🐈
» Forums » Freelancers » Re: Upwork wants me to pay them money
Page options
katie_zimpel
Community Member

Upwork wants me to pay them money

 A payment made to my account has been reversed by my client’s bank. So now Upwork is asking me to pay that money back or to contact my client.  They've also block my ability to withdraw funds until I pay the money back. 

 

Why should I contact my client if there's a problem with HIS billing method? Isn't that Upwork's jobs? Why am I paying all these fees to Upwork to verfify and secure payment if they're not going to verify and secure payment? 

 

I shouldn't be punished and have my hard earned money taken away because Upwork is not doing it's job. This is disgusting. I'm a Top Rated designer and have paid thousands in fees to Upwork. 

49 REPLIES 49
wlyonsatl
Community Member

Was this an hourly project, Katie?

Yes


Katie A wrote:

Yes


Did you track your hours with the Upwork tracker, has meaningful memos and reasonable activity levels?

In that case you should be protected.

Hmmm.

 

I do hourly projects almost exclusively and rarely have a problem with a client's payment, but when there is a problem with the client's payment Upwork usually stands behind its payment protection program.

 

However, there was one case where Upwork clawed back a small portion of the total payments made to me by such a client that Upwork said didn't qualify for protection due to some of my memos not being sufficient in some way. No real explanation was provided to me, so I never knew where the exact error was.

 

In all other cases where there has been a problem with an hourly client's payment method, Upwork has paid me in full for my hours booked.

 

If Upwork's payment protection doesn't apply to a client's fraudulent use of a credit card, that's news to me. I see no proviso in Upwork's documentation to that effect and I've never see an example in my own Upwork projects.

 

But if Upwork wants money from you, they will take it without any detailed discussion or clarification. That's just life in Upwork world.

 

Good luck!

 

 

petra_r
Community Member


Katie A wrote:

 

Why should I contact my client if there's a problem with HIS billing method?  


This isn't a client having a problem with his billing method, this is a chargeback. That means the rightful owner of the credit card had their back charge back the funds, which immediately removed them from Upwork's account.

 

You have some degree of protection if it was an hourly contract, as Will hinted at. If it was a fixed price contract, and the chargeback can't be defended, you have no protection.  (Edited as saw it's an hourly contract)

This is what is stated in part of the email:

 

"We are sorry to have to take this step, but this matter is a result of an issue with your client’s billing method. Please contact your client for more information."

 

You should also  know that they are only asking for money back for one billing week. Not the other billing weeks.  So just a portion of the job.  Seems like a mistake to me. One they should be handling with the client, no? 


Katie A wrote:

You should also  know that they are only asking for money back for one billing week. Not the other billing weeks.  So just a portion of the job.  Seems like a mistake to me. 


Was your time tracked with the tracker, with meaningful work memos and good activity levels? 

 

If you think the client made a mistake, why don't you ask them why they filed a chargeback? Upwork will have been trying to handle it with the client. But as the bank took the money from them, they will take it from you UNLESS the time worked is protected, in which case they would eat the loss. 

Of course I asked the client about this.  My issue is that I pay Upwork to handle the billing and payment process.  I pay them to verify and secure the client's funds. Clients can just call their bank and stop payments and freelancers have to pay the money back a month later? Is that how this works?  And then Upwork asks me to resolve this with the client.  And putting a hold on my ability withdraw all funds.  Why don't they cancel the client's account until they can prove they'll actually pay people? But no. Punish the freelancer. 

 

 


Katie A wrote:

Of course I asked the client about this. 


What is the client saying?

 


Katie A wrote:

Of course I asked the client about this.  My issue is that I pay Upwork to handle the billing and payment process.  I pay them to verify and secure the client's funds.


They did. The client paid.

 


Katie A wrote:

Clients can just call their bank and stop payments and freelancers have to pay the money back a month later?. 


Yes. It's called a chargeback.

 


Katie A wrote:

Why don't they cancel the client's account until they can prove they'll actually pay people? But no. Punish the freelancer. 


They already suspended the client's account because a chargebck is a violation of the terms of service.

They are not "punishing" you, they just want their money back. 

 

Had you tracked your time correctly, they wouldn't take their money back from you. (And yes, it is their money, as you withdrew it and the bank took it from Upwork)

If the client's account was suspended then how am I suppose to contact this client? As Upwork asked me to do to resolve this matter?


Katie A wrote:

If the client's account was suspended then how am I suppose to contact this client? As Upwork asked me to do to resolve this matter?


You said earlier that you did contact the client about it. What did they say?

I just recieved a response from the client and he said Upwork made a error and he is working to resolve it. 


Katie A wrote:

I just recieved a response from the client and he said Upwork made a error and he is working to resolve it. 


