Upwork Double Dipping on Freelancer Bonuses

[jackie_linn]

I am a freelancer and recently received a bonus from a client.  I was shocked to find that Upwork charged me 20% for the initial job, and charged again (separately) another 20% on the bonus.  The job and the bonus were paid at the exact same time.  It's bad enough they take money from bonuses we earn, but to double-dip on the 20% (separately) is just wrong, especially now that freelancers are having to buy more connects to compete.

Greed is not good.  

[paywell]

Double-dipping is submerging the same chip (or crisp) in a shared sauce container, after having already taken a bite.

A bonus payment is subjected to a 5-20% service-fee once, just like all other client payments are.

Otherwise, this type of payment could and would be used as a loophole to avoid the fee.

[feed_my_eyes]

A payment is a payment, regardless of whether it's called a bonus or not, and Upwork takes 20 percent of the first $500. I don't see how that's "double dipping"? If you charge a client $100, Upwork takes $20, and if you charge $50 and get a $50 bonus, they still charge $20. Why do you think that you shouldn't pay the same commission just because your payment was split up?

[yofazza]

Charging fee to a bonus isn't normal in where I live. They often make it clear by writing something like "this bonus will all goes to [theprovidername]".

It's like tipping don't you think?

What about Uber/similar service in the US? If a rider give bonus, will all of it goes to the driver? Our ride hailing service here don't do that (all bonus goes to driver).

Of course there are concerns such as "people will circumvent etc" but that's a different matter with different solutions and also just an "excuse" if used as a reason to charge fees to a "bonus". 

edit: I Googled and Uber tip all goes to driver. Not complaining, I know this is Upwork not Uber. I'm just saying.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Charging fee to a bonus isn't normal in where I live."

You live in Indonesia.

This isn't Indonesia.

This is Upwork.

[a195dd90]

How rude and arrogant of you to make such a statement. I'm virtually certain this poster knows where they live and that this is a community board within the Upwork domain (just look at the URL in the address bar).

Your comment was frankly uncalled for. You should have just stayed in your lane.

Your remarks did nothing to help or be of any value to the conversation at hand.

[prestonhunter]

Michael:

I have no doubt that you are a good person and you mean well.

But your post is factually incorrect.

There was nothing rude or arrogant about my post. My post simply made a relevant factual observation.

I am sorry if you misunderstood the post. I wish you had asked questions rather than making personal attacks.

[a195dd90]

Preston,
I too have no doubt you are a good and reasonable person as well.
My point was this - I have a fairly thick hide, nevertheless had your comments; as written, been directed my way, I would have taken offense. Not trying to beat a dead horse, here. 

Let's just say Upwork was based somewhere beyond the U.S. --
I then chose to write what the member stated (re: his Uber example),

And then I received this:
"You live in the United States.
This is NOT the United States.
This is Upwork."

While I agree with you on the surface the statements are true - however, when considering the topic as a whole, using the context as you did (while it may not have been your intention), I would have felt you were questioning my level of intelligence.
1 - I do not need to be told where I live
2 - I do not need to be reminded (in some form) that this (country of choice) is NOT the United States.
3 - This is Upwork <-- I know what web site I am on.
Again, this was NOT a personal attack on you or your character, I was criticizing the message, NOT the messenger. This is a perfect example of the downside re: POSTING any type of comment or thought. It is very easy to misinterpret the intent.

To that end - I apologize for you taking my comment beyond what it was intented. My choice of words obviously did not convey my meaning to you, as well.

Respectfully,
Michael M.

[feed_my_eyes]

No, I don't think it's like tipping. Upwork takes a percentage of each payment. A bonus is still a payment. It's more like how you have to declare your earnings to the government for income taxes; they don't care if you made your money as regular pay or if it was a tip, they still take a percentage of your total earnings.

But out of curiosity, what would be your solution to prevent people from asking their clients to pay bonuses as a way of avoiding the service charge?

[yofazza]

It's a service fee, not payment processing fee. Uber said in this matter: "Zero service fees applied".

