nullagarrido
Member

Upwork, you make me laugh

So for months and months (since stats were rolled-out) in my stats: Long-term clients: 20% Now, I finally get a contract, and the client hires me 3 times within a week, (although only 2 contracts as one was set up as a milestone) leaves 5 stars in both contracts and now (I just finished the second contract 2 hours ago): Long-term clients: 18% But everything else stays the same. I know there was something to do with long-term client being clients who work with you over a period of 4 months or something along those lines. But being hired twice by the same client should NOT make this score go down! Sigh...
21 REPLIES 21
kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Natalia,

 

Only clients that you work with and get paid by regularly for 90 days on any contracts would be counted as your long-term clients. So these recently closed contracts are not long-term and therefore the percentage went down.

 

For example, if you had 10 contracts total and 2 of them were long-term that would mean 20% of all your contracts were long-term. Now you have 12 contracts total and still 2 of them are long-term. Therefore the percentage of long-term contracts is lower now.

 

Still,  if these contracts were completed successfully, they will contribute positively to your Job Success score.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Hello,

 

Here we go again with JS percentage. Mine dropped from 99% to 94% to day for hidden reasons. My 4,97 star bearly changed from long time ago, since many contract ended with 5-star, nothing is changed but the JS.

 

I used to have 17 contracts in progress, and because of that, my JS dropped dramatically. I contacted Upwork and got answer like as I had someny open but inactive contract. OK, I then sent my Clients many messages asking for ending the contract. I got all 5-star feedback. In mean time, my other contracts ended with 5-star feedback.

 

So when I ended the contract, I lost long-term customers. The point went down, my JS went down again. So what Upwork wants is we must take money out of the clients' pockets as much as possible in continuously period. HOW COME? IT'S OUT OF FREELANCERS' CONTROL. I ended contract and some clients told me they would want the contracts open. So rather then we freelancers have to be punished, Upwork should work it better. I'm in the between, want to keep Clients but cannot make Upwork happy.

 

THAT JS IS SO FUNNY AND ANNOYING! I HAVE DECIDED NOT TO CARE ABOUT IT ANYMORE, IT MAKES ME SAD WHEN I SEE MY JS KEEP BEING SUBTRACTED FOR HIDDEN REASONS and then I must worry what to do to regain the point. No way, I don't have time for it. Just go ahead and write in my profile some explanations. Some clients paid me 3 months in a row, then stopped as no more work but maybe for future. I cannot take their money every month, can I?

 

I'm just so angry! I may have to end all the contracts I have immediately once one is done, then I don't have any long-term clients at all. What will happen to my profile?

 

Regards,

 

 

Well, I wrote a few sentence to explain about my JS in overview, It was saved but didn't appear in my profile and here is what Upwork "suggested":

 

"Highlight your strengths and let clients know why they should hire you. Read a good example and a bad example of an overview statement".

 

Well... So they know what I'm writing and posting!!!

@ Thi Nhung

 

Long-term contracts count positively to your account but is not a detractor. So having less long-term clients does not affect you negatively. I hope that is clear.

Basically long-term clients equals a +ve, no long term clients does not equal a -ve.

---- easy like Sunday morning ----
zoomconcepts
Member

Hey Valeria,

 

Has the team considered adding a metric for repeat business in the stats? Long term contracts are a good indicator of one's performance and the parameters currently set for a contract to count as long-term are pretty reasonable. However, getting repeat business is also an important mark - sometimes even more so because long-term contracts are often dependant on project duration, while repeat clients have had their project finalised and were so happy with the outcome that they went through the trouble of seeking you out and hiring you again. 

 

I think it's a neat indicator to have and it'll cover situations like the one Natalia described. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Bojana,

No, we don't expect to add a metric that is based strictly on getting rehired by a client. Instead, the benefit of this is accounted for by the Feedback and other ratings you would get for these  additional jobs. And, as mentioned by Valeria, if you get paid by the same client (even if it's on different jobs) for an extended period of time, you're going to get the additional benefit of having long-term clients as well. 

Bojana wrote

 

Has the team considered adding a metric for repeat business in the stats? Long term contracts are a good indicator of one's performance and the parameters currently set for a contract to count as long-term are pretty reasonable. However, getting repeat business is also an important mark - sometimes even more so because long-term contracts are often dependant on project duration, while repeat clients have had their project finalised and were so happy with the outcome that they went through the trouble of seeking you out and hiring you again. 

