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02fba6ef
Community Member

Upwork should refund connects for jobs that expired but didn't hire!

Upwork should refund connects for jobs that expired but didn't hire! This would make the Upwork approach more balanced between clients and freelancers as the system is now a bit less favorable to freelancers and more favorable to clients.

95 REPLIES 95

Sorry, but during 11 years I knew very well how to establish a contract, I worked with real professional clients all over the world, I'm a professional, I always received excellent feedbacks. And I didn't change. So, don't assume that the problem in getting jobs is because of unqualified freelancers. Of course, there are unqualified freelancers, as in the last 11 years were. But, I never saw in Upwork such an amount of unqualified clients, scammers, cheap jobs and lack of good jobs (at least in my field). 

It should be great if Upwork could avoid and filter unqualified clients and unqualified freelancers. Then Upwork should return to be a good place to work.

But, unfortunately, Upwork Team is not doing it. 

 

I think it depends on the field of work. In graphic design field, I see no difference at all. There are still many jobs with 50+ proposals floating around. I understand why Upwork do this, but I see it do more harm to me personally as my expense is soaring to spend more on connects, while the competition remains the same. 

2f829a1c
Community Member

I am with you on this. Their new feature for not rewarding connects have reduced the number of fake jobs but yes there are still clients out there who don't hire anyone. I have seen clients who post the same job 4 times on 4 different dates and still can't find someone after getting at least 100 proposals.

It's not just about bad proposals, they can easily find some expert to invite to their job post. To be honest, I just think those clients are ignorant or simply don't care about what it costs the freelancers.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

Time is money, and if it takes several hours to dig through pages and pages and pages of freelancers and sent out invitations and then wait sometimes two or three days to see whether they respond (after already having wasted time going through a bunch of garbage proposals), it would simply be a bad business move to continue the labor-intensive and unpromising effort here--especially when many clients will have posted in a few places at the same time and may have gotten some good responses elsewhere without having to dig through the landslide of crap.

Nope, I spoke like someone who knows what he will be getting himself into on a platform like upwork.

The client knows its going to be a lot of garbage but he willingly used Upwork.

And if he couldn't find the perfect freelancer by proposals or invitations then he shouldn't post at all. Because those are the only 2 ways he could have find a good fit. It's time to stop posting the job.

 

It is simply a matter of wasting his and freelancers' time. 


Muhammad Furqan A wrote:

The client knows its going to be a lot of garbage but he willingly used Upwork. 


I don't think clients know that "it's going to be a lot of garbage" and they shouldn't have to accept that, or feel obliged to waste their time wading through loads of crappy proposals.

 


Muhammad Furqan A wrote:

And if he couldn't find the perfect freelancer by proposals or invitations then he shouldn't post at all. Because those are the only 2 ways he could have find a good fit. 


No, there are plenty of other ways - ask somebody for a referral, search Linked In or Google, go through an agency (a real one, not an Upwork agency), or use one of the many other freelancing websites. 

 


Muhammad Furqan A wrote:

 

It is simply a matter of wasting his and freelancers' time. 


If someone feels like they're wasting their time here, they'll leave. In the case of freelancers, it doesn't matter - if unsuccessful people give up and go away, that's a good thing - but nobody wants there to be fewer clients.

Ok, first, thanks a lot for going through the work that it takes to quote the right sentences.

Second, I am talking about established clients, not new ones. And yes they shouldn't accept crappy proposals but that is how Upwork works. That is all.

Third, I was talking only about posting on upwork not about all the options in the world.

Fourth, I don't want clients to go leave the platform but I don't want them abusing this platform either.

One of the other things not mentioned is some posted jobs already have a freelancer to fill the role.

I have had several clients that have follow up repeat business towards the end of a contract.  Many times they'll approach me with their next project and ask if I would like to start a new contract once the current project is finished.  Personally, I prefer this.  Its a good way to compartmentalize the scope of work for specific projects rather than having months of different jobs and change requests in a single contract.

Those jobs show up on the job board as well, even though the client has no intention of making a new hire for it.  The only difference is that the job will wind up under contract rather than being closed out.

This 👏 spoken to many clients that know they have to deal with crap. Upwork NEEDS quality control. And the responses being extremely one sided against freelancers is how platforms like this die.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that clients post here expecting a flood of garbage proposals from unqualified freelancers. 

 

I'm also unsure why you'd want to work with clients who have all the time in the world to waste on garbage proposals and choose to frequent a site where they anticipate that most of the freelancers are entirely unqualified.

How many jobs have you posted? How much time have you spent reading client comments? I'm not a client, but I take their feedback seriously.

 

No, clients can't easily find great freelancers. I know I would not have the mental fortitude to wade through 50+ garbage, illiterate proposals searching for one that is qualified.

Hey Jeanne,

That is literally what upwork is. You post a job, you get proposals and you choose the best ones.

If the clients don't have theental fortitude then they should simply not post a job. Or they can just go and hire an expert with amazing reviews and success score.

