๐Ÿˆ Community
kostiantyn_w
Member

Upwork deos not stick to the mission

I have noticed that all my certificates I had on Odesk have gone.
It looks like Upwork has found having certificates from MIT, Harvard and other Universities on freelancer profile inappropriate.
I just want to say few words, hoping them will get reach responsible for that people.

Deleting certificates from online studying platforms like eDX and Coursera, Upwork weakens position of world-wide education. Spreading and supporting education( including online eduction ) are vital for the health of the world. The world can't be healthy without the support of education by big companies.

Education( including online ) multiply people who could do intellectual work. Without education freelancer platforms would not exist. Support of education is beneficial for such platforms.

Beyond that having no information about freelancer's certificates is a bad thing for the client. In RnD projects or in long-term projects, which take more than a year, it's critical to know that candidate is able to learn new material and be creative. The presence of certificates from educational platforms is a sign that freelancer possibly has such critical for the project traits. By only concatenating on special certificates Upwork gives benefit small-scale projects requiring narrow specialist over long-term, venture, and RnD projects.

Linkedin allows adding online education certificates. Some freelancers platforms allow that too. So I don't see reasonable explanation behind that harmful for everybody decision of Upwork.

In summary, that decision:

- don't care about clients with long-term and RnD projects
- weaken positions of freelancers which are able to learn and be creative over freelancers which are highly specialized
- weakens positions of world-wide education and its spreading
- signals that Upwork becomes less and less socially responsible company
- signals that new Upwork's decision making strategy is narrow-minded
- signals that further Upwork platform degradation is expected
- shows that Upwork's decision makers don't realize its role and don't stick to the mission.

The mission of Upwork is "to connect businesses with great talent to work without limits." Online courses certificates is a sign that candidate possibly has a talent and education removes limits. I think Upwork should be more socially responsible than it currently is.

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


@Kostiantyn M wrote:


One more thing.
I don't think we or Upwork should decide or judge which form of education is better.
I believe Upwork should give both forms equal respect and let the market decide.
Those who think traditional education is the only form of education will look on academic qualification only.
Those who share my point of view will take into account all sources of information.


 You are missing the point.

 

This is not about what type of education is "better" at all.

 

I think online courses are brilliant, I am halfway through this one for example!

 

The problem with allowing people to add certificates that can't be easily and automatically verified was that too many people added all sorts of made up, bogus, fake, invented certificates as well as certifications they don't even hold.

 

As it would be prohibitively expensive to have staff to check every certificate added by every freelancer manually to verify it is 1) real, 2) not tampered with and 3) a valid certification, they had little choice but to restrict which certificates they allow to those that can be verified quickly, easily and cheaply.

 

The other option might be to offer freelancers a manual verification of their certificates at a cost of ... whatever.... $ maybe 20 per certificate?

View solution in original post

16 REPLIES 16
tlsanders
Member

Wow, there's a lot of drama to sort through here. Upwork's mission, of course, has never been to "support education" or secure the health of the world...it's to make money by connecting freelancers with clients who need their services.

 

If you look through the list of certifications that are permitted, you will notice that they are largely (perhaps exclusively--I didn't take the time to check every one) offered by either the entity itself (for example, Cisco offers several different certifications in working with Cisco systems, Hubspot offers certifications in the use of its marketing platforms, and Google offers AdWords certifications). 

 

These certifications aren't about showing or encouraging "education"--they're about showing a client that a freelancer has a very specific skill as that skill is defined by the software manufacturer or system designer whose product he or she will be employing in the job.

 

This, of course, does nothing to weaken the position of a freelancer bidding on a different type of job to which these skills aren't relevant...clients are interested in the skills that apply to their projects.

lysis10
Member

haha my friend used to joke that she went to harvard. Harvard has some online courses you can take, so she used to say that whenever people put "Harvard" on their profile you knew they were stretching the truth because it's just online courses no different than any of the other online sites. 

Hi Jennifer, so you diminish online education relative regular education, yeah? Smiley Happy
If so what is your point of view regarding online ( remote/freelance ) work?
Is that smallish relative work in-office?

You see? The world evolves, and everything undergoes changes.
Online education could be as good ( or as bad ) as traditional education.
Just like online work could be as good ( or as bad ) as traditional work in-office.

No, Jennifer, I think your friend is wrong, generally.
There is big difference between online courses.
If some university stands behind online course then professors of the university involved in its creation. And often many professors as well as postgraduates.
Most online courses designed to give fundamental knowledge and skills in the field.
But in fact, fundamentals are everything needed, because all further knowledge and skills could be obtained learner by him/her own.

Also, such information says a lot about internal driving forces of a candidate what is much more important for long-term projects than information from tests taken.

online courses are ok but I definitely wouldn't put them close to legitimate. They are ok to get some basic idea but nah they aren't anything to brag about.

 

I'd still use them though and pretend like they are good just for giggles for a place like this. lol I dunno maybe to the clueless they look good but I wouldn't say much if I was in a room of college graduates. lol But this is Upwork where so so sooo many posers just put anything on their profile, so whatever.

 

For Upwork though, I mean you got people making up so many things on their profile. My friend gave me the link a long time ago, and I thought about just watching them and then I can put Harvard on my profile but meh I'd feel like such a poser.

 

Maybe I'll join the cool kids and do it but I dunno. Not a priority.

> online courses are ok but I definitely wouldn't put them close to legitimate?
why?

> and then I can put Harvard on my profile
you can't if you didn't earn one. each certificate ships with verifiable link from authority source.

 


@Kostiantyn M wrote:

> online courses are ok but I definitely wouldn't put them close to legitimate?
why?

