Upwork - Job Success Thread **title edited** - Page 8

jademilburn · ‎05-19-2015

I want Community Forum Moderators to add to this thread, and really listen to what is going on.

I, like many others am sure have the same story.

I used to love Odesk, and got many job interviews each week. I had all 5 star feedback, and glowing written references from my clients. Then Odesk made alot of changes and introduced Job Success rate. I was shocked that mine was 67%. That was until I looked at other discussions and heard of other people who had five star feedback, lots of good references and yet had a very low job success rate.

This system is beyond unfair as

!)Upwork introduced new changes and a new feedback system. They should NOT include information that people believed was being entered anonymously, prior to the changes. The Job success rate includes information that clients did not think would be shown publicly. They left star feedback that would be shown publicly. You CANNOt use retroactive data for a new system.

2)Since the Job success rate has been started, I am now not getting invited to interview for ANY jobs, so how could I get my Job success rate, even if I tried?

You have made a very bad error with this.

Can every freelancer on this forum who wants to get rid of the job success rate feature, reply with 'Get rid', and lets see if they listen to us.

danielmbcn · ‎03-07-2016

@Valeria K wrote:
@Daniel M wrote:
Is that affecting my JSS maybe? Should I end this contract right now so that I get a logic JSS, or that at least it disappear until I really complete 4 contracts, as it should be?
We are working with the team to make sure the issue with the contract on hold is resolved. Since feedback from clients who have a track record of ToS violations and bad outcomes are excluded from the Job Success score, we're going to remove this single contract from your JSS calculation. This means, you'll be without a JSS until another contract with feedback is completed. We're working on making this update shortly.

Good morning Valeria,

Thank you very much for your help. I will be looking forward to that update

vboikova · ‎03-06-2016

Ugh .. It's JSS Update day again, this thread is going to be filled with complaints by angry / confused freelancers.

I'll start by saying my JSS hasn't updated at all for some reason - I've completed 2 new contracts, all with the highest possible ratings - my client actually revealed that to me, and I don't think he's lying because both contracts were from him ( would you immediately hire someone again if you aren't happy with their work? )

Anyways, my JSS since feb 21 is still 89% - no change at all despite those 2 contracts being completed within the timeframe. Now it just says "last updated : mar 6 " and it's still a 89 . . . That's ridiculus.

I am getting slightly more irriated with each week and am starting to consider other freelancing platforms . . .

Edit:

Here's what Customer Support recommended:

Please be informed that your job success score has already been updated as you can see that the date has been changed. What this means is that when your job success score was recomputed on March 6, the score computed is also 89%. If you wish to increase this score, you will need to complete more contracts successfully.

2 good contracts that took me 2 weeks to complete didn't raise my JSS. So basically, UpWork wants me to complete as much cheap-offering, quick gigs as possible to raise my score - this is actually brilliant! ( for UpWork, not for us as freelancers, of course )

I think I figured out the JSS - it's a way to make most freelancers work for peanuts in order to keep up an ever-dropping percentage - if you take quality jobs that take longer to complete, your JSS will go down. ( due to "inactivity" ) However, if you complete $15 tasks daily, you'll stay Top Rated for sure!

Keep that in mind, folks.

danielmbcn · ‎03-06-2016

@Valéria B wrote:

I think I figured out the JSS - it's a way to make most freelancers work for peanuts in order to keep up an ever-dropping percentage - if you take quality jobs that take longer to complete, your JSS will go down. ( due to "inactivity" ) However, if you complete $15 tasks daily, you'll stay Top Rated for sure!
Keep that in mind, folks.

If that's true, I don't say nothing. But if Upwork really cares about their freelancers as they claim (and I want to believe that they do), I don't understand why nobody is at least checking again the way this JSS behaves.

Maybe it has an internal logic that only the engineers who wrote that algorithm do understand, but for the rest of mortals, when we read "Job Success" we assume it's about job success. Plus, when we hover on it, it appears the follosing description: "The percentage of this freelancer's jobs that resulted in a great client experience".

