Unusual Request

jbylsma · ‎09-25-2020

Hi all,

I have an unusual request from a client. We've had an hourly contract open for 4 or 5 months. We've only done about 10-15 hours of work. Even so, it's been good working with him and he seems happy with the work I've provided. Now, he's asking to pre-pay a certain amount for future work. He didn't really provide a specific reason on why he wants to do this. I told him we could do a fixed price contract, with a milestone, as long as he releases the milestone up front.

I've never had a client ask for this. I can understand wanting to offset income with expenses before the end of the year, but in September? Are there any cautions or advice I should be aware of here?

Thank you!

John.

touchtime · ‎09-25-2020

I'm a client.
However, I only use fixed.
Hope this helps

martina_plaschka · ‎09-26-2020

John B wrote:
Hi all,
I have an unusual request from a client. We've had an hourly contract open for 4 or 5 months. We've only done about 10-15 hours of work. Even so, it's been good working with him and he seems happy with the work I've provided. Now, he's asking to pre-pay a certain amount for future work. He didn't really provide a specific reason on why he wants to do this. I told him we could do a fixed price contract, with a milestone, as long as he releases the milestone up front.

I've never had a client ask for this. I can understand wanting to offset income with expenses before the end of the year, but in September? Are there any cautions or advice I should be aware of here?

Thank you!
John.

You should ask him why, right?

If this is an established relationship, you probably have nothing to worry about. If he were a new client, you might watch out for him to ask you to transfer money urgently to other people, because of yada yada yada reasons....

wlyonsatl · ‎09-26-2020

It wouldn't really matter to me so much why the client requested the change as much as knowing that payments under hourly projects are better protected under Upwork's rules than are fixed price payments.

If he's been a good client and you trust him, accomodate him if you want to keep working for him.

1) Set up multiple smaller milestones (covering the equivalent of a few hours' work) rather than one or two large milestones. (I would also make early milestones larger than later ones, if that's possible.)

2) Make it clear you will only work on one milestone at a time and your eventual payment for completion of that miletone must be fully funded before you will begin, or at least submit, the work for the milestone to the client.

3) Make it clear that work on any milestone will begin only after payment for all previous miestones has been relesed to you.

Good luck.

lysis10 · ‎09-26-2020

John B wrote:
Hi all,
I have an unusual request from a client. We've had an hourly contract open for 4 or 5 months. We've only done about 10-15 hours of work. Even so, it's been good working with him and he seems happy with the work I've provided. Now, he's asking to pre-pay a certain amount for future work. He didn't really provide a specific reason on why he wants to do this. I told him we could do a fixed price contract, with a milestone, as long as he releases the milestone up front.

I've never had a client ask for this. I can understand wanting to offset income with expenses before the end of the year, but in September? Are there any cautions or advice I should be aware of here?

Thank you!
John.

They're thinking they can get it cheaper if they go by milestone. This usually happens if they have a lot of revisions which you rightfully run the clock for. Or, maybe they think you're running the clock. Regardless, the point is that they think they can get it cheaper with a milestone.

It's up to you if you accept. I've been refusing escrow jobs recently because the mindset of an escrow client seems to be "I only want to pay for this much regardless of revisions and I can get a refund if I don't like it."

jbylsma · ‎09-26-2020

Okay - thanks everyone for the input. Very helpful.

Can a client get a refund on a milestone even after it's been approved and released?

lysis10 · ‎09-26-2020

John B wrote:
Okay - thanks everyone for the input. Very helpful.

Can a client get a refund on a milestone even after it's been approved and released?

30 days, yes. And there is no payment protection from chargebacks. If they refuse to release, you're stuck in mediation. I think escrow has a lot of risk for freelancers, so make sure you understand what you're giving up when you switch.

petra_r · ‎09-26-2020

Jennifer M wrote:
John B wrote:
Can a client get a refund on a milestone even after it's been approved and released?
30 days, yes.

Ha, wouldn't that be nice....

If there has been an invoice for the last milestone within the last 30 days, or there is currently any money in escrow, the entire (!!) contract becomes disputable, even if part of it was paid last year or the year before.

prestonhunter · ‎09-26-2020

As a freelancer, when I agree to fixed-price contracts with clients, I almost always stick with single-milestone contracts. If there are five tasks to be done for the project, that means five fixed-price contracts.

The price is the same for the client, but that helps to avoid having a big contract held "hostage" by concerns over feedback. And it minimizes opportunities for disputes.

I think nearly all Upwork clients are great. From my personal experience, most of the clients I have worked for have been professional, considerate, ethical.

But in case a client ends up going "off the rails", then by dividing up work into separate contracts, my previous completed work for the client will not be subject to a negative review, refund request, or dispute.

Clients can achieve the most success with their projects if they manage them proactively. Clients should actively review the work done by freelancers, especially freelancers new to the project. Clients should not plan to ask for a dispute after a lot of work has been done if they decide they don't like the work. Rather, clients should quickly stop working with underperforming freelancers. It is MUCH smarter and easier to NOT pay a bad freelancer more money in the first place, rather than try to get money back later. Getting back money after you have already paid it is never a sure thing.

lysis10 · ‎09-26-2020

Petra R wrote:
Jennifer M wrote:
John B wrote:
Can a client get a refund on a milestone even after it's been approved and released?
30 days, yes.
Ha, wouldn't that be nice....

If there has been an invoice for the last milestone within the last 30 days, or there is currently any money in escrow, the entire (!!) contract becomes disputable, even if part of it was paid last year or the year before.

Tryin not to mention "the trick."

jbylsma · ‎09-26-2020

Thanks Preston, Jennifer and Petra for the sage advice.. I have some long-standing contracts which we've added many milestones over the course of years. Having something like that happen would be a nightmare. Going forward, I'm only going to do single-milestone contracts when doing fixed price. And I'll be closing those long-standing contracts. Best, John.

tlbp · ‎09-26-2020

John B wrote:
Hi all,
I have an unusual request from a client. We've had an hourly contract open for 4 or 5 months. We've only done about 10-15 hours of work. Even so, it's been good working with him and he seems happy with the work I've provided. Now, he's asking to pre-pay a certain amount for future work. He didn't really provide a specific reason on why he wants to do this. I told him we could do a fixed price contract, with a milestone, as long as he releases the milestone up front.

I've never had a client ask for this. I can understand wanting to offset income with expenses before the end of the year, but in September? Are there any cautions or advice I should be aware of here?

Thank you!
John.

I had a client with a use-or-lose marketing budget do this once. After I created one ebook, they ordered a set and put all the money in escrow. The project didn't see its way to completion and I eventually released about half of the escrow funds back to the client.

In your case, I wouldn't risk creating a new contract unless the first milestone work was ready to be assigned and completed. If I had ended up doing no work under my fixed-price contract with the client I described, it would have been bad for my JSS. Fortunately, I received some payments under the contract before it ended.