Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

Upwork need to change way things works.

Active Member
Ahmet S Member Since: Jun 1, 2019
1 of 56

Hi, I'm kind of new to upwork and I started to don't like the way things work.
I'm applying for job spesific to my skills.


These are thing I don't like;

  • Client that open jobs and doesn't revivew any proposal at all or doesn't show up at all. (Mostly these kind of job require 4+ connections. So they are wasted.)
  • Client that know job is going to take less than 1-2 days but choose 1-6 month. This kind of job require 6 connections. Upwork need give back thoose connection if job take less than 1 week.
  • Client that open design job as low as 5$. ( I know you can propose more than 5$ but it show avarage price rate is 5$. So chances of getting job is really slim when you propose high price. It doesn't even worth to spend 2+ connection on it.)
  • Client that closed job without hiring anyone. Those connection are wasted too.
  • %20 fee is too high. Atleast don't make us wait 2-3 weeks to get money we earned.  I have to wait atleast 10 days before I could withdraw money I earned from any jobs. This time should be less for design related jobs.  I will understand if we have to wait 2-3 weeks for jobs that need to be verified or tested by clients even after they  verified payment.( For exp. website, script, software) But design job doesn't require any verification .Once client is happy with design that's it. 
    We shouldn't have to wait to get that money. 

 

Community Guru
Mark F Member Since: Jul 10, 2018
2 of 56

Yeah...no

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
3 of 56

Nearly everything you mention here would be extremely labor-intensive to implement and much of it would require human judgment, meaning that it would be very, very expensive for Upwork to implement--especially since the customer service staff would have to be dramatically increased to field all of the questions and complaints about judgments people didn't like.

 

If you don't like paying 20% on the first little bit of a client relationship, I'm sure you would dislike it even more if Upwork had to radically increase fees to hire the army of employees you are proposing.

Active Member
Ahmet S Member Since: Jun 1, 2019
4 of 56

Tiffany S wrote:

Nearly everything you mention here would be extremely labor-intensive to implement and much of it would require human judgment, meaning that it would be very, very expensive for Upwork to implement--especially since the customer service staff would have to be dramatically increased to field all of the questions and complaints about judgments people didn't like.

 

If you don't like paying 20% on the first little bit of a client relationship, I'm sure you would dislike it even more if Upwork had to radically increase fees to hire the army of employees you are proposing.


Its not hard to add if variable to algrotihm
check if job take less than 1 week  refund extra connections
check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections
add option for client to bypass payment verification progress so we don't have to wait 2-3 weeks before we are able to withdraw the money.
Most of thing I mentioned doesn't require any human judgment, it can be done automatically. No need human interaction at all just a couple of code lines.



Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
5 of 56

Ahmet S wrote:

Its not hard to add if variable to algrotihm
check if job take less than 1 week  refund extra connections

 

And how would the algorithm know whether the job actually wasn't a large one or the freelancer did a bad job and got replaced, or the freelancer or client had to discontinue the project for funding or health or one of a million other reasons, or they made a change in the agreement and closed the contract to start a new project...or, on the flipside, whether the work was completed in a week but, like a great many projects on Upwork, the contract wasn't closed for months?


check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections

 

And thus close a lot of active jobs where the client is monitoring email notifications of submissions and hasn't gone back to the posting because he hasn't yet seen anyone he wants to hire.


add option for client to bypass payment verification progress so we don't have to wait 2-3 weeks before we are able to withdraw the money.

 

The delay is to protect Upwork, since the company is the one left holding the bag if the client doesn't pay. The client waiving that protection in no way helps Upwork when it turns out that the credit card is rejected or was stolen or something else goes wrong.


Most of thing I mentioned doesn't require any human judgment, it can be done automatically. No need human interaction at all just a couple of code lines.

Just a couple of code lines that will radically f*** everything up, because the realities are nowhere near as simple as you assume. The variations I mentioned above are a tiny fraction of the ways in which simple yes/no or timeline analysis will not yield reliable information.

 

As far as refunding connects....Upwork has spent a huge amount of time and effort over the past several months implementing various practices to try to limit the number of connects freelancers have and cut down the number of jobs freelancers bid on. Why would they want to undo all that work by letting the freelancers who choose worst when bidding on jobs recycle connects?


 

Active Member
Ahmet S Member Since: Jun 1, 2019
6 of 56

"And how would the algorithm know whether the job actually wasn't a large one or the freelancer did a bad job and got replaced, or the freelancer or client had to discontinue the project for funding or health or one of a million other reasons, or they made a change in the agreement and closed the contract to start a new project...or, on the flipside, whether the work was completed in a week but, like a great many projects on Upwork, the contract wasn't closed for months?"

 

Its not hard for algorithm to know how too handle progress. We are living in technology era. Everyting is being replaced by AI.  So this is basic job.

"

check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections

And thus close a lot of active jobs where the client is monitoring email notifications of submissions and hasn't gone back to the posting because he hasn't yet seen anyone he wants to hire."