That's false. The correct description should be something like "the percentage of this freelancer's knowledge on how to manage our tricky system to show its real success job score". Clients should be warned that this JSS is not realistic, not even approximate in most of cases.

How can I explain now to a potential client that the average of 100%, 100% and 100% (3/3 contracts with 5 stars) is equal to 63%?!

I feel bad because I was also proudly linking my Upwork profile on other sources to show my good performance. But now I can't show my Upwork profile anymore in public due to the pathetic job score I have got today.

If so many freelancers are complaining about this JSS (even freelancers with 90%+ score), is it not worth to revise it so that we can feel a bit more safe here?

cjemery · ‎03-06-2016

"I think I figured out the JSS - it's a way to make most freelancers work for peanuts in order to keep up an ever-dropping percentage - if you take quality jobs that take longer to complete, your JSS will go down. ( due to "inactivity" ) However, if you complete $15 tasks daily, you'll stay Top Rated for sure!

Keep that in mind, folks."

An Upwork Support rep just helped confirm this...

**edited for Community Guidelines** (from an email regarding what to do about an idle contract that was paused by Upwork)

researchediting · ‎03-08-2016

@Valéria B wrote:

I think I figured out the JSS - it's a way to make most freelancers work for peanuts in order to keep up an ever-dropping percentage - if you take quality jobs that take longer to complete, your JSS will go down. ( due to "inactivity" ) However, if you complete $15 tasks daily, you'll stay Top Rated for sure!
Keep that in mind, folks.

Valéria,

No, you haven't. I'm selective and expensive

Best,

Michael

alekseevpavel78 · ‎03-06-2016

It's happened again with me!

My JSS dropped from 95% to 91%, but all my clients are satisfied with the quality of work I provided to them. At the same time, my Job Success score decreased. All this looks illogical and non-understandable.

Seriously - get rid!

kakusharan · ‎03-07-2016

Get Rid

klevis · ‎03-07-2016

Get Rid

I dont know why I suddenly have 75% Job Success rate! All my reviews are 5 stars and recurring clients. It seems like the more good jobs I do the more the Job Success rate drops.

michelletrimpe · ‎03-07-2016

Get rid! This is an unclear algorthim and I'm actually terrified to take on new clients because of potential consequences. This is not creating a positive environment within the Upwork community for contractors. Moreover, I've never seen a website receive so much negative feedback on a policy, given that there are 25 pages here of people mostly expressing concern, and not take action to fix it.

This is not a game - it's often people's livelihood at stake. As such, a more fair and clear job success score process for contractors should be put in place.

daytrader21 · ‎03-08-2016

Lets’ be honest here the Job Success Score is misleading and it’s not telling you what it was supposed to express. I mean, when you think about the Job Success rate automatically your mind thinks about the % number of jobs you completed successfully(you completed the work assigned by the client), but it seems that Upwork really feels the need to twist it for whatever reason.

I’m in the same kind of position like majority of you guys, up until the end of January my JSS was 100% then it dropped to 98%, then to 97% and since beginning of this week my score is down to 91%, really!? Something must be really wrong here.

This are some indubitable facts:

45 jobs and on everyone one of them without exception I’ve got a 5 start feedback
I have not one, but three long-term clients;
Majority of my clients have rehired me;
On a weekly basis I receive interview invitations from various clients;
Always giving a prompt response to the invitation, in less than 24h;
NO refund; NO dispute;

Basically you can say that I’ve build a strong reputation and had a professional behavior but still my JSS somehow is getting hurt. It's quite hard to see that even though you're doing your best and clients are satisfied with your work, this is not accurately reflected into the JSS.

amdion · ‎03-09-2016

GET RID

Why is this happening? I have a rating of 4.95, have had two long term customers since my first week on UpWork, have had only positive responses from customers, and my score just went from 91% to 89%. Now I will not be looked at by clients who require "at least a 90% JSS," for at least the next two weeks. This rating system is absolutely ridiculous and misrepresents freeleancers. How is this system justified?

jsutherland · ‎03-09-2016

You have jobs you have refunded or closed on your own or ones where it was closed and no money changed hands..

