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289bc1cc
Member

UPWORK refunded all my payments

Hello all,

UPWORK has refunded all my earnings due to suspending the client's account.

UPWORK moved about 6000 $ from my earnings to the client without any reason.

I found an approved project by UPWORK's team called (Purchasing service), i applied for that project and the client's payment method was verified and his account was 5 stars.

We made many projects, and the client made all payments on time, and they enter the 5 days secure, and suddenly the made the refund, and after that i contacted the help team many times during the day to stop this refunding until reviewing the chats and screenshots that confirm that i purchased for him some things and i attached all bills that confirm my words, but the team not hear me and asked me to contact the client to return them back, is it logic ????

officially, i requested UPWORK  to return my money back as they have the resposability for what happened, or i will not feel safe with them and will publish every thing via social media under (UPWORK help bad people with the freelancers money) supporting by all evidences (screenshots + chats + mails + complains timing) PLUS making a real steps with my lawyer to return back the money by legal ways.

i'm wating for your support  

56 REPLIES 56
289bc1cc
Member

Please all, support me and UPVOTE.

Please all HELP ME 

I understand it's an awful experience to lose this much money, and I don't wish that on anybody. I can't support you, since that would mean upwork would give you money your client stole from you, and that would mean upwork would pay out millions of $ to people who ran a fraud, making my fees go up. 

I understand you are upset. Anyone would be. However, I will not support you in any way because you broke the rules for a possibly illegal job. Your mistake would mean Upwork has to pay out of their funds. How would that be legal or ethical?

 

Accept your mistakes and learn from them. I'm not joking when I say if you continue with these "jobs" no matter where, you will eventually get severely burned. This is just the beginning. Easy money is never really easy.

sourceprouk
Member

The reality is that Upwork offers no guarantee that you get paid. Money in Escrow means very little as the client can withdraw the funds at any time during a dispute. The clients can also get money returned that is already in your Upwork account. Just imagine a bank who receives a cheque payment for you and puts the money in your account. Then the person, who paid you with the cheque, changes his mind and asks your bank to return his money and the bank does! The bank would never do this.  The manually entered hours, on an hourly rate, again, you have no protection.

I do not know about the monitored hours entered through their app. I never use this.

Upwork is biased towards the job posters but the reality is that we, the providers, are the real Upwork clients. We pay Upwork up to 20%! of the fees we earn. The buyers pay Upwork 2%.

you're right.

UPWORK took my money to that bad guy ... The adminstration must take a look + returning my money back. it's noy my business.

Client selection is your business. Not believing ridiculous things a client tells you is your business. Not doing something against ToS is your business. 

It's completely your business, what are you talking about? No one made you break the rules. No one made you take two "jobs" buying crypto. You are an adult. You made your choice to break the rules for a very dodgy job that was forbidden and likely illegal. You will be lucky if you come out of this with your Upwork amount intact.

 

Take this as a lesson learned and stop trying to blame everyone when it is your responsibility. We are adults and everyone makes mistakes. Part of being an adult is taking responsibility for your actions. Accept that you need to change your mindset or get ready for a difficult and dangerous life.

 

 


Federico D wrote:

The clients can also get money returned that is already in your Upwork account.


This is absolutely false. Clients cannot take money back out of escrow without filing a dispute or without the freelancer's consent. 

 

 

1- You did not read carefully about when I said the clients can take the money out of Escrow.
2- IT HAS HAPPENED TO ME!

Duh!

Amanda is correct, though.

You are too (you're referring to chargebacks?), but you opted to do a "Duh", as if it was necessary? I don't think it was.


Antun M wrote:

Amanda is correct, though.

You are too (you're referring to chargebacks?), but you opted to do a "Duh", as if it was necessary? I don't think it was.


But a chargeback isn't taking money back out of escrow. It's clawing the money back through a fraud/filing process, and is entirely separate than just "taking the money back".  A chargeback is not the same as a client just taking money back from escrow. A chargeback is the bank taking the money back. 

Yes, I'm aware. You're correct, I know.

Federico D mentioned that " [...] The clients can also get money returned that is already in your Upwork account". That's why I thought maybe their issue was infamous chargeback one.


Antun M wrote:

Yes, I'm aware. You're correct, I know.

