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
21 of 36

Umar,

 

When the contract is closed, the freelancer is also able to leave feedback for the client. We do take that feedback into consideration and that's why we emphasise that it's important that freelancers provide honest feedback to their clients.

~ Valeria
Upwork
jmlaidlaw
Community Guru
Janean L Member Since: Apr 6, 2016
22 of 36

Valeria --

 

Does the exclusion of client feedback from JSS calculation (when client accounts have been suspended) include the opinions of clients whose accounts may have been suspended because, for instance, the clients may have revoked their credit cards in order to avoid paying freelancers? Is that a violation of ToS? Or does that simply cause a temporary suspension, if the payment source is eventually re-instated? Is all eventually forgiven?

 

Remember, when a client's account is suspended, we freelancers are never told WHY it is suspended. It might be due to a policy violation, or it might be due to something else. So how are we to know whether such a suspension is or is not the sort that might invalidate a client's [baseless] opinion from calculation of JSS?

 

With respect to "history of poor collaboration" : Yes, that is certainly good to know. But what constitutes a "history of poor collaboration" in the opinion of Upwork? In the hypothetical example I gave above, the second client is one who might be doing well enough generally, in terms of "collaboration," but who, when he "goes bad," goes very, very bad, indeed. Would two low feedbacks from two freelancers within the space of several weeks constitute such a feedback-negating "poor client history," for instance? (A freelancer might well write a note to CS explaining that this client is mentally ill, and that his destructive and baseless feedback should not be considered--but does CS read this? Do they act on this information?)

 

Thank you for your insight, Valeria.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Valeria K Community Manager Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
23 of 36

Janean,

 

Feedback from clients whose financial accounts were suspended temporarily due to a failed charge are not excluded. Once they fix issues with their credit card, the payment is processed.

 

I will not be able to share more details about how it's determined which clients' feedback to exclude from JSS. I will also not be able to address your hypothetical situation with a client's mental illness. 

 

~ Valeria
Upwork
jmlaidlaw
Community Guru
Janean L Member Since: Apr 6, 2016
24 of 36

@Valeria --

 

Thank you for this clarification, insofar as you are able to provide it.

petra_r
Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
25 of 36

@Janean L wrote:

 

In such a case, a freelancer is essentially forced to refund escrowed monies in order to avoid (a) further entanglements with mountebanks and/or crazies, and (b) foreseeable baseless "punitive" negative public feedback. The fixed-price contract then becomes essentially "null." In such a case, the full refund DOES affect JSS negatively. Am I correct?


 The refund has nothing at all to do with the JSS Score, the outcome of the contract does.

 

Contracts with suspended clients are excluded from the JSS calculation....

jmlaidlaw
Community Guru
Janean L Member Since: Apr 6, 2016
26 of 36

@Petra R wrote:

@Janean L wrote:

 

In such a case, a freelancer is essentially forced to refund escrowed monies in order to avoid (a) further entanglements with mountebanks and/or crazies, and (b) foreseeable baseless "punitive" negative public feedback. The fixed-price contract then becomes essentially "null." In such a case, the full refund DOES affect JSS negatively. Am I correct?


 The refund has nothing at all to do with the JSS Score, the outcome of the contract does.

 

Contracts with suspended clients are excluded from the JSS calculation....


 But contracts with crazies are not excluded. And contracts with clients who are suspended and whose suspensions are eventually lifted are also not excluded, as far as I can tell. Hypothetically speaking.

engrumaraftab
Community Leader
Umar A Member Since: Aug 18, 2015
27 of 36

Yes, I agree with @Petra on this. I would like to put a couple of points on the table. 

 

A zero pay contract doesn't affect JSS as such. Let's look into it from another side. A zero pay contract seems to be negativetly contributing towards JSS calculation because it is caused by a full amount refund. I believe no freelancer would ever think of making a full amount refund if he/she is going very good with his/her client and the client approves the work submitted and ends the contract with 100% good private and public feedback. What affects the JSS as such is what comes in the private and public feedback. A zero pay contract implies that the contract has gone under a full amount refund due to the fact that the freelancer doesn't want to have a bad feedback on his profile. 

 

So, Yes a full amount refund has negative effect on the JSS because the associated contract was ended with the feedback not swallowable to the freelancer. But, it doesn't affect AS SUCH. 


Thanks

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28 of 36
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The OP had 2 contracts this year and failed with no. 1 already. The client had to end the contract after two months, because the OP could not deliver 3 articles in 2 months. That is the problem here, not the JSS or refunding. The client is fed up now and I can understand this. I doubt that the OP is willing to be a reliable partner for clients on Upwork and he should look for other options to earn money. By the way: both jobs have been extremely low paid, but this is another problem.

cupidmedia
Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
29 of 36

Caleb, I agree with Tiffany 100%.

 

Personally, as a client, I give my freelancers HUGE leeway with their deadlines. I work with them to give them the time they need, I set reasonable deadlines in the first place, I'm open to deadline negotiations. If I personally got to the point where I had to cancel a contract for missed deadlines, I would have already exhausted all my patience for that freelancer. I would have no interest at all in giving them another chance with another contract, because they would have already used all their chances up.

 

To be honest, it sounds like that was the case with this client as well. From their feedback it sounds like they gave you plenty of opportunities to fix the problem and you never did. Why should they keep giving you chances?

 

On the plus side, at least it sounds like you know you screwed up and that you've learned from this. Regardless of whether or not you decide to refund this client (and remember that even if you do, their private feedback will still affect your JSS when it's calculated), you now know what to do next time. Your best chance to recover from this is to keep bidding on jobs that fit your skillset and that you know you have time to meet the deadline for. Don't take on more work than you can handle. Go out of your way to meet deadlines and exceed customer expectations and to earn great feedback from your next clients.

ai83
Community Leader
Alma I Member Since: Jan 18, 2016
30 of 36

@Jennifer D wrote:

 

Personally, as a client, I give my freelancers HUGE leeway with their deadlines. 

 

To be honest, it sounds like that was the case with this client as well. From their feedback it sounds like they gave you plenty of opportunities to fix the problem and you never did. Why should they keep giving you chances?


I wouldn't assume that his customer is like you. Since the contract was for 18$ in total, exactly how many deadlines could he possibly have missed? There were exactly 3 and paying a native English speaker with $6 per 750 words is exploitation. AND the customer didn't give 5 stars to almost any of the previous freelancers, despite the exploitative rates. Actually the name of the contract says 'New writers welcome'. That's the sort of title used by bargain hunters and those asking for super cheap writing. 

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