I'm surprised it's not lower but I guess the long term is helping your overall score.

Then there is the 4.85 job so that gives one pause.

captaincad · ‎03-09-2016

Job success ratings and the degrading of Freelance contractors.

---------------------

I have worked Elance and UpWork for 6 years. Before the job success rating thing came about I was position No 5 out of 3500 engineering contractors my earnings then were about $64000.00

My experience on UpWork is that it is near impossible to support myself never mind a family and now struggle to pay the huge expenses I have with equipment and LEGALLY purchased and paid for Adobe and other software application I used here to give my clients the highest quality work.

I am beginning to believe that the purpose of degrading profession Freelance contractors may be to move them of the site. Why ? To make room for the 14 million members. WHY DOES UPWORK NEED 14 MILLION MEMBER ? UpWork does not have enough work for me! Is there enough work here for 14 million members? Or have the membership fees taken priority.

Over the last 5 projects. My work is near perfect. It is near perfect because I have been doing so for 6 YEARS. I am the best at what I do and have improved - every - single - day - i work here. But still I am degraded by a skewed rating system that has some other purpose.

Another reason for degrading the Freelance contractor are disgruntled clients who come into conflict with freelancers on the job and use the JSR as a weapon.

UpWork. Stop the Job Success rating. It is hurting the freelancers and reduces there income.

ozzygn · ‎03-09-2016

Jon. i feel your pain. I havent done a single job here since the JSS. Upwork is unwilling to listen to the customers.. im afraid a mod will come a remove my post for **violating community guideliness**.

amdion · ‎03-09-2016

I refunded one customer because he had a fixed price job, then divided the job up into two funded milestones of half of the fixed price each, which was not the original job offer. Since I had already accepted, and he would not settle a dispute, and UpWork would not settle the dispute, I had no choice. That also happed in my first month on UpWork. I had a 91% far after that occurred, but it just went down inexplicably. No other contracts have been closed by me nor have there been any other contracts that have not paid me. The one job that is 4.85 is due to a 4 star rating for "Availability", but 5 stars for everything else, due to not being available over a weekend where I said in advance that I would not be available. Besides, 4.85/5= 97%, so why would that give anyone pause?

katrinabeaver · ‎03-09-2016

Private feedback also carries a lot of weight. So even though you may have five stars the client can leave private feedback that can hurt your JSS.

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

katrinabeaver · ‎03-09-2016

I can remember back in the oDesk days when everyone was complaining how the star system was too transparent and open to abuse making it unfair to honest freelancers and unfair to clients searching for freelancers. There was thread after thread after thread. They finally changed it to where the rating is less transparent (because they listened to feedback and implemented it) and now threads and threads of complaints about it not being transparent. Fact is no matter what they do it's not going to satisfy everyone. Every feature is not going to satisfy everybody.

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

lisawerk · ‎03-09-2016

@Katrina B wrote:
I can remember back in the oDesk days when everyone was complaining how the star system was too transparent and open to abuse making it unfair to honest freelancers and unfair to clients searching for freelancers. There was thread after thread after thread. They finally changed it to where the rating is less transparent (because they listened to feedback and implemented it) and now threads and threads of complaints about it not being transparent. Fact is no matter what they do it's not going to satisfy everyone. Every feature is not going to satisfy everybody.

I was never on oDesk, so I can't speak to those policies, but the fact remains that hidden feedback of any kind is unfair, at least as it applies to JSS. Especially when it directly contradicts the public feedback. If a client, or a freelancer, leaves a glowing public review and trashes someone behind the scenes, that shows cowardly, unfair, and unprofessional behavior and should not be rewarded.

It's petty, manipulative, and unfairly punishes the freelancer. Not only does it bring down the JSS, it prevents a freelancer from knowing what the problem was and how performance can be improved in the future. Good public feedback to freelancers benefits a client (I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks for the client's history of feedback when I'm making a decision to make a proposal.)

