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ahmetsamsa
Community Member

Upwork need to change way things works.

Hi, I'm kind of new to upwork and I started to don't like the way things work.
I'm applying for job spesific to my skills.


These are thing I don't like;

  • Client that open jobs and doesn't revivew any proposal at all or doesn't show up at all. (Mostly these kind of job require 4+ connections. So they are wasted.)
  • Client that know job is going to take less than 1-2 days but choose 1-6 month. This kind of job require 6 connections. Upwork need give back thoose connection if job take less than 1 week.
  • Client that open design job as low as 5$. ( I know you can propose more than 5$ but it show avarage price rate is 5$. So chances of getting job is really slim when you propose high price. It doesn't even worth to spend 2+ connection on it.)
  • Client that closed job without hiring anyone. Those connection are wasted too.
  • %20 fee is too high. Atleast don't make us wait 2-3 weeks to get money we earned.  I have to wait atleast 10 days before I could withdraw money I earned from any jobs. This time should be less for design related jobs.  I will understand if we have to wait 2-3 weeks for jobs that need to be verified or tested by clients even after they  verified payment.( For exp. website, script, software) But design job doesn't require any verification .Once client is happy with design that's it. 
    We shouldn't have to wait to get that money. 

 

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


Ozan S wrote:

Tiffany S wrote:

Ozan S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Nah, we want you to win. We just define winning differently than you do. You all seem to define it as "proving that Upwork sucks," whereas we define it as "making many thousands of dollars per month on our own schedules from the locations of our choice."

 

I think many of us just can't get our minds around the fact that so many people would rather prove all of their problems are Upwork's fault than solve them.


 

You're proving my point well Tiffany, thanks. Thanks for pointing out that there's actually a "we" versus "them" mentality here, and thanks for including me in the latter group, too. And while you went as far as claiming that we lot have been claiming that Upwork sucks, "I" can personally tell you that I have never involved myself in such talks, and have always solely pointed out the (albeit unintentional) unfairnesses I've observed in the system, like the fact that higher chance of winning a proposal war being skewed towards existing users with established profiles, regardless they're better than others or not. This is NOT saying that Upwork sucks -- this is calling Upwork to action, so that maybe they would do something to balance things out. This applies to pretty much every other issue I've raised myself or kudoed till today.

 

See, "making many thousands of dollars per month" and all other things you mentioned are not things that everyone here gets to have. I can assure you though, it's not because these people are any lesser, but because they're just "not there yet". This platform is just, but it's not equal to everyone, simply because luck and a thousand other things play a big role. Some people may not understand this because they're in need of money and losing patience, and they may then (unfairly) say "Upwork sucks". Of course, this is not nice, and of course, they're not right. But if you were true "community gurus" (lol), you lot would rather explain this to them instead of saying "you should STFU or find a different platform". I don't see that sentiment here. I don't see even minuscule of it honestly.

 

And I wonder -- if you can't wrap your mind around people and their problems, why even comment? There are dozens of responses here and all they do is to make the OP angry. They don't help. Not even one bit.


We all started out as new users with new profiles. I have only been here since 2016, but I worked in the brick and mortar world for 20+ years before that. I had to take jobs at significantly lower rates and sometimes even jobs not in my field to get a good JSS and gradually increase my rate. The trick is hard work and figuring out how to work *within* the system. I think my first gig paid 50 bucks and one of my best paying gigs at the time was hand writing letters, even though I'm a graphic designer, like the OP.

 

The fact is the OP has had what MOST freelancers just starting out here would consider GREAT success, and he himself appears on track to make thousands of dollars per month. And no, not everyone here gets to have that, but my advice to him remains: keep doing what you're doing, have patience, and choose projects to apply to very carefully. Once you start getting invitations and repeat clients, the connects system will no longer seem like such a huge problem.

 

(Also feel free to share your suggestion directly with UW, because I don't think the best way to effect change in their business model is by posting in the forums.)

View solution in original post

55 REPLIES 55
florydev
Community Member

Yeah...no

tlsanders
Community Member

Nearly everything you mention here would be extremely labor-intensive to implement and much of it would require human judgment, meaning that it would be very, very expensive for Upwork to implement--especially since the customer service staff would have to be dramatically increased to field all of the questions and complaints about judgments people didn't like.

 

If you don't like paying 20% on the first little bit of a client relationship, I'm sure you would dislike it even more if Upwork had to radically increase fees to hire the army of employees you are proposing.


Tiffany S wrote:

Nearly everything you mention here would be extremely labor-intensive to implement and much of it would require human judgment, meaning that it would be very, very expensive for Upwork to implement--especially since the customer service staff would have to be dramatically increased to field all of the questions and complaints about judgments people didn't like.

 

If you don't like paying 20% on the first little bit of a client relationship, I'm sure you would dislike it even more if Upwork had to radically increase fees to hire the army of employees you are proposing.


Its not hard to add if variable to algrotihm
check if job take less than 1 week  refund extra connections
check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections
add option for client to bypass payment verification progress so we don't have to wait 2-3 weeks before we are able to withdraw the money.
Most of thing I mentioned doesn't require any human judgment, it can be done automatically. No need human interaction at all just a couple of code lines.