 

I think it's a neat indicator to have and it'll cover situations like the one Natalia described. 

 

 

Garnor wrote

 

"No, we don't expect to add a metric that is based strictly on getting rehired by a client. Instead, the benefit of this is accounted for by the Feedback and other ratings you would get for these  additional jobs."

 

 

@Garnor - Why not? Realistically speaking, part of the client satisfaction is returning clients, so why would Upwork want to ignore such metric? And how exactly will the benefit of this be accounted for by the Feedback and other ratings? In what way, how? Can you please explain? 

nullagarrido
Member

Right, OK it makes sense that my percentage of long-term clients went down then, although OBVIOUSLY TOTALLY UNFAIR... If that score goes down, will my overall score go down? So the stats are supposed to update twice a month, right? And the fact that mine updated just a couple of hours after ending my contracts? But nothing else was updated... So, some things update, some things don't... I mean, DOES ANYONE KNOW HOW STATS REALLY WORK? LIKE, REALLY? Did someone write and algorithm and then died with the secret? I mean, I want better answers than : "They update minimum twice a month" When do they update, and why then? Why do they not update immediately as COMMON SENSE would dictate? Why do they seem completely random, like being penalized if a client withdraws an invitation before I have had the chance to reply (THIS HAS HAPPENED TO ME and OTHERS, they have provided PROOF so please STOP DENYING IT!) Why is no-one FIXING mistakes like the fact that 9 out of 10 or less private feedback score left from clients impacts negatively on freelancers (This is DESTROYING people's careers) Why do you have time to make a new website etc, but not to address the REAL ISSUES? OMG just fix it will you!

Workup/oLance/eBook whatever - forget the name, listen to the anger. It's palpable. It's like painting the outside of a building where lots of abuses are going on inside and putting on nice new reception staff with burly security staff behind them.

 

"Did someone write and algorithm and then died with the secret?"

 

That's really what it feels like. The dark score - it's agreed that it's there, but no one knows what it is, or how it works.

Hi Stephen B,

I can understand the recognition of the palpable anger within the Upwork community - but if you want many more signs then go across to the Elance conference rooms where Elancers are palpably angry and very very worried about  being invited to join Upwork - with the strong possibility that the Elance site will eventually be closed.

 

I'm an Elancer and Upworker, I haven't duplicated my Elance profile over to Upwork yet. I made a heartfelt plea to the Elance/Odesk developers and CEO to keep Elance open indefinitely. I just hope that it is heard.

 

Do you know of any way to contact the CEO of Elance/Odesk via email?

 

Do you think the 'powers that be' in both Elance/Upwork actually read all these community forum comments? I sincerely hope they do and I sincerely hope they act on them.


@Chris M wrote:

....Elancers are palpably angry and very very worried about  being invited to join Upwork - with the strong possibility that the Elance site will eventually be closed.

 

...Do you think the 'powers that be' in both Elance/Upwork actually read all these community forum comments? I sincerely hope they do and I sincerely hope they act on them.


Shuttering Elance is a certainty, as disclosed by the CEO in a media interview.

 

Another certainty is that executive management does not read all these comments. The job of our community managers, as I understand it, involves judicious decisions about what forum content gets passed on where within Upwork. For example, Lena has more than once referred engineering to a forum thread when there are multiple descriptions of a common system problem. Presumably the community managers have channels, direct or further filtered, to executive management.

 

Best,

Michael

Looks like it's hard to hire a good website developer/programmer to do this job properly.

Well, at least there are freelancers on Upwork with these skills. Why not hire one of them?
Wait, have they just fled?

 

Ever seen the movie 'Jurassic Park?  The unpredictability of huge systems - Chaos Theory.
That's what is in work there, instead of a real algorithm - or so it seems. 


@Gabor K wrote:

....Well, at least there are freelancers on Upwork with these skills. Why not hire one of them?

 


About half Elance's engineers, if memory serves, are contract workers. I have no idea what the proportion is on Upwork (apart from Elance), although I suspect it's greater than zero.

 

Best,

Michael

Natalia,

 

So true. I also don't understand why they update the JS score but some other metrics it is apparently based on don't change.

 

After my JS score dropped a week ago I was finally told that it is due to one negative private feedback. Which should affect the "clients who recommend you" statistics. They were still at 100% then even though the JS dropped more than 10%.

 

I was told it would go down too - because one client really doesn't want to hire me again.

 

A week later it's still 100%?? This makes everything so confusing - updating different stats at different times, especially when they are (seemingly) interrelated. 