There's a middle ground between what came before and what they have now.

researchediting · ‎03-09-2016

@Katrina B wrote:
I can remember back in the oDesk days when everyone was complaining how the star system was too transparent and open to abuse making it unfair to honest freelancers and unfair to clients searching for freelancers. There was thread after thread after thread. They finally changed it to where the rating is less transparent (because they listened to feedback and implemented it) and now threads and threads of complaints about it not being transparent. Fact is no matter what they do it's not going to satisfy everyone. Every feature is not going to satisfy everybody.

Katrina,

You were here. I wasn't.

Allow me to doubt that:

the basis of contractor complaints about the rating system was its "transparency"
Upwork implemented the JSS to placate freelancers.

Best,

Michael

tamsandstedt · ‎03-10-2016

@Douglas Michael M wrote:
@Katrina B wrote:
I can remember back in the oDesk days when everyone was complaining how the star system was too transparent and open to abuse making it unfair to honest freelancers and unfair to clients searching for freelancers. There was thread after thread after thread. They finally changed it to where the rating is less transparent (because they listened to feedback and implemented it) and now threads and threads of complaints about it not being transparent. Fact is no matter what they do it's not going to satisfy everyone. Every feature is not going to satisfy everybody.
Katrina,
You were here. I wasn't.
Allow me to doubt that:
the basis of contractor complaints about the rating system was its "transparency"
Upwork implemented the JSS to placate freelancers.
Best,
Michael
Well, perhaps the word "transparency" was not used, but "everyone just gives everyone 5 stars; it has no meaning anymore" did come up frequently.
Edited to add: as a result of this "star creep" and the fact that you could remove bad feedback by refunding all the money, clients were being scammed by unscrupulous "5-star" freelancers. I'm not saying that Job Success is great, or even that it works, but I don't think the star system worked either.

jessicasimko · ‎03-09-2016

@Angela D wrote:
I refunded one customer because he had a fixed price job, then divided the job up into two funded milestones of half of the fixed price each, which was not the original job offer. Since I had already accepted, and he would not settle a dispute, and UpWork would not settle the dispute, I had no choice. That also happed in my first month on UpWork. I had a 91% far after that occurred, but it just went down inexplicably. No other contracts have been closed by me nor have there been any other contracts that have not paid me. The one job that is 4.85 is due to a 4 star rating for "Availability", but 5 stars for everything else, due to not being available over a weekend where I said in advance that I would not be available. Besides, 4.85/5= 97%, so why would that give anyone pause?

When I got my first 4.85 and was worried about it, many people here said things like "why do people think a 4.85 is a BAD score??" It's actually not - unless - that person gave you a much lower private feedback score. Mine did not affect my score. Sadly, you will never know what caused it to drop because there is no transparency here and for reasons far beyond my comprehension, we are not allowed to know what causes our scores to drop. It could very well be a mistake (considering how many other mistakes are found in the algorithms here) and you won't even know to be able to correct it. Apparently, the bad freelancers, who tried to game the system made Upwork treat *everyone* as if they are a bad freelancer.

captaincad · ‎03-10-2016

I find that i am so badly paid on UpWork that it is very hard to give of my best to my client.

Poor earnings takes the wind out of my sales and more often than not brings me into conflict with my clients when he ask me to do a few little extras for him.

Not only am i very badly paid but i am aggressively down rated by UpWork that makes it near impossible to get off the ground.

jsutherland · ‎03-10-2016

If you accept a job and at the rate shown or negotiated and you can't do you 100% best for your client then you should not be in this type of freelancing.

captaincad · ‎03-10-2016

I have worked Elance Upwork for about 6 years. Elance was great. And most months i could earn $2000.00 or more. Here on UpWork i have only earned $1000.00 over 6 month.

This is where i work. And i do not wont to go elsewhere. I love working with clients and producing something really amazing for my customers. However it is such a kick up the backside when i get paid so bad.

It is not the client that are at fault. It is the way UpWork has been designed. It has been designed to reduce the earnings of Freelancers. I know that. I speak from experience.

I would like to see upwork stop boasting and bragging about having 14 million paying members. It worries me that with 14 million paying membership fees nothing else matters.