Ahmet S wrote:

Its not hard to add if variable to algrotihm
check if job take less than 1 week  refund extra connections

 

And how would the algorithm know whether the job actually wasn't a large one or the freelancer did a bad job and got replaced, or the freelancer or client had to discontinue the project for funding or health or one of a million other reasons, or they made a change in the agreement and closed the contract to start a new project...or, on the flipside, whether the work was completed in a week but, like a great many projects on Upwork, the contract wasn't closed for months?


check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections

 

And thus close a lot of active jobs where the client is monitoring email notifications of submissions and hasn't gone back to the posting because he hasn't yet seen anyone he wants to hire.


add option for client to bypass payment verification progress so we don't have to wait 2-3 weeks before we are able to withdraw the money.

 

The delay is to protect Upwork, since the company is the one left holding the bag if the client doesn't pay. The client waiving that protection in no way helps Upwork when it turns out that the credit card is rejected or was stolen or something else goes wrong.


Most of thing I mentioned doesn't require any human judgment, it can be done automatically. No need human interaction at all just a couple of code lines.

Just a couple of code lines that will radically f*** everything up, because the realities are nowhere near as simple as you assume. The variations I mentioned above are a tiny fraction of the ways in which simple yes/no or timeline analysis will not yield reliable information.

 

As far as refunding connects....Upwork has spent a huge amount of time and effort over the past several months implementing various practices to try to limit the number of connects freelancers have and cut down the number of jobs freelancers bid on. Why would they want to undo all that work by letting the freelancers who choose worst when bidding on jobs recycle connects?


 

"And how would the algorithm know whether the job actually wasn't a large one or the freelancer did a bad job and got replaced, or the freelancer or client had to discontinue the project for funding or health or one of a million other reasons, or they made a change in the agreement and closed the contract to start a new project...or, on the flipside, whether the work was completed in a week but, like a great many projects on Upwork, the contract wasn't closed for months?"

 

Its not hard for algorithm to know how too handle progress. We are living in technology era. Everyting is being replaced by AI.  So this is basic job.

"

check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections

And thus close a lot of active jobs where the client is monitoring email notifications of submissions and hasn't gone back to the posting because he hasn't yet seen anyone he wants to hire."


I'm talking about client that doesn't show up at all. It show last acitve 15+ days and in job desciption tell job is urgent. Does it matter if she/he checking emails. 
Also its not possible to see whole content of each proposal from emails. 
So upwork earn around 50+ $ from jobs that aren't active at all.  It get this money from sumbitted proposals. 

 


Ahmet S wrote:

"And how would the algorithm know whether the job actually wasn't a large one or the freelancer did a bad job and got replaced, or the freelancer or client had to discontinue the project for funding or health or one of a million other reasons, or they made a change in the agreement and closed the contract to start a new project...or, on the flipside, whether the work was completed in a week but, like a great many projects on Upwork, the contract wasn't closed for months?"

 

Its not hard for algorithm to know how too handle progress. We are living in technology era. Everyting is being replaced by AI.  So this is basic job.

 

Looks like you're doomed then, whatever UpWork decides to do and whatever platform you choose to use.
"

check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections

And thus close a lot of active jobs where the client is monitoring email notifications of submissions and hasn't gone back to the posting because he hasn't yet seen anyone he wants to hire."


I'm talking about client that doesn't show up at all. It show last acitve 15+ days and in job desciption tell job is urgent. Does it matter if she/he checking emails. 
Also its not possible to see whole content of each proposal from emails. 
So upwork earn around 50+ $ from jobs that aren't active at all.  It get this money from sumbitted proposals. 

 


 


Ahmet S wrote:

 

Its not hard for algorithm to know how too handle progress. We are living in technology era. Everyting is being replaced by AI.  So this is basic job.

 

Fascinating. So, will your algorithm be requiring me to enter information about what I'm doing into Upwork on a regular basis so it can track progress (creating unnecessary, unpaid work for me) or will it be intruding into my computer to measure how many pages I've written and whether or not my file has been accessed regularly? How will it know whether those pages are a rough draft representing a small percentage of the final project or a near-final draft representing 80%?

michael_skaggs
Community Member


Ahmet S wrote:
  • Client that open jobs and doesn't revivew any proposal at all or doesn't show up at all. (Mostly these kind of job require 4+ connections. So they are wasted.)

Clients may or may not be reviewing proposals, but there's no way for a freelancer to know this.

 


  • Client that know job is going to take less than 1-2 days but choose 1-6 month. This kind of job require 6 connections. Upwork need give back thoose connection if job take less than 1 week.

The client may know no such thing. They simply estimate how long they believe it will take, but that doesn't mean they have a realistic grasp of the actual timeframes involved. That's part of why they're hiring a freelancer to begin with. Also, connects aren't returned if a job takes less time than expected because the system doesn't retroactively change things. The algorithm is flawed, yes, but even if it perfectly estimated the number of connects, it wouldn't refund any just because someone was able to get a job done faster than the client estimated.

 


  • Client that open design job as low as 5$. ( I know you can propose more than 5$ but it show avarage price rate is 5$. So chances of getting job is really slim when you propose high price. It doesn't even worth to spend 2+ connection on it.)

Some clients do expect work that cheap. However, a great many simply use that as a placeholder because they have to put something in that field. They fully expect people to bid higher. As a freelancer, it's up to you to not only do your diligence to figure out if the client is worth your time, but also to bid what you are worth regardless of any placeholder budget. If you're actually worth what you're bidding and have a client willing to pay that, you'll be fine. But it's your responsibility to figure this out, since you're the one running a business. Upwork is just a platform for finding potential clients.