 

 

Update: More than one month later is still hasn't changed. Yet. Apparently it is only updated every 5 contracts... so now that my JS score is increasing with every update I am waiting for my "clients who recommend you"-statistic to finally drop...

"Did someone write and algorithm and then died with the secret?"

 

Spot on, Natalia! 

The treatment of a disease starts when the patient accepts that he/she is diagnosed with the disease but if the patient is not willing to accept that he/she is suffering from disease than there is no way you can start the treatment.

 

 Similarly, Upwork/Odesk is actually not ready to accept the fact that the JS algorihm is buggy,flawed and does not work the way it is suppose to work despite numerous valid concerns has been raised against this algorithm. Yesterday in the Town Hall Meeting I asked a question from Garnor that freelancers should be told all the variables how this JS is calculated because at the moment it is not working the way it is suppose to work. I got the same response which is usually given here on the forums that it is working the way it is suppose to work and I should check the help pages for information about the variables. I asked a follow up question stating that after ending 3 successful contracts where the clients told me that they are giving me full private feedback and gave me 5 star public feedback why my score went down by 5% and Garnor skipped this question intentionally where as every where on the forum he has been saying that this GREAT algorithm counts past 24 months of contracts with a focus on more recent work that has been done. If this is the case than my recent work should push my JS score higher as opposed to going down by 5%.

 

 I am convinced that this is actually a strategy by Upwork/oDesk team to keep denying and insulting freelancers by claiming that things are working the way they are suppose to work till freelancers stops complaining about them. 

Sadan

 

I am agree with you the algorithm only work when a client give a bad private feedback not when the client give a positive feedback as i undestand the algorithm only count bad things about the freelancers and the good thing will turn next year or two because it count past 24 months.

 

So when your these feedback will get older one or tow years  your JS will get increase by the highliy sensitive algorithm the"Robot"

 

 

What the what?

 

By the time one could get there for the JS score to move upwards (a few months required, it looks like that), his/her account will have been long time suspended (because going below 75% triggers a potential suspension). 

Repeating the same, "beginner-customer-service level" answers will not get anyone anywhere, but if it's done frequently, it could get people thinking something - namely, why is it so hard to get a straight answer? 

And this should not be this way at all. We pay more to oDesk (by our 10% work fee, let alone buying Connects, if needed) than one would pay for an itermediary firm, what deals with getting jobs. So, we deserve to be treated with a high level of integrity. 

This is slowly getting to a level of a bad joke. I have studied IT and programming and let me tell you, having such bugs in code would get you straight out of any freshman class, let alone letting it run a huge service like oDesk/Upwork is. Please, don't do this to your freelancers. For if you forget to put in the screws, how long will the engine run by itself?

 

 

dijatul
Member

 

I have 2 open jobs that I am working on it. They also love my works and they wants me again and again.

 

 

Between 31st may  to 14th june,I completed 3 successfull job with 5star and good review. I built a good relationship with these clients. They were too much satisfied my work. I think they will not gave me private bad score.

 

  • 31st may=====My JS 100%
  • 14th JUne====My JS 88%

 

Now,I am asking whats the exact reason that my JS score below 90%? I would like to know what is my fault, what did I wrong?

 

If I know whats the problem ,then how can I be able to change myself . 

 

Why Its happening with us?

 

Why you are not giving us a solution or answers? 

 

Please give us an answer that we can work properly. Its a very much frustrating news that day by day without notice,without any reason we are getting punishment.

 

We are too much upset.

 

We love Upwork. Upwork supposed to love us and take care of us.

 

 

~~!! my english is poor. please forgive me !!!~~~

No one can give you the exact reason what went wrong we can just guess it could be a bad private feedback which can effect  and result in drastic drop.it could be a bug may be as they are working on it.Before there were problem with My stats page now its ok but I see Nothing happend yet to my JS just the date has changed may be it will go up or down later as I dont trust this robot.it can make you zero from hero.

 

I think last time you had a problem with your client may be he complaints about you as its also a part of  our JS%.

 

I think Setu can help you with some manual calculations as I am weak in math.

Undoubtedly if you have not had problems with the other factors involved in the JS score calculation (disputes, missed deadlines etc); then negative private feedback is the culprit as Iftikhar indicated.

After the added information on JS score is released, if you still have grouses you cannot figure out, I will assist with as much as I know (or think I know :)).

---- easy like Sunday morning ----