Federico D mentioned that " [...] The clients can also get money returned that is already in your Upwork account". That's why I thought maybe their issue was infamous chargeback one.


I see what you're saying. Yes, I think it's important to note that it's two different things. Upwork provides a moderate amount of protection through escrow. Clients can't just take it back, and freelancers can't run off with a client's deposit if it's in escrow. But the TOS does discuss how Upwork handles chargebacks, which aren't just the client taking it back out of escrow. In fact, if the client did take money back out of escrow, that would mean that you hadn't finished working or had the milestone released, so you could stop working and simply not waste your time. Chargebacks typically occur when the work has been completed and the milestone is released, meaning the bank claws it back from your account, not from escrow. 

 

(I know you understand, just explaining for the freelancers who might be reading this in the future and learning). 


Federico D wrote:

1- You did not read carefully about when I said the clients can take the money out of Escrow.
2- IT HAS HAPPENED TO ME!

Duh!


I am a client. I cannot take money out of escrow without asking the freelancer to release it or opening a dispute process with Upwork and the freelancer. So you are mistaken. 

I repeat, you do not read the postings carefully before you jump to type. First read.....carefully.

sofia2008
Member

The reason for the reversal was that Upwork was not able to charge the client's payment method.

 

Making transactions outside Upwork (buying things for a client) is a violation of Upwork's Terms of Service, Buying Crypto for a client is not allowed, and in most cases, it is a scam.

 

No lawyer will be able to help you.

but the payments already done, and upwork confirmed that, and it's method is verified.

upwork is refunded due to suspending his account.

lawyer will help because i requested upwork to stop refunding until investigate the problem.

what will lawyer do with you not complying to the Terms of Service you agreed to follow when you signed up?

Sophie, may be you right, but also upwork takes from us about 20% to be beside us not with these clients, all i want is to stop refunding, investigate and give me my money and give him his money.

but upwork rewarded him by all the money.

we paid 20% for that.

Verified payment might mean that the client was able to register a credit card which may or may not have belonged to the client. It is not a guarantee that you will be paid.

Also, the job you took appears to have involved making purchases on behalf of the client. Jobs like this are not allowed on Upwork. The terms of use describe things that clients and freelancers can't do on Upwork. See the link below.

Screen Shot 2022-10-01 at 5.36.25 PM.png
https://www.upwork.com/legal#unfairtreatment

It does not matter if it's a real job or not, verified or not, when the task itself is not allowed on upwork. 

Yeah true.

Talking about scams, there is somebody who has been consistently posting a dodgy advert for a job, in the engineering, architectural and design section. I have reported it some 30 times and Upwork still allows him/them to continue to post it. Why?
The 'job' posting in question tells you that you must visit a web page to see the job description, first, before you bid for the job. The page leads you to a dodgy site where there is yet another link which in turn leads to advertising and maybe a virus.

bobafett999
Member

You charge $5/hr.  What kind of project did you do that cost $6,000?

many projects as a purchasing services .... that 6000$ ( i have 5300$ i paid for the client and only 700$ as a commission)

5300 i paid from my bank account.

It is rules violation. You can not buy anything for client. You have ToS violated then asking Upwork for support? Sorry, i think Upwork will reject.

Not necessarily. I buy things I need for my client's projects, such as prototype parts of the products I design. People also have expenses as on a normal business, such as petrol for travel, stationeries, couriers (I use a lot), etc. A number of projects cannot be carried out without buying things, for the project, on behalf of the client.
It depends on how you charge the client. My policy is that anything that is worth more than $100.00 the client has to pay in advance before I make the purchase. Ocassionally, I pay amounts of up to $300.00  for supplies for the projects but that is only when the client has already paid several of my bills so I know they are honest and good payers.


Federico D wrote:

Not necessarily. I buy things I need for my client's projects, such as prototype parts of the products I design. People also have expenses as on a normal business, such as petrol for travel, stationeries, couriers (I use a lot), etc. A number of projects cannot be carried out without buying things, for the project, on behalf of the client.
It depends on how you charge the client. My policy is that anything that is worth more than $100.00 the client has to pay in advance before I make the purchase. Ocassionally, I pay amounts of up to $300.00  for supplies for the projects but that is only when the client has already paid several of my bills so I know they are honest and good payers.