 


  • Client that closed job without hiring anyone. Those connection are wasted too.

Happens all the time. Even in the real world where no connects are involved, you still spend your time and effort to create a proposal, fill out an application, etc., even if a client never hires anyone. Things can and do happen. Clients may not find what they're looking for on Upwork, they may forget about the posting, they may end up not having time to do the project, or any number of other factors. Whether it's time, effort, connects, or anything else, as a freelancer, this is part of the cost of doing business.

 


  • %20 fee is too high. Atleast don't make us wait 2-3 weeks to get money we earned.  I have to wait atleast 10 days before I could withdraw money I earned from any jobs. This time should be less for design related jobs.  I will understand if we have to wait 2-3 weeks for jobs that need to be verified or tested by clients even after they  verified payment.( For exp. website, script, software) But design job doesn't require any verification .Once client is happy with design that's it. 
    We shouldn't have to wait to get that money. 

The 20% fee is only on the first $500 with each client. After that, it becomes 10%, until you've earned over $10,000 with that client, when it drops to 5%. Keep in mind that this is on a per client basis, not overall.

 

As for how long it takes to get your money, it's really no different than working in the real world. If you work an hourly job in the real world, you still have to wait until the pay period is actually over before the hours are tallied and a check is issued. If I go to work on Monday, I don't get paid then. I have to wait until the work week ends, and I'll get a check at the end of the following week. Same thing happens here.

 

For fixed price, it's the same as working on a Net14 basis or similar. They have that long to review the work you submitted before releasing payment, and Upwork isn't going to make different rules for different types of work. You submit the work, and from there, the client has a 14 day period to review said work. Even if it's something they can sign-off on right away, sometimes they're busy with other things and can't get to it right away. Other times, it's simply easier for them to let the 14 days expire and have the payment happen automatically if they don't need any changes. It's convenient for them, and still makes sure the freelancer gets paid.

 

Since you're new to Upwork, I highly suggest you take a look at https://www.upwork.com/hiring/education/getting-started-for-freelancers/ to get an overview of how the platform works.

 

Also, https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211063698-Weekly-Billing-Cycle will tell explain exactly how payments work.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not an Upwork staff member, nor do I represent them in any way.


Michael S wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:
  • Client that open jobs and doesn't revivew any proposal at all or doesn't show up at all. (Mostly these kind of job require 4+ connections. So they are wasted.)

Clients may or may not be reviewing proposals, but there's no way for a freelancer to know this.

 


  • Client that know job is going to take less than 1-2 days but choose 1-6 month. This kind of job require 6 connections. Upwork need give back thoose connection if job take less than 1 week.

The client may know no such thing. They simply estimate how long they believe it will take, but that doesn't mean they have a realistic grasp of the actual timeframes involved. That's part of why they're hiring a freelancer to begin with. Also, connects aren't returned if a job takes less time than expected because the system doesn't retroactively change things. The algorithm is flawed, yes, but even if it perfectly estimated the number of connects, it wouldn't refund any just because someone was able to get a job done faster than the client estimated.

 


  • Client that open design job as low as 5$. ( I know you can propose more than 5$ but it show avarage price rate is 5$. So chances of getting job is really slim when you propose high price. It doesn't even worth to spend 2+ connection on it.)

Some clients do expect work that cheap. However, a great many simply use that as a placeholder because they have to put something in that field. They fully expect people to bid higher. As a freelancer, it's up to you to not only do your diligence to figure out if the client is worth your time, but also to bid what you are worth regardless of any placeholder budget. If you're actually worth what you're bidding and have a client willing to pay that, you'll be fine. But it's your responsibility to figure this out, since you're the one running a business. Upwork is just a platform for finding potential clients.

 


  • Client that closed job without hiring anyone. Those connection are wasted too.

Happens all the time. Even in the real world where no connects are involved, you still spend your time and effort to create a proposal, fill out an application, etc., even if a client never hires anyone. Things can and do happen. Clients may not find what they're looking for on Upwork, they may forget about the posting, they may end up not having time to do the project, or any number of other factors. Whether it's time, effort, connects, or anything else, as a freelancer, this is part of the cost of doing business.

 


  • %20 fee is too high. Atleast don't make us wait 2-3 weeks to get money we earned.  I have to wait atleast 10 days before I could withdraw money I earned from any jobs. This time should be less for design related jobs.  I will understand if we have to wait 2-3 weeks for jobs that need to be verified or tested by clients even after they  verified payment.( For exp. website, script, software) But design job doesn't require any verification .Once client is happy with design that's it. 
    We shouldn't have to wait to get that money. 

The 20% fee is only on the first $500 with each client. After that, it becomes 10%, until you've earned over $10,000 with that client, when it drops to 5%. Keep in mind that this is on a per client basis, not overall.

 

As for how long it takes to get your money, it's really no different than working in the real world. If you work an hourly job in the real world, you still have to wait until the pay period is actually over before the hours are tallied and a check is issued. If I go to work on Monday, I don't get paid then. I have to wait until the work week ends, and I'll get a check at the end of the following week. Same thing happens here.

 

For fixed price, it's the same as working on a Net14 basis or similar. They have that long to review the work you submitted before releasing payment, and Upwork isn't going to make different rules for different types of work. You submit the work, and from there, the client has a 14 day period to review said work. Even if it's something they can sign-off on right away, sometimes they're busy with other things and can't get to it right away. Other times, it's simply easier for them to let the 14 days expire and have the payment happen automatically if they don't need any changes. It's convenient for them, and still makes sure the freelancer gets paid.