Like seriously if a client doesn't understand that garbage is going to be a part of the process then why is he even on upwork?????

So you believe it should be part of the client experience to get bad proposals? I disagree. Clients should only get great proposals from professionals. How can we make that happen?

I really hope things were that ideal but it is what it is. We can't do anything about that. Only upwork can work on that.


Muhammad Furqan A wrote:

I really hope things were that ideal but it is what it is. We can't do anything about that. Only upwork can work on that.


Honestly, I believe this is part of the problem with Upwork.  They are trying too hard to control the irrationlity of clients and freelancers, much to their own chagrin.  Just look at the bidding of connects - many of the better freelancers are simply refusing to bid and only submit the original amount of connects.  Its the more experienced, top-rated, and frequently hired freelancers that are presumed to have more connects than the new never-been-hired or single jobbers.  Micromanagement never works the way it is intended to.

Yes...and one way to work on that is to absolutely positively definitely never reward bad freelancers who write crappy proposals with returned connects that enable them to waste the time of even more clients. 


Martina P wrote:

So you believe it should be part of the client experience to get bad proposals? I disagree. Clients should only get great proposals from professionals. How can we make that happen?



It would be awesome if anything on the world would be like an utopia: Everything works well, all persons are honest, good and lovely, all products is good, all services is done well, all women is beautifull, and all professionals is very skilled and do the their work without any failure. Yes it would be amazing if the world would be like that, but isn´t. Deal with it.

This is the reality: In reality, things brokes, persons may be corrupt, they may hate, they may have bad behavior. In reality some products will do bad to your health, or won´t work for its purpose. In reality not all services is usefull. In reality not all women are beautifull and lovely. And also not all professionals are skilled and do the client´s job. Clients must deal with this fact. They will receive proposals that is great and proposals that is trash. They must be realistic, wise and knows how to filter good proposals and trash proposals, this is part of their hiring process.

There is nothing that you or anybody can do about it. Accept the reality and deal with it.

Of course, there are things that can be done to get rid of the plethora of garbage proposals that are still flooding many categories. If the freelancer is not skilled, they shouldn't be pretending on an online job platform. Clients don't have to deal with anything. If they are not happy, they will take their money and go away, never to return. If you tell clients, "Hey, get ready for trash because that's the way it goes, deal with it.", how many clients would be left? Just the scammers.

I don't have to deal with it, I'm not a client. 

Upwork could deal with it by not approving each and every freelancer and having a meaningful entrance exam. 

 

What a strange and artificially helpless world view. There are, of course, a great many things Upwork can do to discourage a flood of garbage proposals. One of them is making it more expensive to send a proposal.

And make funding mandatory to post a job so we don't waste our time
proposing for for fake jobs.


Why do you want to drive away clients? What other platforms make the client pay before they post a job?

debi-f
Community Member

If you wanted to be helpful with the freelancer (is obvious that you don't), you can suggest to make expensive posting a job. So, we don't have to see clients asking to work for 5 dollars, or scammers trying to cheat freelancers... etc. 

 

Suggest something good for the freelancer, please!  Try to be empathetic once! Thanks! 

How will it help freelancers if there are fewer clients here? You already have the ability to filter out clients with low budgets, clients with unverified payment methods and clients with a low hiring rate. Use your filters and let the rest of us bid on projects for new clients if that's what we want to do. 

A mandatory amount will drive away clients.


Tiffany S wrote:

What a strange and artificially helpless world view. There are, of course, a great many things Upwork can do to discourage a flood of garbage proposals. One of them is making it more expensive to send a proposal.



"Strange and artificialy helpless world view" ?!! Lol! On what world do you live? This world isn´t Smurf´s vilage, isn´t cute hello kitty world, isn´t the enchanted kingdom of cuteness, isn´t the utopia! We are on earth yet, not on heaven.

The reality on earth is this: Goodness and evil exists on earth. Deal with it. As evil exists, I must avoid evil things and don´t let it reach my life. Deal with it.

Not everything will works very well. I would like to search on my job feed and just find suitable jobs that pays very wells to me. Yes, it would be amazing! But isn´t! At least some of the jobs listed will be trash, will be offering $5 for high effort works, and I must deal with it. It exists, thats it. I must filter jobs that I would work, and jobs that I wouldn´t work for. Same thing for clients: it would be amazing if they just receive great proposals from high skilled freelancers! But isn´t! At least some of the proposals will be trash, will be from unskileed freelancers, will be from scammers, and they must deal with it, they must filter their proposals.

It is your point of view that is useless. If you demands that everything must be perfect and works very well, you will just get highest frustrations in your life. You must realize that nothing on earth is perfect. Humans isn´t perfects and they can´t do anything with perfection. If you teachs others to just expects perfection from everything, you are doing bad to the peoples and will turn the most unhappy peoples on the world.

