Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

Upwork has no shame

zoomconcepts
Community Guru
Bojana D Member Since: May 2, 2011
51 of 69

@Andrei L wrote:

I am not missing any point. An american seller which sells locally - and the place of business for Upwork is USA - does not comply to foreign laws. An american seller does not collect taxes on behalf of foreign countries. Should Upwork open an office in EU, that office's activity will be governed by the EU law. I urge Upwork to see council from a competent tax adviser, because charging VAT based on a foreign law is dead wrong and it is liable for a lawsuit


You keep going in circles. Did you open the link and read the change in legislation at all? The EU now rerquires all non-EU suppliers (USA suppliers as well) to charge their EU clients VAT at the rate specified in the country where the buyer is based and to pay said VAT to EU governments. Said change makes it irrelevent that Upwork's place of business is outside of EU - if they supply services to EU clients, they need to charge VAT. 

alupu
Active Member
Andrei L Member Since: May 6, 2015
52 of 69

How do I keep going in circles ? Do you have law school diploma ? Well , I have. Again, EU law applies on EU territory, it is not enforceable outside EU. EU might require whatever it wants, the american companies are not legally bound to respect any EU law while operating in USA, under the american law EXCLUSIVELY. 

jmeyn
Community Guru
Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
53 of 69

@Andrei L wrote:

How do I keep going in circles ? Do you have law school diploma ? Well , I have. Again, EU law applies on EU territory, it is not enforceable outside EU. EU might require whatever it wants, the american companies are not legally bound to respect any EU law while operating in USA, under the american law EXCLUSIVELY. 


Andrei,

 

Well, as soon as they sell and buy in Europe they are also operating in Europe. True, there is this problem of enforceability. It's not easy but the US illustrated how to do it with the Swiss banks. They detained a couple of Swiss bankers, blocked access to funds in the US etc. Clear case of not respecting Switzerland's laws. Not to speak of drone killings in foreign countries without trial... The list could go on forever. 

 

And, at the end of the day, not the US company is liable for paying the VAT. It's you and all other people buying services from said US company. On these imports VAT is due. Just like if you buy a car from the US. It has to be built to EU specifications, even country specifications and you have to pay importation VAT on it.

jmeyn
Community Guru
Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
54 of 69

@Andrei L wrote:

I am not missing any point. An american seller which sells locally - and the place of business for Upwork is USA - does not comply to foreign laws. An american seller does not collect taxes on behalf of foreign countries. Should Upwork open an office in EU, that office's activity will be governed by the EU law. I urge Upwork to see council from a competent tax adviser, because charging VAT based on a foreign law is dead wrong and it is liable for a lawsuit


Andrei,

 

Just as lwe Europeans are forced to comply to US laws in some areas (think of the Swiss banks and US taxes or if want to sell anything to US businesses you have to comply with their regulations), so will Upwork and others have to comply to EU legislation if they want to remain active here. I don't understand the fuss anyway. As a business you are and have always been obliged to pay importation VAT on Upwork's invoices for their services.

alupu
Active Member
Andrei L Member Since: May 6, 2015
55 of 69

You are obssesed with importation. I can buy a car in America sitting in front of my laptop here in Romania. As long as I don't bring the car here in Romania, I do not own VAT  for it. It is my car, I payed money for it , yet , as long as it sits in America, is VAT free. The same goes for services. Upwork offers a brokering service, but this service takes place in America, I do not import it, it is not importable since it happens, it consumes in America and cannot take place anywhere else. And no, I do not owe VAT since Upwork activates according to american law, which does not require VAT

jmeyn
Community Guru
Joachim M Member Since: Mar 23, 2015
56 of 69

@Andrei L wrote:

You are obssesed with importation. I can buy a car in America sitting in front of my laptop here in Romania. As long as I don't bring the car here in Romania, I do not own VAT  for it. It is my car, I payed money for it , yet , as long as it sits in America, is VAT free. The same goes for services. Upwork offers a brokering service, but this service takes place in America, I do not import it, it is not importable since it happens, it consumes in America and cannot take place anywhere else. And no, I do not owe VAT since Upwork activates according to american law, which does not require VAT


True you can do that with a car. But by buying a service in the US and using it for your company in Romania you are importing it. Read up the necessary EU legislation on it, it has all been posted in the forum alreadyl. You claim to have a law degree, then you ought to be able to comprehend the EU documentation. 

alupu
Active Member
Andrei L Member Since: May 6, 2015
57 of 69

Dude, if I sit in Romania and buy online a car in America , where is the place of selling ? It's America The same goes for services Even if I am in Romania, the seller is in America and the service is effectively taking place in America, so the place of selling is America SO the applicable law is th american law If you are interested in the subject , try to find  treaty on "International Private Law" and have a good read 

elastella
Community Guru
Ela K Member Since: Feb 9, 2015
58 of 69

@Andrei L wrote:

Dude, if I sit in Romania and buy online a car in America , where is the place of selling ? It's America The same goes for services Even if I am in Romania, the seller is in America and the service is effectively taking place in America, so the place of selling is America SO the applicable law is th american law If you are interested in the subject , try to find  treaty on "International Private Law" and have a good read 


It doesn't matter where the seller of the service is based - only the location of the end consumer matters. VAT is a consumer tax - and the end consumer has always been liable to pay it.

It's the EU tax authorities that want their slice of the revenue generated by (US) digital companies.

 

Oh, I have a law degree as well.

alupu
Active Member
Andrei L Member Since: May 6, 2015
59 of 69

**edited for Community Guidelines** I am going to stop commenting on the subject since clearly, even people with a law degree don't seem to understand basic notions such as  sovereignity and territoriality of law enforcement. Anyway, the day Upwork starts to charge VAT will be my last day here I know, it's a tragedy, the world will end and whatnot, but SO LONG  Y'ALL

This widget could not be displayed.
60 of 69
This widget could not be displayed.

Some people here do not have a problem with the VAT, they want to stay under the radar of their local tax authorities. However, they are already on the radar screen by working here and discussing in this public community as well.

TOP KUDOED MEMBERS