Hopefully your client will tell their bank to stop the chargeback and repay Upwork the money they did chargeback. 

 

Then, if Upwork don't remove the hold on your financial account in a timely manner, feel free to post again so we can all shout loudly for you to get justice. 

 

As is, the client filed a chargeback and needs to fix it.

Withholding my ability to withdraw ALL funds for ALL jobs is punishment. What if I needed that money to pay rent next month or other bills this week? Honestly. It's gross. 


Katie A wrote:

Withholding my ability to withdraw ALL funds for ALL jobs is punishment. What if I needed that money to pay rent next month or other bills this week? Honestly. It's gross. 


Do you have any money coming in this week? When it goes to pending, the amount in the red will be deducted, so you would be officially "paying them back." 

I understand how the process works. I'm arguing that blocking my ability to withdraw funds is a punishment. On me. For something that's not my fault.  It's not a present or benefit is it? What if I needed that money today?

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

 

Katie, if only your funds have been blocked to the amount which you are dealing with that specific $%$# client then it seems ok, but if UW has blocked ALL your funds, this is really not healthy, and rather unprofessional and whatever their TOS or TOr or whatever are, they cannot block funds in excess of the original ones due from that client. I hope some moderator will come in and put something really "positive" instead of the TORS, which are all meant just for freelancers. client is set free to do whatever it likes.


Katie A wrote:

I understand how the process works. I'm arguing that blocking my ability to withdraw funds is a punishment. On me. For something that's not my fault.  It's not a present or benefit is it? What if I needed that money today?

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

 


Maybe some of the other community members are tired of FLs who come into the forum throwing hissy fits about UW processes that are driven by the ToS. And tired of FLs who accuse forum regulars of toeing the party line any time they point out that whatever has transpired seems consistent with the ToS.

 

In any case, I agree with others that it sounds like this may have been an error. Annoying, no argument there, but sometimes mistakes do happen. Meanwhile, it sounds as if you actually don't need the money to pay rent or buy food this week, so maybe do yourself a favor and take a deep breath. If you think about it, it makes sense that UW would freeze your whole account -- if they have determined you need to repay that money, then it needs to come out of what you're earning from other clients because the money you earned from that client has already been charged back, right?

 

Meanwhile, you keep raging about being told to contact your client about this, but also said that you did contact the client. Withouth knowing the outcome of that conversation, nobody else can reasonably speculate about what happened or what needs to happen next. Obviously, you're not obliged to share that with us but since you put the situation out in the public forum, you shouldn't be surprised that people respond.

What's wrong with discussion on changing the TOS?  Why not advocate FOR the freelancer instead of against them?  


Katie A wrote:

What's wrong with discussion on changing the TOS?  Why not advocate FOR the freelancer instead of against them?  


There's nothing wrong with such a discussion, any more than there's anything wrong with discussing amendments to the US constitution. There may be something unrealistic, if not wrong, about expecting immediate agreement, or not expecting alternative readings of the situation.

Sharing information about how the platform works, and how that is dependent on how banking and credit work, is not advocating. It's sharing information. And if you have not seen the many strenuous criticisms of and arguments against Upwork policies the forum regulars here have offered over the years, you're not paying attention.

If you're tired of all the people throwing "hissy fits" then why come on here?  To feel superior about your knowledge of the TOS or to actually help freelancer's in their business?  Because a lot of you are not helping.  


Katie A wrote:

If you're tired of all the people throwing "hissy fits" then why come on here?  To feel superior about your knowledge of the TOS or to actually help freelancer's in their business?  Because a lot of you are not helping.  


I both offer and receive help here. I never feel superior about my knowledge of the ToS, only about my ability -- which sometimes takes a bit of resolve -- to stay calm and learn. Happily, not "all the people" throw hissy fits. Many come with questions about how to handle situations that are vexing, puzzling, dismaying, disappointing, surprising and/or infuriating them. The ones who genuinely want insight and support always find it. The ones who are actually seeking validation of their own viewpoint and are not interested in other perspectives that may shed light, often wind up fussing at and about forum regulars who are simply offering dispassionate information and advice.

 

LOL.

 

 

Katie - Stop me if I am wrong, but I don't believe you have answered the questions about the job you are incensed about. It was an hourly job, right? So, did you use the time tracker and did you make sure to enter memos about the work you were doing? If yes - you have Upwork protection. It sounds as though you had a problem with tracking and that might be why you are having problems now. 

No one will every know what you LOL'd, Katie.

 

Please come back to the board when this is all resolved so we can understand how this happened and what you think can be done to avoid such a situation.

I LOLed because Will L made the most delightful and professional and positive knock knock joke. 