 

Since you're new to Upwork, I highly suggest you take a look at https://www.upwork.com/hiring/education/getting-started-for-freelancers/ to get an overview of how the platform works.

 

Also, https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211063698-Weekly-Billing-Cycle will tell explain exactly how payments work.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not an Upwork staff member, nor do I represent them in any way.


Thank you.
Atlast someone does suggest an opinon other than saying bla bla. Go to other platforms.
Its not hard to esmiate for couple of small changesin design  are not going to take 1-6 month period,
or you don't need to 5 freelacner for this job.

There is too many job that I see have 50+ proposal and require 6 connections. Client didn't showed up 30+ days.
50*0,15*6= 45$ (Assuming there is no more than 50 proposal)
In my opinion this unfair  gain that is going to direclly upwork.  


versailles
Community Member


Ahmet S wrote:

Hi, I'm kind of new to upwork and


Okay, listen, if you don't like it here, there are many other platforms to use. You just arrived and you already want for Upwork to completely change its business model to suit your needs. Not gonna to happen.

 

 

 

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

 


Rene K wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:

Hi, I'm kind of new to upwork and


Okay, listen, if you don't like it here, there are many other platforms to use. You just arrived and you already want for Upwork to completely change its business model to suit your needs. Not gonna to happen.

 




It need to change.
I earned around 2k in 2 month and 400$ paid as fee and there is ton of other people paying this much fee.
So it is ok for me to express my opinion about upwork. I'm pretty sure most of freelancer are having same problems.
I'm not asking too change fees I'm just asking to upwork change it way handles connections. Before they were free, so there wasn't this problem.  Now they cost money and most of them get wasted because of these problem I mentioned.

Also about other platfrom.
I'm already started to spend time on other platforms. 
The way things is going, upwork won't last long since there is better options out there without fees thish much high.




Ahmet S wrote:

It need to change.
I earned around 2k in 2 month and 400$ paid as fee and there is ton of other people paying this much fee.
So it is ok for me to express my opinion about upwork. I'm pretty sure most of freelancer are having same problems.
I'm not asking too change fees I'm just asking to upwork change it way handles connections. Before they were free, so there wasn't this problem.  Now they cost money and most of them get wasted because of these problem I mentioned.

Also about other platfrom.
I'm already started to spend time on other platforms. 
The way things is going, upwork won't last long since there is better options out there without fees thish much high.




Well, since Upwork is not going to last long, what would be the point in implementing your suggestions?  "Better options" are subjective. If you've found better options elsewhere, congratulations. No one is forcing you to stay on Upwork.

 


Virginia F wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:

It need to change.
I earned around 2k in 2 month and 400$ paid as fee and there is ton of other people paying this much fee.
So it is ok for me to express my opinion about upwork. I'm pretty sure most of freelancer are having same problems.
I'm not asking too change fees I'm just asking to upwork change it way handles connections. Before they were free, so there wasn't this problem.  Now they cost money and most of them get wasted because of these problem I mentioned.

Also about other platfrom.
I'm already started to spend time on other platforms. 
The way things is going, upwork won't last long since there is better options out there without fees thish much high.




Well, since Upwork is not going to last long, what would be the point in implementing your suggestions?  "Better options" are subjective. If you've found better options elsewhere, congratulations. No one is forcing you to stay on Upwork.




I think this explain it. 
Also I have never seen a toxic community like this. 3 out 5 people are giving crap about people opinion and tell them go **bleep** your self if you don't like system.

chrome_2019-08-24_23-53-01.png

 


Ahmet S wrote:

I think this explain it. 
Also I have never seen a toxic community like this. 3 out 5 people are giving crap about people opinion and tell them go **bleep** your self if you don't like system.

 


Surely, you must have (seen a toxic community like this)?

You are using internet.

What does that explain, Ahmet? The ENTIRE market has been down and that has nothing to do with Upwork.


Ahmet S wrote:

It need to change.
I earned around 2k in 2 month and 400$ paid as fee and there is ton of other people paying this much fee.
So it is ok for me to express my opinion about upwork. I'm pretty sure most of freelancer are having same problems.
I'm not asking too change fees I'm just asking to upwork change it way handles connections. Before they were free, so there wasn't this problem.  Now they cost money and most of them get wasted because of these problem I mentioned.

Also about other platfrom.
I'm already started to spend time on other platforms. 
The way things is going, upwork won't last long since there is better options out there without fees thish much high.


I think that the only freelancers that are having the issue with paid connects are the ones who are relying only on upwork for their source of income. Upwork can close tomorrow and they should have a backup plan. If UW is not your only source of income - it's not an issue to pay a few bucks every now and then if you see a really interesting project. 

agree if u dont like here go somewhere else.However the question which plaform in the world provides you Time and material projects.All are fixed size or contents type competitors.