If you want something good, learn how to filter the bad things from your life. But never expects that just good things trys to reach you. The trash things, and even evil things will trys too. Protects yourself, filter it, avoid it.

Humankind wouldn´t be alive if living like you, just demanding that the world be the enchant kingdon of cuteness and perfection. The world isn´t and won´t be like you would like to be.

"It is your point of view that is useless."

 

Tiffany did not say anything about uselessness. That statement is how you perceive her response. You seem to perceive as negative anything that doesn't fit your agenda.

 

"f you demands that everything must be perfect and works very well, you will just get highest frustrations in your life. You must realize that nothing on earth is perfect. Humans isn´t perfects and they can´t do anything with perfection. If you teachs others to just expects perfection from everything, you are doing bad to the peoples and will turn the most unhappy peoples on the world."

 

I'm not sure what this has to do with Upwork and garbage proposals.

 

"If you want something good, learn how to filter the bad things from your life. But never expects that just good things trys to reach you. The trash things, and even evil things will trys too. Protects yourself, filter it, avoid it."

 

Clients do not have a way to filter garbage proposals.

"Humankind wouldn´t be alive if living like you, just demanding that the world be the enchant kingdon of cuteness and perfection. The world isn´t and won´t be like you would like to be."

 

I have no idea how this relates to Upwork not being responsible for the flood of unskilled freelancers. Recognizing that changes can be made to improve the platform is not asking for an enchanted kingdom. 

 

You do have a negative view of reality. Most of the problems in life have potential resolutions. Upwork can most certainly take steps to improve the platform by not allowing anything that can put up a picture of their cat to be a freelancer. Quality freelancers attract good clients. Garbage freelancers annoy clients with garbage proposals and demanding or begging for a job.

 

Upwork has the capability to return to vetting freelancers and refusing to allow garbage profiles. All quality freelancers would benefit if the unskilled were tossed out, as they used to be. It's no fantasy; stop allowing anything to throw up a profile and call themselves a freelancer.


Tiffany S wrote:

. One of them is making it more expensive to send a proposal.


More expensive to send a proposal? Lol!!!!

With this boosted feature, a lot of freelancers and agencies is just paying high ammounts on one single proposal and trash proposals is still there, even boosted proposals may be trash sometimes. 

As I said, not everything will works very well, deal with it.

Clients should get great proposals and freelancer should get their connects back if a job is not a job, it is a spam or test or something else. 

Martina, great, then give top rated and top rated plus the freedom to apply to any jobs with no connects involved.

That will only encourage more proposals. Even top-rated freelancers spam clients and apply for jobs they are not qualified to do. The platform needs fewer proposals, not more.

Jeanne,  How do you know top rated freelancers spam clients ??? That souds really strange to me. 

There are freelancers who game the system with friends/family jobs, etc. that manage to receive a 100% JSS. When you are mixed in the search engines with 67% JSS, it makes you wonder if the JSS means anything. So, yes, I am quite certain there are those who are top-rated clogging the system with proposals. The clients are complaining of being spammed with every job by agencies who use bots to spam every single job. Read through the client forum, and you will find angry clients who won't deal with the mess. Additionally, I have clients who have discussed the spam proposals.

What has the one thing got to do with the other?

Why should top-rated and top-rated plus not have to use connects?

Martina, Top rated plus and top rated searching for jobs are the perfect match for clients wanting a freelancer. How can you not see it? Even upwork knows this, they use to send invites to apply for jobs. 
If a Top rated run out of connects and money they can not work?? How is this OK with you?

Yes, if all freelancers run out of money and can't send proposals, then that would be a bad thing and Upwork would have to make connects cheaper, or free. But that isn't happening, is it? Every project in my category is getting 20-50 bids, and making connects free would mean that clients get buried in even more proposals.

 

Clients don't want garbage. Clients like great proposals and freelancers. If clients receive garbage proposals, they will leave. The clients are on Upwork to quickly find a reasonably priced freelancer who will do the job and not require any support.

🤔 this just doesn't seem to aligning with my experience. I wish it did. I think we are in different areas of Upwork.


Muhammad Furqan A wrote:

Hey Jeanne,

That is literally what upwork is. You post a job, you get proposals and you choose the best ones.

If the clients don't have theental fortitude then they should simply not post a job. Or they can just go and hire an expert with amazing reviews and success score.

Like seriously if a client doesn't understand that garbage is going to be a part of the process then why is he even on upwork?????


But in whose world?  Yours or theirs?

People are irrational.  Adapt and overcome or get left behind.


Muhammad Furqan A wrote:

Hey Jeanne,

That is literally what upwork is. You post a job, you get proposals and you choose the best ones.

If the clients don't have theental fortitude then they should simply not post a job. Or they can just go and hire an expert with amazing reviews and success score.

Like seriously if a client doesn't understand that garbage is going to be a part of the process then why is he even on upwork?????


Give a moment's thought to what you're suggesting here--that clients who want to deal with qualified freelancers should look for them somewhere else. Is that really what you want?

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