Even if Upwork change the wording and said that it's a payment processing fee, then Uber can do that without having to apply such fee.

Again, I know this is Upwork, not Uber, or Indonesia. Just doing discussion.

> what would be your solution

The ride hailing services  also has this problem. At the beginning there's a lot of drivers asking to end the trip and pay in cash (or by tipping). But eventually there's no more, with better education and service provided by the applicator to both drivers and riders.

There are technical things to do, but I prefer education, along with "goodwill" provided, which could reduce the percentage of people who'd want to circumvent the system.

Same with the scam/spam problem, I never vote for "filters" or similar tech solutions. Scammers will not give up to a mere word filter when they can get hundreds of dollars from a single mark. The marks are the one that needs to be removed, by education.

[paywell]

Only a possible problem-laden solution springs to mind: like limiting the amount allowed for each bonus. Like 10% from the Milestone, or 10 to 20 bucks. 

[jackie_linn]

Yes, I agree. I was just thinking that at least charge us less percentage
on bonuses, I don’t know

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Jacquelyn L wrote:
Yes, I agree. I was just thinking that at least charge us less percentage
on bonuses, I don’t know

---

Why?

[elisa_b]

Lowering the fee on bonuses would mean having tons of freelancers asking their clients to pay them via bonuses, instead of using regular milestones. That's not feasible.

[prestonhunter]

This exact topic has been discussed dozens of times.

Upwork is not going to change the policy.

The current policy is the only workable policy.

After reading dozens of threads, the conclusion is always the same:

Nobody has ever suggested a workable method for allowing bonus payments which don't charge the same fee as is charged for all other payments.

Even if a freelancer thinks it is "unfair", it doesn't really matter because this policy is not going to change.

[jackie_linn]

lol

[martina_plaschka]

Double dipping would mean that upwork charges double on bonuses, so 10%-40%. I can actually see them doing that, with the rationale, hey it's a bonus, money that was not expected, so why not. 

[tomzilla1]

---

Jacquelyn L wrote:

I am a freelancer and recently received a bonus from a client.  I was shocked to find that Upwork charged me 20% for the initial job, and charged again (separately) another 20% on the bonus.  The job and the bonus were paid at the exact same time.  It's bad enough they take money from bonuses we earn, but to double-dip on the 20% (separately) is just wrong, especially now that freelancers are having to buy more connects to compete.

Greed is not good.  

---

You forgot super inflation ha. So in reality it's more than the % you mentioned for you and for Upwork. I'm glad they didn't raise  the %. But I understand, I've been there before. But eventually it gets better. It goes down to about 12 to 15% in actual.

Whenever I think about this fee I remind myself Upwork is charging based on whatever they like, backed by what the market allows. We're all guests here. I just hope Upwork uses the fee to fix critical issues with profiles, and on advertising towards businesses or startups that actually have capital to spend, and not just $2000 contracts.

[feed_my_eyes]

---

Tom Z wrote:

---

But eventually it gets better. It goes down to about 12 to 15% in actual.

---

No, it's 20% on the first $500, 10% up to $10,000, and 5% after that. https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211062538-Freelancer-Service-Fees#:~:text=Here's%20how%...

[6bfcdaf8]

Its very natural to be scared when spending your money. Everyone instinctually knows how to protect their resources. 

I also had a feeling of being protected by a bigger force (employer) when i was working as an employee.

Now things are different, we have our own micro companies, hunting on our own. Upwork is not our employer, they are a "partner" to us. Customers are also not our employers they are our partners as well.

We feel amazed when we see a bird throwing a small piece of bread into the sea so that it can hunt a huge fish that just approaches to eat that piece of bread. Smart move by the bird, right? So its a sign of intelligence when someone can let go of their current resources in hopes to gain more resources in the future.

Thats what you do, you pay the platform that allows you to access tremendous amount of job opportunities fairly, there are people who made more than a million dollars here over the years.

It is ok to pay someone who brings value. It is also ok to ask your customers to pay you fairly if you think you can bring them value.

All i said above may not be %100 relevant to the original question but still wanted to share my thoughts on this