Chirag S wrote:

agree if u dont like here go somewhere else.However the question which plaform in the world provides you Time and material projects.All are fixed size or contents type competitors.


there are plenty of others - freelancer, pph, fiverr, to name a few - but all of them have the same issue - each job posting gets dozens of proposals within  minutes - and  projects are rarely awarded.
UW had the biggest allotment of free connects, though - you could apply for 30 projects per month.  

lysis10
Community Member

oh yay another "I'm new and I want Upwork to change everything to fit my limited view so I can win all the jobs!"

kbadeau
Community Member

It looks to me like you are doing really well so far, and if you keep doing well you will get both repeat clients and invitations which don't use connects. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

 


Kelly B wrote:

It looks to me like you are doing really well so far, and if you keep doing well you will get both repeat clients and invitations which don't use connects. I wouldn't sweat it too much.

 

 


Thank you.
But I wish they change algorithm. So we don't end up wasting our connections. 
They could even charge more per connection but they should first fix the way it was now.

I just apply job spesificly require Adobe InDesign and I see a lot of job offer that have +50 proposal and client is idle for long time (15+ Days)
That mean upwork get 45$+ without doing anything at all  and freelencer end up spending more money on connections.


Ahmet S wrote:

Thank you.
But I wish they change algorithm. So we don't end up wasting our connections. 
They could even charge more per connection but they should first fix the way it was now.

I just apply job spesificly require Adobe InDesign and I see a lot of job offer that have +50 proposal and client is idle for long time (15+ Days)
That mean upwork get 45$+ without doing anything at all  and freelencer end up spending more money on connections.


$45 without doing anything at all ... do you think Upwork doesn't pay anything to run this site, to pay it's employees, it's IT people, it's CSRs? Do you think everyone who works for Upwork works for free?

 

Experienced freelancers who have worked in the brick and mortar world understand that we have business expenses. Anything you have to "spend" to get work is not, never has been, and never will be "wasted". It's called "the cost of doing business". This statement more than anything is what many of us are tired of hearing. 

 

Go ahead, leave online work and try to find clients locally for work - without spending a dime. I did it for many years - but I had to spend money ... on gas to meet clients, on business cards to have at the ready, on meeting clients in restaurants to pitch myself. I spent money on expensive inks for my printer because I had to show clients actual printed examples. Not all local clients I connected with gave me their work - do you think I asked them to pay me for the gas and time I used in hopes of getting a job? Of course not.

 

Many who responded are not necessarily happy with everything Upwork does, but we also understand that it's not our decision how this company runs their business. I hate some of the programs that have been introduced recently ... but is all that going to make me leave Upwork in hopes I'll connect with as many clients in the real world as I do here?

florydev
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:

oh yay another "I'm new and I want Upwork to change everything to fit my limited view so I can win all the jobs!"


bases.png

 


Jennifer M wrote:

oh yay another "I'm new and I want Upwork to change everything to fit my limited view so I can win all the jobs!"


**Edited for Community Guidelines**Just read what I write.
I'm just saying my opinon and is not limited. 

omnimiratus
Community Member

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Secondly, I agree with SOME of the things you've mentioned. I agree that a majority of clients don't even know how long their projects will take, and letting that determine the number of connects to be spent is a bit weird. I also agree that the return of the waste connects (e.g. when a client simply won't hire someone for a long period, or won't even check the website) should be facilitated, especially now that each connect is actually equal to money. The other the things you mentioned (like the service fee% being high) are things that you can pretty much do nothing about, as that's the price you pay for the value you get. Don't forget that Upwork isn't a charity -- it's a business.

 

And then, even though you're right about some of the things mentioned, YOU are in control. For example, you don't have to apply to jobs with a budget set at 5$. You just don't have to. Or don't apply to any job if you simply believe that it's not worth the number of connects you'll spend. The platform isn't forcing you into doing anything in a specific way, so it's a bit unfair to complain this way.

 

So, yes, you have some fair points, and yes, Upwork should facilitate more. But I think this is not the right way to raise issues. Not this language.


Ozan S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Nah, we want you to win. We just define winning differently than you do. You all seem to define it as "proving that Upwork sucks," whereas we define it as "making many thousands of dollars per month on our own schedules from the locations of our choice."

 

I think many of us just can't get our minds around the fact that so many people would rather prove all of their problems are Upwork's fault than solve them.


Tiffany S wrote:

Ozan S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Nah, we want you to win. We just define winning differently than you do. You all seem to define it as "proving that Upwork sucks," whereas we define it as "making many thousands of dollars per month on our own schedules from the locations of our choice."

 

I think many of us just can't get our minds around the fact that so many people would rather prove all of their problems are Upwork's fault than solve them.


 

You're proving my point well Tiffany, thanks. Thanks for pointing out that there's actually a "we" versus "them" mentality here, and thanks for including me in the latter group, too. And while you went as far as claiming that we lot have been claiming that Upwork sucks, "I" can personally tell you that I have never involved myself in such talks, and have always solely pointed out the (albeit unintentional) unfairnesses I've observed in the system, like the fact that higher chance of winning a proposal war being skewed towards existing users with established profiles, regardless they're better than others or not. This is NOT saying that Upwork sucks -- this is calling Upwork to action, so that maybe they would do something to balance things out. This applies to pretty much every other issue I've raised myself or kudoed till today.

 

See, "making many thousands of dollars per month" and all other things you mentioned are not things that everyone here gets to have. I can assure you though, it's not because these people are any lesser, but because they're just "not there yet". This platform is just, but it's not equal to everyone, simply because luck and a thousand other things play a big role. Some people may not understand this because they're in need of money and losing patience, and they may then (unfairly) say "Upwork sucks". Of course, this is not nice, and of course, they're not right. But if you were true "community gurus" (lol), you lot would rather explain this to them instead of saying "you should **Edited for Community Guidelines** or find a different platform". I don't see that sentiment here. I don't see even minuscule of it honestly.