I'm talking about client that doesn't show up at all. It show last acitve 15+ days and in job desciption tell job is urgent. Does it matter if she/he checking emails. 
Also its not possible to see whole content of each proposal from emails. 
So upwork earn around 50+ $ from jobs that aren't active at all.  It get this money from sumbitted proposals. 

 

Community Leader
Richard S Member Since: Mar 12, 2019
7 of 56

Ahmet S wrote:

"And how would the algorithm know whether the job actually wasn't a large one or the freelancer did a bad job and got replaced, or the freelancer or client had to discontinue the project for funding or health or one of a million other reasons, or they made a change in the agreement and closed the contract to start a new project...or, on the flipside, whether the work was completed in a week but, like a great many projects on Upwork, the contract wasn't closed for months?"

 

Its not hard for algorithm to know how too handle progress. We are living in technology era. Everyting is being replaced by AI.  So this is basic job.

 

Looks like you're doomed then, whatever UpWork decides to do and whatever platform you choose to use.
"

check if client doesn't show up  for x amount of time close job and refund connections

And thus close a lot of active jobs where the client is monitoring email notifications of submissions and hasn't gone back to the posting because he hasn't yet seen anyone he wants to hire."


I'm talking about client that doesn't show up at all. It show last acitve 15+ days and in job desciption tell job is urgent. Does it matter if she/he checking emails. 
Also its not possible to see whole content of each proposal from emails. 
So upwork earn around 50+ $ from jobs that aren't active at all.  It get this money from sumbitted proposals. 

 


 

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
8 of 56

Ahmet S wrote:

 

Its not hard for algorithm to know how too handle progress. We are living in technology era. Everyting is being replaced by AI.  So this is basic job.

 

Fascinating. So, will your algorithm be requiring me to enter information about what I'm doing into Upwork on a regular basis so it can track progress (creating unnecessary, unpaid work for me) or will it be intruding into my computer to measure how many pages I've written and whether or not my file has been accessed regularly? How will it know whether those pages are a rough draft representing a small percentage of the final project or a near-final draft representing 80%?

Community Guru
Michael S Member Since: Aug 29, 2017
9 of 56

Ahmet S wrote:
  • Client that open jobs and doesn't revivew any proposal at all or doesn't show up at all. (Mostly these kind of job require 4+ connections. So they are wasted.)

Clients may or may not be reviewing proposals, but there's no way for a freelancer to know this.

 


  • Client that know job is going to take less than 1-2 days but choose 1-6 month. This kind of job require 6 connections. Upwork need give back thoose connection if job take less than 1 week.

The client may know no such thing. They simply estimate how long they believe it will take, but that doesn't mean they have a realistic grasp of the actual timeframes involved. That's part of why they're hiring a freelancer to begin with. Also, connects aren't returned if a job takes less time than expected because the system doesn't retroactively change things. The algorithm is flawed, yes, but even if it perfectly estimated the number of connects, it wouldn't refund any just because someone was able to get a job done faster than the client estimated.

 


  • Client that open design job as low as 5$. ( I know you can propose more than 5$ but it show avarage price rate is 5$. So chances of getting job is really slim when you propose high price. It doesn't even worth to spend 2+ connection on it.)

Some clients do expect work that cheap. However, a great many simply use that as a placeholder because they have to put something in that field. They fully expect people to bid higher. As a freelancer, it's up to you to not only do your diligence to figure out if the client is worth your time, but also to bid what you are worth regardless of any placeholder budget. If you're actually worth what you're bidding and have a client willing to pay that, you'll be fine. But it's your responsibility to figure this out, since you're the one running a business. Upwork is just a platform for finding potential clients.

 


  • Client that closed job without hiring anyone. Those connection are wasted too.

Happens all the time. Even in the real world where no connects are involved, you still spend your time and effort to create a proposal, fill out an application, etc., even if a client never hires anyone. Things can and do happen. Clients may not find what they're looking for on Upwork, they may forget about the posting, they may end up not having time to do the project, or any number of other factors. Whether it's time, effort, connects, or anything else, as a freelancer, this is part of the cost of doing business.

 


  • %20 fee is too high. Atleast don't make us wait 2-3 weeks to get money we earned.  I have to wait atleast 10 days before I could withdraw money I earned from any jobs. This time should be less for design related jobs.  I will understand if we have to wait 2-3 weeks for jobs that need to be verified or tested by clients even after they  verified payment.( For exp. website, script, software) But design job doesn't require any verification .Once client is happy with design that's it. 
    We shouldn't have to wait to get that money. 

The 20% fee is only on the first $500 with each client. After that, it becomes 10%, until you've earned over $10,000 with that client, when it drops to 5%. Keep in mind that this is on a per client basis, not overall.

 

As for how long it takes to get your money, it's really no different than working in the real world. If you work an hourly job in the real world, you still have to wait until the pay period is actually over before the hours are tallied and a check is issued. If I go to work on Monday, I don't get paid then. I have to wait until the work week ends, and I'll get a check at the end of the following week. Same thing happens here.