And there is a "reimbursement" feature for payments that allows the client to pay for things you bought. You can also work those into the total cost of the project or ask the client to pay for them directly. I typically have clients pay directly for anything that is needed to take myself out of that equation, but even so, Upwork does not support jobs that are strictly for the purpose of buying stuff. It's one thing if it's part of a project (i.e., you build a website and the client needs to purchase the domain; you need to purchase photos to use in a brochure, etc.). But if the sole purpose is to buy something for someone, especially when they say they aren't allowed to buy it in their country, then it's not allowed. And it should be obvious that it's a scam. 

You have clearly violated Upwork's TOS. The worst part is that Upwork can suspend your account for that single reason. They can even ban you from the platform. Honestly, I don't want to be mean to you. But, that is the truth.


Mahmoud H wrote:

many projects as a purchasing services .... that 6000$ ( i have 5300$ i paid for the client and only 700$ as a commission)

5300 i paid from my bank account.


If you read the TOS you will see that these jobs are not allowed and you should report them, not try to work the system to get free money. 

"Purchasing Service" is not a legitimate job on Upwork, and likely not in many areas. crypto purchasing might be quick money or you might lose as you have now. A few minutes of work for a $700.00 commission? Why would you receive such an enormous amount for a legitimate job? If you continue on this path, off or online, you are headed for serious trouble. I'm not criticizing you; I am telling you the truth. At the very least, this is a gray area and can be illegal on an international level. It may seem like no one will ever know, but you have already risked losing your Upwork account and your lovely $700.00 commission is gone.

 

Unless you somehow pursue this matter through your court system, take it as a lesson learned and stop doing things that are not legitimate and likely illegal because it's easy money. You are playing a dangerous game.

Purchasing anything for a client as the primary task is not allowed according to upwork ToS. 

Even if you are unaware of this, a client saying he can't buy virtual currency for any reason is very likely to be a lie. It would have been better to consult the client on how to do it, and get paid for a consultation. 

You can't successfully sue upwork, since you violated the terms of service you confirmed you would adhere to, and upwork is not your contractual partner in this matter, the client is. Nowhere in the ToS you will find any stipulation that payments are guaranteed. They can't be, especially in cases of fraud. 

You can sue the client, since he is the one who defrauded you. It is very likely to be impossible, since you don't have their real name or address. Your lawyer can't file a complaint unless he has that data. 

In the end, it is up to you which activities you engage in. Did you wonder why the client wrote the virtual currency in this weird way? To not be flagged by upwork algorithms, who have keywords they are searching for. 

I know, or hope, that you asked yourself if this job was too good to be true. A quick search of the forum would have given you the answer in seconds. 

in your opinion, how can i get my money back ? 

I have no idea how to get the money back you paid for the virtual currency. You should try and find out if you can reverse the transactions. I've never heard from all the people who reported the same scam in the forum that they ever got their money back, and I would also assume that the "client" chose something that would not be reversable. Otherwise, the scam doesn't work. 

You will not get money from upwork, because they don't have it. They never had it. The credit card was stolen, or could not be charged. 

289bc1cc
Member

All i need is to return my money back.

if anyone can help, please don't hesitate.

i have it's phone no. and upwork has its payment method details.

 

any help please

Do you have some government body in your country you can report online fraud to? If yes, are they engaging with other agencies in other countries to find and persecute the scammers? It is very likely that the scammers are not in the same country as you, so first they need to be located, and then investigated by local law enforcement. 

I have heard of cases where people were arrested for capital crimes in other countries, this requires a lot of cooperation between law enforcement agencies in different countries, and I think this only happens for capital crimes. 


Mahmoud H wrote:

All i need is to return my money back.

if anyone can help, please don't hesitate.

i have it's phone no. and upwork has its payment method details.

 

any help please


Contact the place you purchased the crypto or whatever from and see if they can refund what you spent. 

sofia2008
Member

From previous similar experiences we saw on the forum, you do not have much chance to see that money back.

 

You have to ask your money to the right place:

Upwork has $0 USD

Your client has $5300 USDT

The provider you bought USDT from has $5300 USD

but the money was here and i asked not to refund before investigate, but they don't here me.