 

And I wonder -- if you can't wrap your mind around people and their problems, why even comment? There are dozens of responses here and all they do is to make the OP angry. They don't help. Not even one bit.


Ozan S wrote:

Tiffany S wrote:

Ozan S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Nah, we want you to win. We just define winning differently than you do. You all seem to define it as "proving that Upwork sucks," whereas we define it as "making many thousands of dollars per month on our own schedules from the locations of our choice."

 

I think many of us just can't get our minds around the fact that so many people would rather prove all of their problems are Upwork's fault than solve them.


 

You're proving my point well Tiffany, thanks. Thanks for pointing out that there's actually a "we" versus "them" mentality here,

The "we" v "them" mentality in this discussion was introduced by YOU clustering regular posters as combative and unwilling to let whichever group you were addressing "win." But, you knew that.

 

and thanks for including me in the latter group, too. And while you went as far as claiming that we lot have been claiming that Upwork sucks, "I" can personally tell you that I have never involved myself in such talks, and have always solely pointed out the (albeit unintentional) unfairnesses I've observed in the system, like the fact that higher chance of winning a proposal war being skewed towards existing users with established profiles, regardless they're better than others or not. This is NOT saying that Upwork sucks -- this is calling Upwork to action, so that maybe they would do something to balance things out. This applies to pretty much every other issue I've raised myself or kudoed till today.

 

You involved yourself in this one when you created the us/them categories and aligned yourself with one group.

 

See, "making many thousands of dollars per month" and all other things you mentioned are not things that everyone here gets to have. I can assure you though, it's not because these people are any lesser, but because they're just "not there yet".

 

Right. Which, for the four billionth time, IS EXACTLY WHY EXPERIENCE AND SUCCESSFUL FREELANCERS GET SO FRUSTRATED WHEN PEOPLE WHO COULD BE BUILDING SUCCESSFUL BUSINESSES INSTEAD GET MIRED IN POINTLESS FINGER POINTING.

 

This platform is just, but it's not equal to everyone, simply because luck and a thousand other things play a big role. Some people may not understand this because they're in need of money and losing patience, and they may then (unfairly) say "Upwork sucks". Of course, this is not nice, and of course, they're not right. But if you were true "community gurus" (lol), you lot would rather explain this to them instead of saying "you should STFU or find a different platform". I don't see that sentiment here. I don't see even minuscule of it honestly.

 

I take no responsibility for the fact that the **Edited for Community Guidelines** forum platform Upwork uses deems one a guru after a certain number of posts.

 

That said, I've never told anyone to shut up, or anything close to it. If you consider refuting points or making counterpoints or telling someone that there's a more productive way to look at things equivalent to telling them to **Edited for Community Guidelines**, that sounds like a personal issue.

 

And I wonder -- if you can't wrap your mind around people and their problems, why even comment? There are dozens of responses here and all they do is to make the OP angry. They don't help. Not even one bit.

 

If I couldn't wrap my mind around their problems, I wouldn't bother to answer and try so hard and so repeatedly to get them focused on the things I know for a fact would help them make more money instead of the thing I know for a fact never will. I've been freelancing for 30 years, and I've spent countless hours mentoring freelancers online and off. For every delicate flower who has to run and hide behind a moderator's skirts because I'm a big old meany head, there's a grown up who truly wants to improve his or her business, listens, and has greater success because of it. No way to tell in advance who will be worth offering advice to and who just wanted to be patted on the head and told that nothing was his or her fault.


 


Ozan S wrote:

Tiffany S wrote:

Ozan S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Nah, we want you to win. We just define winning differently than you do. You all seem to define it as "proving that Upwork sucks," whereas we define it as "making many thousands of dollars per month on our own schedules from the locations of our choice."

 

I think many of us just can't get our minds around the fact that so many people would rather prove all of their problems are Upwork's fault than solve them.


 

You're proving my point well Tiffany, thanks. Thanks for pointing out that there's actually a "we" versus "them" mentality here, and thanks for including me in the latter group, too. And while you went as far as claiming that we lot have been claiming that Upwork sucks, "I" can personally tell you that I have never involved myself in such talks, and have always solely pointed out the (albeit unintentional) unfairnesses I've observed in the system, like the fact that higher chance of winning a proposal war being skewed towards existing users with established profiles, regardless they're better than others or not. This is NOT saying that Upwork sucks -- this is calling Upwork to action, so that maybe they would do something to balance things out. This applies to pretty much every other issue I've raised myself or kudoed till today.

 

See, "making many thousands of dollars per month" and all other things you mentioned are not things that everyone here gets to have. I can assure you though, it's not because these people are any lesser, but because they're just "not there yet". This platform is just, but it's not equal to everyone, simply because luck and a thousand other things play a big role. Some people may not understand this because they're in need of money and losing patience, and they may then (unfairly) say "Upwork sucks". Of course, this is not nice, and of course, they're not right. But if you were true "community gurus" (lol), you lot would rather explain this to them instead of saying "you should STFU or find a different platform". I don't see that sentiment here. I don't see even minuscule of it honestly.

 

And I wonder -- if you can't wrap your mind around people and their problems, why even comment? There are dozens of responses here and all they do is to make the OP angry. They don't help. Not even one bit.