I really do not wont to go and work somewhere else cos i think it would be to everyones benefit and especailly our clients if UpWork could make the changes for the better that will increase the earnings of the freelancers.

researchediting · ‎03-10-2016

@John V wrote:

It is not the client that are at fault. It is the way UpWork has been designed. It has been designed to reduce the earnings of Freelancers. I know that. I speak from experience.

That experience is not generalizable, and your inference is illogical as well as unsupportable. Just like all of us, Upwork's in it for the money.

researchediting · ‎03-10-2016

@John V wrote:
I find that i am so badly paid on UpWork that it is very hard to give of my best to my client.

It's the clients who pay you, John, not Upwork. If you don't want to be badly paid, don't pick badly paying clients. If there are no good paying clients here in your field, follow the money.

Best,

Michael

jsutherland · ‎03-10-2016

He is not looking for answers. It seem obvious now so the only other purpose is to whine.....again!!!

captaincad · ‎03-10-2016

I really dont wont to move on to another work place.

I have worked here for +- 6 years. (Elance / Upwork)

That is just that way i do things. I stay and try and sort out the problem and contribute to improving things here and for the other freelancer in my engineering sector.

researchediting · ‎03-10-2016

@John V wrote:

....That is just that way i do things. I stay and try and sort out the problem and contribute to improving things here and for the other freelancer in my engineering sector.

John,

That attitude is admirable. It may be that the only thing you can do to improve your prospects here is not to work for less than your work is worth. It's worked so far for me. I wish you even better success.

Best,

Michael

wendy_writes · ‎03-10-2016

John, you know your value. Quote it and don't worry. The fastest route to disillusionment, misery and ruin is to drop your worth; it impacts far more than your bank account.

There are other sites out there plus local networking, LI, etc.. Your comfort zone might be less than it was on E but that holds true for many of us. And we're not starving ...

kamsan098 · ‎03-11-2016

@Wendy C wrote:
John, you know your value. Quote it and don't worry. The fastest route to disillusionment, misery and ruin is to drop your worth; it impacts far more than your bank account.

Wendy, I know you wrote this reply to someone else, but I felt like I should say something here. Please allow me.

I was working in Elance and Odesk for one year. Okay, one year isn't much, but I was happy with what I was getting in the beginning. My personal opinion is that a newcomer should have a modest pay and work hard in order to build up an online career. But after a while, say six months, the moment I increased the hourly rate just a little bit, landing a proposal successfully didn't stay so smooth for me. Honestly, if I quote my worth in Upwork, no one will hire me.

In support of this I should say that many times I checked the profiles of freelancers who were actually hired for a particular project. They have a worse profile, experience and background than me. MOST Upwork clients are just looking at the hourly rate and going with the cheapest stuff. Right now I have set a lower per hour rate which I know shouldn't be my worth. Oh well, I have to earn something, right?

And then came the second blow in the form of this notorious opaque manipulative JSS. And presently I am down to one client in Upwork. I have all 5 stars (from clients who actually bothered to leave a feedback) and only one 4 star from Elance [it became 3.95 (WTH!!!!) here in Upwork, no idea why, even the helpdesk was extremely vague about it]

So, no. Quoting my worth is not helping AT ALL. I know many freelancers who are facing exactly the same situation as mine. I'm sure I'm not being dramatic, it's just the way Upwork is favoring the clients and ruining freelancers like us.

researchediting · ‎03-11-2016

@Kamalika S wrote:
...and only one 4 star from Elance [it became 3.95 (WTH!!!!) here in Upwork, no idea why, even the helpdesk was extremely vague about it]

Elance rounded star scores to one decimal place. Upwork rounds to two. The underlying value rounded to two places was always 3.95, which Elance rounded up to 4.0. It was the underlying value, rather than the rounded one(s), that was imported with your history.

Best,

Michael

kamsan098 · ‎03-11-2016

@Douglas Michael M wrote:
@Kamalika S wrote:
...and only one 4 star from Elance [it became 3.95 (WTH!!!!) here in Upwork, no idea why, even the helpdesk was extremely vague about it]
Elance rounded star scores to one decimal place. Upwork rounds to two. The underlying value rounded to two places was always 3.95, which Elance rounded up to 4.0. It was the underlying value, rather than the rounded one(s), that was imported with your history.