> and then I can put Harvard on my profile
you can't if you didn't earn one. each certificate ships with verifiable link from authority source.

 


 There is a world of difference between being accepted for and completing a 4 year degree course at Harvard and doing some online certificate.

 

That's what Jennifer meant.

Hi Petra.

 

Is your point that one can't have as strong skills, knowldge and desires as one who was accepted for the first year of Harvard? Is that so?

 


Kostiantyn M wrote

 

Is your point that one can't have as strong skills, knowldge and desires as one who was accepted for the first year of Harvard? Is that so?

 


 My point is that as an academic qualification, a graduate degree from an Ivy League university is a world apart from a certificate for having done a little online course.

 

I have no idea how you could even dream of giving them equal status.


This has absolutely nothing to do with a person's "skills, knowledge and desires"

 

 

Oh, good point!
Is the same relevant to freelancing versus work in-office?
Ten years ago everybody believed that freelancing cant' be serious business.
Even today there are lots of skeptics.

Petra, lets look on that from the other angle.
Academic qualification is given not for single, but for mastering nearly 40ty different subjects.
The single online course certificate is given for one single subject mastered.
So YES. Absolutely agree. Comparing a single certificate with academic qualification is the same thing as comparing a car with a wheel. The first consists of several latest things.

My original post was about "skills, knowledge, and desires."
Completed tests, as well as academic qualification, tells where freelancer WAS.
For me as a person interested in hiring a TALENT important to know where a candidate is moving to, a point of destination. What does his/her target, what is his/here passion, what does move him/here, is him/here creative, can he/she push himself/herself further.
Academic qualification has nothing to do with creativity. Unfortunately.

One more thing.
I don't think we or Upwork should decide or judge which form of education is better.
I believe Upwork should give both forms equal respect and let the market decide.
Those who think traditional education is the only form of education will look on academic qualification only.
Those who share my point of view will take into account all sources of information.


@Kostiantyn M wrote:


One more thing.
I don't think we or Upwork should decide or judge which form of education is better.
I believe Upwork should give both forms equal respect and let the market decide.
Those who think traditional education is the only form of education will look on academic qualification only.
Those who share my point of view will take into account all sources of information.


 You are missing the point.

 

This is not about what type of education is "better" at all.

 

I think online courses are brilliant, I am halfway through this one for example!

 

The problem with allowing people to add certificates that can't be easily and automatically verified was that too many people added all sorts of made up, bogus, fake, invented certificates as well as certifications they don't even hold.

 

As it would be prohibitively expensive to have staff to check every certificate added by every freelancer manually to verify it is 1) real, 2) not tampered with and 3) a valid certification, they had little choice but to restrict which certificates they allow to those that can be verified quickly, easily and cheaply.

 

The other option might be to offer freelancers a manual verification of their certificates at a cost of ... whatever.... $ maybe 20 per certificate?


@Petra R wrote:

The other option might be to offer freelancers a manual verification of their certificates at a cost of ... whatever.... $ maybe 20 per certificate?


 This is what they do with the Duolingo English Proficiency certificate. I have it, it costs $50 to take the exam.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

--------------

The problem with allowing people to add certificates that can't be easily and automatically verified was that too many people added all sorts of made up, bogus, fake, invented certificates as well as certifications they don't even hold.

--------------

 

Easy solution list of trusted sources.
Any certificate from trusted source is treated as proven.
eDx and Coursera must be on the list.
For other platforms should be a procedure to get into the list.

 


@Kostiantyn M wrote:

--------------

The problem with allowing people to add certificates that can't be easily and automatically verified was that too many people added all sorts of made up, bogus, fake, invented certificates as well as certifications they don't even hold.

--------------

 

Easy solution list of trusted sources.
Any certificate from trusted source is treated as proven.
eDx and Coursera must be on the list.
For other platforms should be a procedure to get into the list.

 


 eDx and Coursera offer thousands of courses from a wide variety of sources. The vast majority in no way represent themselves as providing expertise in a specific skill, and the course certificate issued is nothing more than verification that you took the course--by your standard, we should each be able to enter a certification for each course we took during our undergraduate and graduate educations. For example, I should have a certificate in Geology, and another in Astronomy,  though I took exactly one course in each of those areas more than 25 years ago, have absolutely no practical experience in either field, and have no more expertise in either area than my cat does.

 

If you've looked at the list of allowed certificates, perhaps you have noticed that each of those courses is narrowly tailored to a specific freelancing-related skill, and completion of each of those courses represents a certain level of practical knowledge and ability in the particular task at hand.

 

You may want to know where a freelancer is going in life and about his motivations and passions (and blah, blah, blah), but I can assure you that most freelancing clients are far more interested in whether that freelancer has the very specific skills required to complete a very specific project.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Kostiantyn,

 

There is nothing wrong with people completing online courses and receiving certificates. We do encourage freelancers to constantly work on improving their skills. 

 

Currently a freelancer can't add any certificate but can only choose a verifiable certificate from the list which is also posted here. We are working on expanding the list of verifiable certificates and welcome you to use the "Suggest certificate" option you'll when entering a certificate not available on the list.

 

Freelancers can also mention additional qualifications, certificates and courses they've completed in their profile overview and "Other experiences" section.

~ Valeria
Upwork

That's pity, Valeria.

 

Hi,

 

I have one suggetion on certificate. 

EF SET is having a free of cost certification. May be that could be better if added to the list.

 

You can check the certificate format from my link here  My Certificate

Thanks

Nimesh

Upcoming Events
Oct 27
Nov 29