 

For fixed price, it's the same as working on a Net14 basis or similar. They have that long to review the work you submitted before releasing payment, and Upwork isn't going to make different rules for different types of work. You submit the work, and from there, the client has a 14 day period to review said work. Even if it's something they can sign-off on right away, sometimes they're busy with other things and can't get to it right away. Other times, it's simply easier for them to let the 14 days expire and have the payment happen automatically if they don't need any changes. It's convenient for them, and still makes sure the freelancer gets paid.

 

Since you're new to Upwork, I highly suggest you take a look at https://www.upwork.com/hiring/education/getting-started-for-freelancers/ to get an overview of how the platform works.

 

Also, https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211063698-Weekly-Billing-Cycle will tell explain exactly how payments work.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not an Upwork staff member, nor do I represent them in any way.

Active Member
Ahmet S Member Since: Jun 1, 2019
10 of 56

Michael S wrote:

Ahmet S wrote:
  • Client that open jobs and doesn't revivew any proposal at all or doesn't show up at all. (Mostly these kind of job require 4+ connections. So they are wasted.)

Clients may or may not be reviewing proposals, but there's no way for a freelancer to know this.

 


  • Client that know job is going to take less than 1-2 days but choose 1-6 month. This kind of job require 6 connections. Upwork need give back thoose connection if job take less than 1 week.

The client may know no such thing. They simply estimate how long they believe it will take, but that doesn't mean they have a realistic grasp of the actual timeframes involved. That's part of why they're hiring a freelancer to begin with. Also, connects aren't returned if a job takes less time than expected because the system doesn't retroactively change things. The algorithm is flawed, yes, but even if it perfectly estimated the number of connects, it wouldn't refund any just because someone was able to get a job done faster than the client estimated.

 


  • Client that open design job as low as 5$. ( I know you can propose more than 5$ but it show avarage price rate is 5$. So chances of getting job is really slim when you propose high price. It doesn't even worth to spend 2+ connection on it.)

Some clients do expect work that cheap. However, a great many simply use that as a placeholder because they have to put something in that field. They fully expect people to bid higher. As a freelancer, it's up to you to not only do your diligence to figure out if the client is worth your time, but also to bid what you are worth regardless of any placeholder budget. If you're actually worth what you're bidding and have a client willing to pay that, you'll be fine. But it's your responsibility to figure this out, since you're the one running a business. Upwork is just a platform for finding potential clients.

 


  • Client that closed job without hiring anyone. Those connection are wasted too.

Happens all the time. Even in the real world where no connects are involved, you still spend your time and effort to create a proposal, fill out an application, etc., even if a client never hires anyone. Things can and do happen. Clients may not find what they're looking for on Upwork, they may forget about the posting, they may end up not having time to do the project, or any number of other factors. Whether it's time, effort, connects, or anything else, as a freelancer, this is part of the cost of doing business.

 


  • %20 fee is too high. Atleast don't make us wait 2-3 weeks to get money we earned.  I have to wait atleast 10 days before I could withdraw money I earned from any jobs. This time should be less for design related jobs.  I will understand if we have to wait 2-3 weeks for jobs that need to be verified or tested by clients even after they  verified payment.( For exp. website, script, software) But design job doesn't require any verification .Once client is happy with design that's it. 
    We shouldn't have to wait to get that money. 

The 20% fee is only on the first $500 with each client. After that, it becomes 10%, until you've earned over $10,000 with that client, when it drops to 5%. Keep in mind that this is on a per client basis, not overall.

 

As for how long it takes to get your money, it's really no different than working in the real world. If you work an hourly job in the real world, you still have to wait until the pay period is actually over before the hours are tallied and a check is issued. If I go to work on Monday, I don't get paid then. I have to wait until the work week ends, and I'll get a check at the end of the following week. Same thing happens here.

 

For fixed price, it's the same as working on a Net14 basis or similar. They have that long to review the work you submitted before releasing payment, and Upwork isn't going to make different rules for different types of work. You submit the work, and from there, the client has a 14 day period to review said work. Even if it's something they can sign-off on right away, sometimes they're busy with other things and can't get to it right away. Other times, it's simply easier for them to let the 14 days expire and have the payment happen automatically if they don't need any changes. It's convenient for them, and still makes sure the freelancer gets paid.

 

Since you're new to Upwork, I highly suggest you take a look at https://www.upwork.com/hiring/education/getting-started-for-freelancers/ to get an overview of how the platform works.

 

Also, https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211063698-Weekly-Billing-Cycle will tell explain exactly how payments work.

 

DISCLAIMER: I am not an Upwork staff member, nor do I represent them in any way.


Thank you.
Atlast someone does suggest an opinon other than saying bla bla. Go to other platforms.
Its not hard to esmiate for couple of small changesin design  are not going to take 1-6 month period,
or you don't need to 5 freelacner for this job.

There is too many job that I see have 50+ proposal and require 6 connections. Client didn't showed up 30+ days.
50*0,15*6= 45$ (Assuming there is no more than 50 proposal)
In my opinion this unfair  gain that is going to direclly upwork.  


TOP SOLUTION AUTHORS
TOP KUDOED MEMBERS