We all started out as new users with new profiles. I have only been here since 2016, but I worked in the brick and mortar world for 20+ years before that. I had to take jobs at significantly lower rates and sometimes even jobs not in my field to get a good JSS and gradually increase my rate. The trick is hard work and figuring out how to work *within* the system. I think my first gig paid 50 bucks and one of my best paying gigs at the time was hand writing letters, even though I'm a graphic designer, like the OP.

 

The fact is the OP has had what MOST freelancers just starting out here would consider GREAT success, and he himself appears on track to make thousands of dollars per month. And no, not everyone here gets to have that, but my advice to him remains: keep doing what you're doing, have patience, and choose projects to apply to very carefully. Once you start getting invitations and repeat clients, the connects system will no longer seem like such a huge problem.

 

(Also feel free to share your suggestion directly with UW, because I don't think the best way to effect change in their business model is by posting in the forums.)


Ozan S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Secondly, I agree with SOME of the things you've mentioned. I agree that a majority of clients don't even know how long their projects will take, and letting that determine the number of connects to be spent is a bit weird. I also agree that the return of the waste connects (e.g. when a client simply won't hire someone for a long period, or won't even check the website) should be facilitated, especially now that each connect is actually equal to money. The other the things you mentioned (like the service fee% being high) are things that you can pretty much do nothing about, as that's the price you pay for the value you get. Don't forget that Upwork isn't a charity -- it's a business.

 

And then, even though you're right about some of the things mentioned, YOU are in control. For example, you don't have to apply to jobs with a budget set at 5$. You just don't have to. Or don't apply to any job if you simply believe that it's not worth the number of connects you'll spend. The platform isn't forcing you into doing anything in a specific way, so it's a bit unfair to complain this way.

 

So, yes, you have some fair points, and yes, Upwork should facilitate more. But I think this is not the right way to raise issues. Not this language.


Thank you.
I normally I don't become this much disrespectful to other people but most of comment here isn't suggesting anything. They just say you either like it or leave it, you don't criticize the system.



Ahmet S wrote:


Thank you.
I normally I don't become this much disrespectful to other people but most of comment here isn't suggesting anything. They just say you either like it or leave it, you don't criticize the system.


Ahmet - you got it wrong. 
It's not about not criticizing the system - it's about the fact that we can criticize as much as we want - someone else is setting the rules here - not us. So - whether we like it or not - paying for connects is not going to change anytime soon. And UW obviously wants to save money - not spend it (just try to find out where did live chat support go...) - so hiring new people to filter job postings or make new algorithm is hardly going to happen. when it comes to changes - on this platform you'll only see "cosmetic changes" - like putting crazy emojis on our profile pages, forcing us to make specialized profiles and (brand new) putting "popular projects" section on our profile pages. I doubt that those will help us get more work here - but apparently UW people thought they should give something in return after introducing paying for connects.  


Sanja D wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:


Thank you.
I normally I don't become this much disrespectful to other people but most of comment here isn't suggesting anything. They just say you either like it or leave it, you don't criticize the system.


Ahmet - you got it wrong. 
It's not about not criticizing the system - it's about the fact that we can criticize as much as we want - someone else is setting the rules here - not us. So - whether we like it or not - paying for connects is not going to change anytime soon. And UW obviously wants to save money - not spend it (just try to find out where did live chat support go...) - so hiring new people to filter job postings or make new algorithm is hardly going to happen. when it comes to changes - on this platform you'll only see "cosmetic changes" - like putting crazy emojis on our profile pages, forcing us to make specialized profiles and (brand new) putting "popular projects" section on our profile pages. I doubt that those will help us get more work here - but apparently UW people thought they should give something in return after introducing paying for connects.  



I'm not against paying for connections. They even can make them more expensive so people don't apply all the jobs out there.

I'm just suggesting they need to change the way they handle we spent them. It just simple algorithm that can be added right away. 

Just give back our connection if client is not active x time or job closed or job take x amount of time.

Once they fixed this problem they can even make each connection cost 5$.  


Ahmet S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Secondly, I agree with SOME of the things you've mentioned. I agree that a majority of clients don't even know how long their projects will take, and letting that determine the number of connects to be spent is a bit weird. I also agree that the return of the waste connects (e.g. when a client simply won't hire someone for a long period, or won't even check the website) should be facilitated, especially now that each connect is actually equal to money. The other the things you mentioned (like the service fee% being high) are things that you can pretty much do nothing about, as that's the price you pay for the value you get. Don't forget that Upwork isn't a charity -- it's a business.

 

And then, even though you're right about some of the things mentioned, YOU are in control. For example, you don't have to apply to jobs with a budget set at 5$. You just don't have to. Or don't apply to any job if you simply believe that it's not worth the number of connects you'll spend. The platform isn't forcing you into doing anything in a specific way, so it's a bit unfair to complain this way.

 

So, yes, you have some fair points, and yes, Upwork should facilitate more. But I think this is not the right way to raise issues. Not this language.


Thank you.
I normally I don't become this much disrespectful to other people but most of comment here isn't suggesting anything. They just say you either like it or leave it, you don't criticize the system.



 

You lose the debate the second you start using foul language. They know it and they use it against you, that's why they push you to the edge. Hard. Don't give them that. I personally use the community mainly to view answers from Upwork employees, to see the company's stance on matters. I advise you the same. Unless you get an official response, you can ignore the rest of the comments, especially the ones from certain personas. You can recognize them from their profile pictures lol, they're everywhere.

