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Upwork rating algorithm punishes hard work, rewards scammers

Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
61 of 69

@Jennifer D wrote:

@Reinier B wrote:

@Jennifer D wrote:

@Kristo H wrote:

It is also good to recall what Financial Times wrote back two years ago:

 

"The chief executive of Upwork, an online work marketplace, once told me his company had a “classification algorithm” to predict which employment status lawyers might assign to any given worker."

 

This might be more remarkable notion to the matter than ever discussed here before.

 

 


 That has nothing to do with JSS.


 To which I would add this...what does it even mean? 


 Reinier, if you Google Kristo's quote, you'll find the article in question. In context, it was talking about the changing status of work and employment with the rise of freelancing and the gig economy, and how various groups (like, for example, Uber drivers) are fighting for recognition as employees and that kind of thing. So it's implying that Upwork recognises that there are scenarios in which freelancers working through Upwork might be considered employees under various employment laws. The article doesn't directly name this "chief executive", and doesn't directly quote him, so it's possible that the statement was taken out of context or something.


 Hi Jennifer,

 

I did Google the quote, and as you say, Kristo had taken the whole thing out of context, which is why I asked "what does it even mean", since his statement bore no relation to the topic under discussion. 

Community Leader
Valerio S Member Since: Oct 13, 2017
62 of 69

@Jennifer D wrote:


So, hypothetically, you think these three freelancers should have identical JSS?

 

Freelancer 1: 10 contracts, 10 clients gave them 5 star feedback

Freelancer 2: 20 contracts, 10 clients gave them 5 star feedback, 10 clients gave them no feedback

Freelancer 3: 100 contracts, 10 clients gave them 5 star feedback, 90 clients gave them no feedback.


Yes, I think so, as a freelancer I spend my time taking care of my contracts, my clients and the jobs they ask me to do, if a client doesn't want, or can't, to leave any feedback I do not see why this decision should impact my score, there is literally nothing I can do to control this situation.

 

To be completely honest i think the not leaving any feedback should impact the score of the client (or the freelancer if he decides to not leave any feedback aswell).

Community Guru
Jennifer D Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
63 of 69

@Valerio S wrote:

@Jennifer D wrote:


So, hypothetically, you think these three freelancers should have identical JSS?

 

Freelancer 1: 10 contracts, 10 clients gave them 5 star feedback

Freelancer 2: 20 contracts, 10 clients gave them 5 star feedback, 10 clients gave them no feedback

Freelancer 3: 100 contracts, 10 clients gave them 5 star feedback, 90 clients gave them no feedback.


Yes, I think so, as a freelancer I spend my time taking care of my contracts, my clients and the jobs they ask me to do, if a client doesn't want, or can't, to leave any feedback I do not see why this decision should impact my score, there is literally nothing I can do to control this situation.

 

To be completely honest i think the not leaving any feedback should impact the score of the client (or the freelancer if he decides to not leave any feedback aswell).


 If you can't see that it's pretty obvious that Freelancer 3 has a serious problem with client and contract management I don't know what else to tell you.

Community Leader
Valerio S Member Since: Oct 13, 2017
64 of 69
@Jennifer D wrote:


 If you can't see that it's pretty obvious that Freelancer 3 has a serious problem with client and contract management I don't know what else to tell you.


No I can't, as I said there is nothing a freelancer can do to make a client leave a feedback (other than keep asking with the result of being, and looking, unprofessional), he can influence the kind of feedback that is given to him but there is no way you can make a client leave one if he doesn't want to (or can't, some clients just don't have the time to do it).

I cannot understand why someone would choose to not leave any feedback, but most of all I cannot understand why this choice should negatively impact someone else, Upwork gives us the possibility to rate in a bad or in a good way, publicly and privately, if you decide to not take advantage of this possibility why should i pay the consequences of this choice?

Community Guru
Phyllis G Member Since: Sep 8, 2016
65 of 69

@Peter K wrote:

I've been writing via Upwork for five years (2000+ hours, 94 clients, 100% rating. It recentl;y dropped to 98%. I complained. Herre's the answer:"

“Of your contracts with feedback, you received good feedback 100% of the time.”

That indicates to me there are no poor outcomes. Upwork can’t possibly count the failure of clients to provide feedback as a negative factor. That's crazy!

 

Why on Earth would Upwork engage in the use of an algorithm that reported other than 100% good feedback? I’d like a detailed, official rationale in writing, so I can introduce the subject in Community Forum. The goal is to have the current method changed. Thanks, Peter Kelton

 

Yeah, I know they don't want to change. But if we all complain, what? 

 


If we all complain, we'll bore each other to distraction. That's all. Search this forum for threads about "JSS score" or "no client feedback" and see for yourself. 

 

The JSS is a tool for clients--an imperfect one, to be sure, but by most accounts I've seen, an improvement over the previous version. In any case, nobody cares whether or not freelancers like it or dislike it or understand it. We are expendable here. Those of us who can figure out how to thrive here and find it worth our while, are welcome to earn money here. Those who can't navigate the conditions or don't care to, are not missed. That's just the way Upwork works.

 

 

Ace Contributor
Peter K Member Since: Feb 26, 2012
66 of 69

Peter Kelton suggests Upwork review how its algorithm use is explained so that there’s some consistency in what free-lancers are told. If Upwork’s own people can’t give a consistently cohesive view of the agency’s own tools, then we not-so-humble writers are likely to continue in our ignorance. For now, in the winter of our discontent, we suggest its up to Upwork to peacefully clean up its act. And for the rest of us complainers, be quiet, lie low, and await a responsible result. -- PK

Community Guru
Charles K Member Since: Mar 6, 2017
67 of 69

@Peter K wrote:

Yeah, I know they don't want to change. But if we all complain, what? 

 


Many innocent electrons die needless deaths?

 

Please, think of the electrons.

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
68 of 69

@Charles K wrote:

@Peter K wrote:

Yeah, I know they don't want to change. But if we all complain, what? 

 


Many innocent electrons die needless deaths?

 

Please, think of the electrons.


 Indeed.

 

Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
69 of 69

@Charles K wrote:

@Peter K wrote:

Yeah, I know they don't want to change. But if we all complain, what? 

 


Many innocent electrons die needless deaths?

 

Please, think of the electrons.


 Electrons can never die. They can only be broken up into progressively smaller particles. Ask Steven Hawking, who once said that eventually, all the electrons recombine and pop back into existence as electrons, which is how, and why the Universe expands. 

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