But, Katie, you still haven't said anything about the tracking you did for the job you are having a problem with.


Joan S wrote:

But, Katie, you still haven't said anything about the tracking you did for the job you are having a problem with.


Joan, the OP did stipulate at some point in this thread that the client responded and said it was a mistake and was working with Upwork to address it. 

Then, Amanda, why did Vladimir post Upwork payment protections?


Joan S wrote:

Then, Amanda, why did Vladimir post Upwork payment protections?


I don't know, but you raise a good point that payment protection should have been in place for an hourly project (if I'm reading you right). I would be curious to know as well if the time was tracked with proper memos or not, but I don't think we will be privvy to that information. It's hard to know what really occurred here, and it would be nice to know if it's really a matter of Upwork failing or if it's a matter of not using time tracker appropriately (the chargeback aside, which is another issue). 

Amanda - My understanding is that Upwork protects freelancers for hourly projects when they use tracking together with memos and appropriate activity levels. If a client does a chargeback, Upwork will protect the freelancer and eat the charge. That does not happen if the tracking is not used according to Upwork's guidelines. The fact that Katie has not answered the tracking questions makes me think that is the problem. Sometimes it is just easier to blame Upwork.


Joan S wrote:

Then, Amanda, why did Vladimir post Upwork payment protections?


Moderators frequently post general information about Upwork policies and procedures to cover all bases, even as they (sometimes) give more specific responses. It is not always possible to accurately infer a subtext.

 

I'm inclined to think the OP has said all she wishes to say about the matter.


Joan S wrote:

But, Katie, you still haven't said anything about the tracking you did for the job you are having a problem with.



She didn't answer the beeping question. She very likely won't, so maybe just move on folks.

An update: Client got a scammer that was using somebody elses profile.  The scammer billed the client and recieved a bunch of money. Upwork didn't do anything so client called the bank to request a chargeback.

 

Upwork decided to suspend the accounts from all of his freelancers and demand money back from them or give them proof that work was done.  So they could give that evidence to the bank. 

 

Client has been trying to reach out to Upwork, but has been stonewalled. I've also had trouble getting legitimate responses besides, "Pay us the money back. We'll then try to work with the bank if you give us evidence. But no promises."

 

Seems unfair since I wasn't the scammer, but Upwork is wrapping me in with this anyways. 

Upwork would not limit your account if the client only charged back the sum paid to another freelancer.
At least, as far as I know.

ETA: And btw, nobody is stonewalling anybody. Dispute departments (internal and external) are deliberately understaffed.

The time you will waste as a result of a chargeback is the number one reason it's advised against at all costs.

Between the initiation and resolution (whether that be a cancellation or not) of the chargeback, you can expect at least 60-90 days to elapse.


Katie A wrote:

An update: Client got a scammer that was using somebody elses profile.  The scammer billed the client and recieved a bunch of money. Upwork didn't do anything so client called the bank to request a chargeback.

 

Upwork decided to suspend the accounts from all of his freelancers and demand money back from them or give them proof that work was done.  So they could give that evidence to the bank. 

 

Client has been trying to reach out to Upwork, but has been stonewalled. I've also had trouble getting legitimate responses besides, "Pay us the money back. We'll then try to work with the bank if you give us evidence. But no promises."

 

Seems unfair since I wasn't the scammer, but Upwork is wrapping me in with this anyways. 


That's unfortunate. The problem is by issuing that chargeback, they violated TOS and now Upwork will automatically ban them. The way the weekly billing happens is that it's all one bill to the client. We don't get separate charges for each freelancer. So they likely had to chargeback a charge that included yours as well as other freelancers' payments.  This definitely becomes a challenge for Upwork to deal with because they are going to ban this client, and Upwork also has to fight the chargeback. So they have to place the hold on your account funds (even temporarily)  while they fight the chargeback. Remember, the chargeback is actually against you. So as much as you may like your client, they are the ones that chose to put you in this situation to deal with the scammer.   It is unfair, but Upwork is actually just requesting the information from you so they can fight the chargeback and give you your money. Remember? That's what you paid them to do? Really it's your client you should be upset with. They issued the chargeback on your payment and caused this whole mess. 


Katie wrote:

Seems unfair since I wasn't the scammer


It is indeed most unfair that the client asked the bank to chargeback the money from all the freelancers, rather than just go after the money from the one who allegedly scammed him.

 

 




I'm not sure if that's what exactly happened. Client said just the money from the scammer was requested back. But Upwork is trying to get evidence of work from the other freelancers to fight the bank on this scammer's charge. 

 

 

Also, what is being done about scammers stealing profiles and charging clients? 

Latest Articles
Featured Topics
Learning Paths