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Upwork refunded three hours because of client's issues with bank

filip_knezevic
Community Guru
Filip K Member Since: May 22, 2017
1 of 18

Hello,

 

I would like to know what to do in this case.

I did a short job for a client. I was using manual time to log three hours, as before for the same client. Last time, I had no issues in payment for 10 manual hours.

Now it seems his bank has some issues with Upwork. I never got notification that the contract was suspended.

The situation is now ongoing for around 15 days. It's really not a lot of money, but it's still a money that I earned.

The client asked me, and Upwork support as well, if he can pay me privately if he can't solve the problem with Upwork.

So my question is what to do here? I'm OK with waiting more for the situation to be resolved. But what if it doesn't?

Shall I be free to take the payment outside of Upwork if this prolongs and he cannot make a payment through Upwork or it will still be a violation of ToS?

I can live without those three hours, but I wouldn't object if I can get the cash somehow.

Smiley Happy




I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
filip_knezevic
Community Guru
Filip K Member Since: May 22, 2017
2 of 18

bump!




I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
sjbercot
Community Guru
Sarah B Member Since: Dec 15, 2017
3 of 18

If you used manual hours, then they don't qualify for payment protection so you're kind of out of luck when a problem comes up with the customer's payment. Try to use the Time Tracker with meaningful memos when possible to avoid this. I don't recommend getting paid by the client outside Upwork as that's a serious ToS violation.

egaruth
Moderator
Nikola S Moderator Member Since: Jul 2, 2020
BEST ANSWER
4 of 18

Hi Filip,

 

Please note that manual time is not covered by the Upwork Payment Protection Program for Hourly contract. Additionally, you may want to follow up with your client and ask them to process a bonus payment for the time you spent working on their project.

 

Please note that offering and accepting payments outside Upwork is a violation of Upwork TOS and carries a penalty for all parties involved. It also means forfeiting the payment protection Upwork Protection Programs provide.

 

~ Nikola

Untitled

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filip_knezevic
Community Guru
Filip K Member Since: May 22, 2017
5 of 18

Sure, obviiously that's why I made a thread public Smiley Happy

The thing is I like to use manual hours. At least third of all my logged hours are manual hours (that's a lot of hours and I didn't have issues like this). Luckily, its only three hours this time.

 

So, theoretically, if there is an unsolvable problem between the client and Upwork and even if Upwork confirms that, and the client has no means to pay via Upwork anymore, it's still a violation of ToS and the client is forbidden to pay me outside of Upwork?

 

End result - freelancer who is logging manual hours is screwed anyway. Smiley Happy

 




I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
tlbp
Community Guru
Tonya P Member Since: Nov 26, 2015
6 of 18

Filip K wrote:

Sure, obviiously that's why I made a thread public Smiley Happy

The thing is I like to use manual hours. At least third of all my logged hours are manual hours (that's a lot of hours and I didn't have issues like this). Luckily, its only three hours this time.

 

So, theoretically, if there is an unsolvable problem between the client and Upwork and even if Upwork confirms that, and the client has no means to pay via Upwork anymore, it's still a violation of ToS and the client is forbidden to pay me outside of Upwork?

 

End result - freelancer who is logging manual hours is screwed anyway. Smiley Happy

 


If you were to receive payment for the work, the Upwork forums would be the very last place you would want to mention it since it is a violation of the TOS. Upwork benefits in no way if your client pays you outside the platform. So, of course, Upwork's interest is in getting your client to fix whatever the problem is and pay up on platform.  

filip_knezevic
Community Guru
Filip K Member Since: May 22, 2017
7 of 18

receive payment for the work, the Upwork forums would be the very last place you would want to mention it since it is a violation of the TOS.

Oviosuly I know this and hence made the forum thread public. But yeah, thanks anyway. Smiley Happy

After all, maybe tomorrow a freelancer with less experience will immidiately accept offer from the client to be payed outside, right (which I obivously didn't)? 

Maybe only THIS post will help them not to be banned.

I believe in transparency. Shame if you do not.




I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
filip_knezevic
Community Guru
Filip K Member Since: May 22, 2017
8 of 18

Additionally, you may want to follow up with your client and ask them to process a bonus payment for the time you spent working on their project.

That is the plan Nikola, but the client says he can't do the bonus, as his UAE bank is not accepting Upwork transactions or whatever. He opened a support case, and Upwork support confirmed he did open a support case.




I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
prestonhunter
Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
9 of 18

re: "The thing is I like to use manual hours. At least third of all my logged hours are manual hours (that's a lot of hours and I didn't have issues like this)."

 

If you haven't had issues like this, that is a good thing.

 

It means that you have generally worked with honest clients who intend on paying you.

 

It sounds like you now have an even more complete understanding of how Payment Protection works.

 

I am like many Upwork freelancers... who appreciate the benefits of Upwork Payment Protection, and thus chose to use time-tracked hours almost exclusively. I still log some manual hours. But not many.

 

The question I have for you is this: Why are at least a third of your hours manually logged?
If you're working on the computer, and not doing something (like baking a cake) that the time-tracker isn't appropriate for... then you could simply use the time-tracker.

filip_knezevic
Community Guru
Filip K Member Since: May 22, 2017
10 of 18

Because if I work directly with the client (which often happens in my job), sometimes it's just easier to work with them without app flashing around. They know we spent 2 hours together, and I just put in 2 hours.

Also, when I have a long term contract, often they ask me to do minor changes on their equipment. If I work 5-10 min to open some ports on the firewall, I will put in 30 min of manual time. My clients know that and they don't object. And for small jobs, minimum charge is one hour, even if I worked 20 min. 

Well, yes, I'm assuming in start all clients are fair persons. This attitude costed me around 1000 dollars by now in manual hours Smiley Very Happy. This issue now is the second time I have issues with manual time, first time client (this one was not honest) tricked me for 10 hours of hard work.

But you are right, Preston, and I might be considering using app exlusively from now on. Smiley Happy  

But I still like to trust people. That's why I try to weed the bad clients out.




I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion.
I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhäuser Gate.
All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die.
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