 

Good luck, and don't worry much about things. Hopefully things will get better over time 😉


Ahmet S wrote:

Thank you.
But I wish they change algorithm. So we don't end up wasting our connections
They could even charge more per connection but they should first fix the way it was now.

I just apply job spesificly require Adobe InDesign and I see a lot of job offer that have +50 proposal and client is idle for long time (15+ Days)
That mean upwork get 45$+ without doing anything at all  and freelencer end up spending more money on connections.


You have just explained why Upwork are not interested in changing the algorithm. Why would they change something that is giving them money, and at the same time weeding out freelancers who don't like it or can't pay the cost? They are killing two birds with one stone! It's great for them! Maybe you don't know but the platform is overcrowded and they need to make profit. So the consequences you mentioned are intended.

 


Ozan S wrote:

**Edited for Community Guidelines**


Experienced freelancers who have been here for years not only know how the system works, they also understand that Upwork is not a charitable organization, and they know Upwork is not here to please freelancers. They have been here in the forum helping people, reading complains and also complaining themselves about many things that are fixable and have not been fixed for years. What is the solution? Stop swimming against the tide. Don't work yourself up. Learn from successful people and do your best to make the system work for you, that's it. This is a business, we are just users, they create the rules and as users we accept them. Does this sound like a "It's their way or the highway." Yeah, it does. Is it nice? Of course not, but they decide what is convenient for their business, not the users.


Sergio S wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:

Thank you.
But I wish they change algorithm. So we don't end up wasting our connections
They could even charge more per connection but they should first fix the way it was now.

I just apply job spesificly require Adobe InDesign and I see a lot of job offer that have +50 proposal and client is idle for long time (15+ Days)
That mean upwork get 45$+ without doing anything at all  and freelencer end up spending more money on connections.


You have just explained why Upwork are not interested in changing the algorithm. Why would they change something that is giving them money, and at the same time weeding out freelancers who don't like it or can't pay the cost? They are killing two birds with one stone! It's great for them! Maybe you don't know but the platform is overcrowded and they need to make profit. So the consequences you mentioned are intended.

Yes but in long term this will be more harmful to upwork and the freelancer community.

Also with my suggestion, upwork will win more money since they charge %20.
Just make connections more expensive and don't waste them on closed jobs or other thing I mentioned.
Its quality over quantity. 

Hi Everyone,

 

A few posts on this thread have been edited and removed for Community Guidelines. Please be mindful of our Community Guidelines when posting in the community and avoid being disrespectful to other members of the forum. Thank you.

~ Joanne
Upwork

Thanks Joanne. Just to be on the clear side, which rule in the community guidelines did my comment go against?
tlbp
Community Member


Ahmet S wrote:

Sergio S wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:

Thank you.
But I wish they change algorithm. So we don't end up wasting our connections
They could even charge more per connection but they should first fix the way it was now.

I just apply job spesificly require Adobe InDesign and I see a lot of job offer that have +50 proposal and client is idle for long time (15+ Days)
That mean upwork get 45$+ without doing anything at all  and freelencer end up spending more money on connections.


You have just explained why Upwork are not interested in changing the algorithm. Why would they change something that is giving them money, and at the same time weeding out freelancers who don't like it or can't pay the cost? They are killing two birds with one stone! It's great for them! Maybe you don't know but the platform is overcrowded and they need to make profit. So the consequences you mentioned are intended.

Yes but in long term this will be more harmful to upwork and the freelancer community.

Also with my suggestion, upwork will win more money since they charge %20.
Just make connections more expensive and don't waste them on closed jobs or other thing I mentioned.
Its quality over quantity. 


So, I have to ask, if you are such an expert in business operations that you know which changes to implement, how long they will take, and can guarantee that they will be profitable, why are you trying to find freelance gigs on Upwork? Are you an enterprise-level consultant? 

ahmetsamsa
Community Member


Tonya P wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:

Sergio S wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:

Thank you.
But I wish they change algorithm. So we don't end up wasting our connections
They could even charge more per connection but they should first fix the way it was now.

I just apply job spesificly require Adobe InDesign and I see a lot of job offer that have +50 proposal and client is idle for long time (15+ Days)
That mean upwork get 45$+ without doing anything at all  and freelencer end up spending more money on connections.


You have just explained why Upwork are not interested in changing the algorithm. Why would they change something that is giving them money, and at the same time weeding out freelancers who don't like it or can't pay the cost? They are killing two birds with one stone! It's great for them! Maybe you don't know but the platform is overcrowded and they need to make profit. So the consequences you mentioned are intended.

Yes but in long term this will be more harmful to upwork and the freelancer community.

Also with my suggestion, upwork will win more money since they charge %20.
Just make connections more expensive and don't waste them on closed jobs or other thing I mentioned.
Its quality over quantity. 


So, I have to ask, if you are such an expert in business operations that you know which changes to implement, how long they will take, and can guarantee that they will be profitable, why are you trying to find freelance gigs on Upwork? Are you an enterprise-level consultant? 


Who choose these people as  Community Guru?
**edited for Community Guidelines** Instead of suggestion something they just make problem bigger and bigger with each comment. 
I try to find freelancer gig on all platforms and I express my feeling about system on all platform but other don't have toxic community guru member like this.

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