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filip_knezevic
Community Member

Upwork refunded three hours because of client's issues with bank

Hello,

 

I would like to know what to do in this case.

I did a short job for a client. I was using manual time to log three hours, as before for the same client. Last time, I had no issues in payment for 10 manual hours.

Now it seems his bank has some issues with Upwork. I never got notification that the contract was suspended.

The situation is now ongoing for around 15 days. It's really not a lot of money, but it's still a money that I earned.

The client asked me, and Upwork support as well, if he can pay me privately if he can't solve the problem with Upwork.

So my question is what to do here? I'm OK with waiting more for the situation to be resolved. But what if it doesn't?

Shall I be free to take the payment outside of Upwork if this prolongs and he cannot make a payment through Upwork or it will still be a violation of ToS?

I can live without those three hours, but I wouldn't object if I can get the cash somehow.

🙂

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
NikolaS
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Filip,

 

Please note that manual time is not covered by the Upwork Payment Protection Program for Hourly contract. Additionally, you may want to follow up with your client and ask them to process a bonus payment for the time you spent working on their project.

 

Please note that offering and accepting payments outside Upwork is a violation of Upwork TOS and carries a penalty for all parties involved. It also means forfeiting the payment protection Upwork Protection Programs provide.

 

~ Nikola
Upwork

View solution in original post

17 REPLIES 17
filip_knezevic
Community Member

bump!

sjbercot
Community Member

If you used manual hours, then they don't qualify for payment protection so you're kind of out of luck when a problem comes up with the customer's payment. Try to use the Time Tracker with meaningful memos when possible to avoid this. I don't recommend getting paid by the client outside Upwork as that's a serious ToS violation.

NikolaS
Moderator
Moderator

Hi Filip,

 

Please note that manual time is not covered by the Upwork Payment Protection Program for Hourly contract. Additionally, you may want to follow up with your client and ask them to process a bonus payment for the time you spent working on their project.

 

Please note that offering and accepting payments outside Upwork is a violation of Upwork TOS and carries a penalty for all parties involved. It also means forfeiting the payment protection Upwork Protection Programs provide.

 

~ Nikola
Upwork

Sure, obviiously that's why I made a thread public 🙂

The thing is I like to use manual hours. At least third of all my logged hours are manual hours (that's a lot of hours and I didn't have issues like this). Luckily, its only three hours this time.

 

So, theoretically, if there is an unsolvable problem between the client and Upwork and even if Upwork confirms that, and the client has no means to pay via Upwork anymore, it's still a violation of ToS and the client is forbidden to pay me outside of Upwork?

 

End result - freelancer who is logging manual hours is screwed anyway. 🙂

 


Filip K wrote:

Sure, obviiously that's why I made a thread public 🙂

The thing is I like to use manual hours. At least third of all my logged hours are manual hours (that's a lot of hours and I didn't have issues like this). Luckily, its only three hours this time.

 

So, theoretically, if there is an unsolvable problem between the client and Upwork and even if Upwork confirms that, and the client has no means to pay via Upwork anymore, it's still a violation of ToS and the client is forbidden to pay me outside of Upwork?

 

End result - freelancer who is logging manual hours is screwed anyway. 🙂

 


If you were to receive payment for the work, the Upwork forums would be the very last place you would want to mention it since it is a violation of the TOS. Upwork benefits in no way if your client pays you outside the platform. So, of course, Upwork's interest is in getting your client to fix whatever the problem is and pay up on platform.  


receive payment for the work, the Upwork forums would be the very last place you would want to mention it since it is a violation of the TOS.

Oviosuly I know this and hence made the forum thread public. But yeah, thanks anyway. 🙂

After all, maybe tomorrow a freelancer with less experience will immidiately accept offer from the client to be payed outside, right (which I obivously didn't)? 

Maybe only THIS post will help them not to be banned.

I believe in transparency. Shame if you do not.


Additionally, you may want to follow up with your client and ask them to process a bonus payment for the time you spent working on their project.

That is the plan Nikola, but the client says he can't do the bonus, as his UAE bank is not accepting Upwork transactions or whatever. He opened a support case, and Upwork support confirmed he did open a support case.

re: "The thing is I like to use manual hours. At least third of all my logged hours are manual hours (that's a lot of hours and I didn't have issues like this)."

 

If you haven't had issues like this, that is a good thing.

 

It means that you have generally worked with honest clients who intend on paying you.

 

It sounds like you now have an even more complete understanding of how Payment Protection works.

 

I am like many Upwork freelancers... who appreciate the benefits of Upwork Payment Protection, and thus chose to use time-tracked hours almost exclusively. I still log some manual hours. But not many.

 

The question I have for you is this: Why are at least a third of your hours manually logged?
If you're working on the computer, and not doing something (like baking a cake) that the time-tracker isn't appropriate for... then you could simply use the time-tracker.

Because if I work directly with the client (which often happens in my job), sometimes it's just easier to work with them without app flashing around. They know we spent 2 hours together, and I just put in 2 hours.

Also, when I have a long term contract, often they ask me to do minor changes on their equipment. If I work 5-10 min to open some ports on the firewall, I will put in 30 min of manual time. My clients know that and they don't object. And for small jobs, minimum charge is one hour, even if I worked 20 min. 

Well, yes, I'm assuming in start all clients are fair persons. This attitude costed me around 1000 dollars by now in manual hours :D. This issue now is the second time I have issues with manual time, first time client (this one was not honest) tricked me for 10 hours of hard work.

But you are right, Preston, and I might be considering using app exlusively from now on. 🙂  

But I still like to trust people. That's why I try to weed the bad clients out.


Filip K wrote:

If I work 5-10 min to open some ports on the firewall, I will put in 30 min of manual time. My clients know that and they don't object. And for small jobs, minimum charge is one hour, even if I worked 20 min. 


You do what???

 


Filip K wrote:

This attitude costed me around 1000 dollars by now in manual hours :D.


**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Yeah, Petra you got it all right .

If my clients think I'm overcharging them, probably they would not work with me anymore? There are many other freelancers they can choose from, but theye chose to stick with me. Probably because I'm fair and I do good work.

Some freelancers are charging even availability. If the client wants a freelancer to be readily available in case of technical issues (as you migh be working with other client at that time), they will charge them XX number of hours per week, even if they didn't lift a finger that week.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Anyway, thanks for your valuable insights.

Hi All,

 

A few posts have been edited from this thread for Community Guidelines. We encourage our Community members to be professional and respectful to one another when posting here. Please, be mindful of the Community Guidelines and avoid making personal attacks.

 

Thank you,

~ Nikola
Upwork

All is clear here, I used manual time, and if the client doesn't resolve their payment issues, I will not get that cash. No problem with that.

This unproductive thread can be closed 🙂

Client fixed the issue and I got paid.

Yeey.


Filip K wrote:

Client fixed the issue and I got paid.


Brilliant outcome!

For sure. 🙂 Me like.

Use Tracker dude. I didn't want to do it either until a large payment failed from manual hours. You'll sleep so much better I tell ya knowing some of those commission fees might actually go back into your own pocket. That's what you pay them for.

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