Best,
Michael

Thanks Michael. Your reply made it more understandable than the Tao and Zen-ish (no offence to that community!) communication mode of Upwork helpdesk.

andrewmo88 · ‎03-11-2016

The algotherim for calculating the job success score is absolutely broken. Below is my score, along side the list of jobs that were completed (some of which were ported over from Elance).

4 jobs complete, two with positive feedback. 2 with no feedback, but from some the same client. One in progress. Below is the chat I had with support regarding this issue;

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

suznee · ‎03-11-2016

Andrew,

I would suggest you edit your post as posting conversations you had with anyone is against the forum rules. If you don't a moderator will.

Unfortunately I can't see your image as it is blurry and very small, and you have yourself set to private so I can't see your profile.

I gathered support was telling you that it did not matter on Elance if feedback was missing but it does here. One of two with no feedback depending on the amount of work you have done may or may not impact your score. Repeated jobs with no feedback although do.

If you do a bunch of refunds or you do not complete jobs it affects your score. Negative private feedback can also affect your score...

Sneezing can also affect your score ... jk... But it is how it feels here. Not much use trying to get upper management to do anything as they won't.

andrewmo88 · ‎03-11-2016

You're absolutely right, its probably because I sneezed....or blinked.

I don't think posting support conversations should be against the terms of service - its being used a reference information to my concern .If it does get removed, it would lead me to believe there is something that needs to be hidden.

If a job is marked as "Complete" - I would imagine that suggests clients satisfaction, review or not. I think if a client was unsatisfied with the work being completed they would simply cancel.

suznee · ‎03-11-2016

@Andrew M wrote:
You're absolutely right, its probably because I sneezed....or blinked.

I don't think posting support conversations should be against the terms of service - its being used a reference information to my concern .If it does get removed, it would lead me to believe there is something that needs to be hidden.

If a job is marked as "Complete" - I would imagine that suggests clients satisfaction, review or not. I think if a client was unsatisfied with the work being completed they would simply cancel.

There is a whole list of things that will get your posts edited or removed or get you removed from forum. One of them is ...

Posting email content, chat transcripts or other private communication.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Announcements/Upwork-Community-Guidelines/m-p/3#U3

kulkarni_ashish · ‎03-21-2016

@Andrew M wrote:

If a job is marked as "Complete" - I would imagine that suggests clients satisfaction, review or not. I think if a client was unsatisfied with the work being completed they would simply cancel.

I will have to disagree. If a freelancer successfully completes a job, albeit with a few expletives thrown towards the client, would the client still have 100% satisfaction? Clients won't cancel a time critical job!

Cheers!

Ashish.

wester_weerdt · ‎03-21-2016

Hi.

I am Wester de Weerdt from Netherlands.

I have started work on 22 Jan 2016 and have earned Top Rated on 7 Mar.

Today I have seen that my JSS has down to 83%.

I have read some articles and realized that no-activity contracts are the main reason of this.

I have 2 fixed-price jobs which are started 2 weeks ago and did not have any activity yet.

I couldn't start work because one client had to purchase devices before starting work and other client had to come back from Vietnam to US (He has come back yesterday.)

Is there any ways to fix this problem? Or are there any other things of decreasing my JSS?

Thanks.

Wester.

VladimirG · ‎03-21-2016

@Wester d wrote:

Is there any ways to fix this problem? Or are there any other things of decreasing my JSS?

Hi Wester,

For more information about how the Job Success score is calculated, please take a look at this Help Article and this thread. We can't provide additional details in order to protect the integrity of the score.

Please note that the Job Success Score reflects all contracts the freelancer has accepted, regardless of whether money was paid or not. This means that a pattern of cancelled contracts can affect a freelancer's score. It's important for freelancers to discuss the terms and project scope in advance, and only accept contract they are certain they have time and skill to complete.

You are off to a great start so please take note of the advice mentioned here and in our previous posts in order to continue building a successful career on Upwork.

~ Vladimir