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Stephen's avatar
Stephen P Community Member

Very Experienced Freelancer - But Can't Get a Job Here

Hello all, from the Southwest of Ireland

My issue is, I'm sure, a very familiar one here, but I wanted to share it anyway.

I've been freelancing (in one form or another) for nearly 40 years. I've made a good living through my writing, photography and video creations over the years. I've won awards for my work and my experience, in certain fields and with very high-end clients, is probably as good as it gets for many.

That previous paragraph is not by way of boasting. It's to emphasise my confusion surrounding my Upwork experience. I joined Upwork about 2 years ago, and found that I wasn't getting any work - so I left it alone.

I came back 2 weeks or so ago, revamped my profile and added lots of samples of work to my portfolio. I've made 18 proposals and spent over 200 connects so far, to no avail.

Only 1 potential client has messaged me. I responded extremely positively and offered some suggestions about the job - but they haven't come back to me, or responded to a follow up message I sent, saying 'shall we get to work' (or words to that effect).

Lots of the jobs have messages to the effect 'don't apply unless you've got 5* reviews or have earned $XXX'. That's something of a catch 22, and seems to ignore the fact that some freelancers (like me) may have getting getting 5* reviews and earning big bucks before we came here.

So, do you have any thoughts about what I can do to start getting hired here?

One thought I have, which I'm a bit reluctant to express - but I will - could the sticking point be my age?



25 REPLIES 25
Radia's avatar
Radia L Community Member


Stephen P wrote:

So, do you have any thoughts about what I can do to start getting hired here?

Some freelancers are also having a hard time getting hired these days. There are many discussions about "changes" in Upwork that might have caused it, and it has been confirmed by the mods that there's a "rotation" in place to ensure "everyone gets an equal chance".

 

Some new freelancers get two jobs in their first week, for example, so it's probably just not your turn yet.

 

But I'll advice to not spend too much, to not get caught in "their game" (I spent less than $10 on my 10 years+ here).

 

 

One thought I have, which I'm a bit reluctant to express - but I will - could the sticking point be my age?


No.

Stephen's avatar
Stephen P Community Member

Thank you for your reply. I'm a bit confused, though, about why 'a rotation' could 'ensure that everyone gets an equal chance'.

I was under the impression that jobs were obtained on merit, so that the best person for the job (in the client's view) got offered it. Is that not the case? 

I'm aware that it's possble to bid to be placed higher in terms of the order your proposal is viewed, but are you saying that not all proposals get seen by the client? If that's true, then I might stop sending in proposals.

Eleonora's avatar
Eleonora G Community Member

Stephen,

you've rejoined this platform in what is probably its "worst" moment. Seasoned UW freelancers are experiencing a general decrease of interaction with clients, with a consequent drop in hires. 

Radia well expressed some of the factors leading to the current situation. 
And I endorse his advice.

Do not waste your connects, think twice before applying, target your clients more than ever, be sure you are a great fit for that specific job, give value to your professionalism, cater only to clients who are willing to second that same level of professionalism.
When you do so, you'll recognise half of the connects you've spent until now, were better off in your pockets.

Lastly, aknowledge that, due to high volumes in proposals and the infamous "rotation", chances are your proposal, even though valuable, might not be viewed by the client. 


Stephen's avatar
Stephen P Community Member

Hi Eleonora

Thank you for your reply and your advice. I'm disappointed to learn about the rotation factor and no longer view Upwork as a meritocracy, but more of a game of roulette. 😞 

I'll certainly take your advice and try to be more frugal with my connects and more targeted with my client selection in the future. 

 

Stephen

Alper's avatar
Alper D Community Member

Hi Stephen! First and foremost, its not your age. Your profile is a bit distracted with a combination of many different skills. You are a video editor, a writer and a mental health expert . So in order to utilise your skills, i must be a client looking at your profile and thinking "How can i benefit from Stephen's unique career history". That requires me to focus on you. I don't want to focus on you, i want to focus on my needs as a client. Long story short, i'll suggest you to review job posts and try to understand which of these categories you can be a better match than others and focus your profile on that. 

 

Also persistence! Some people got their first job on 80th application. Some got it on 10th but it took another 50 to get the second one. Don't give up!

Stephen's avatar
Stephen P Community Member

Hi Alper and thanks for your reply. Yes, I totally agree that my profile has too much 'choice' for the client. But, the honest truth is that my photography / video experience ran alongside my mental health experience for 30 years (I did one on my days off from the other). I have extensive experience and qualifications in both fields and have taught both field, at universities for over 20 years each, etc, etc. 

I'm aware that I can sound like a 'jack of all trades - master of none', but that really isn't the case. So, should I drop one 'field' completely? If you and others think that's the way forward, I'll definitely consider it. But, it would be a pity - for me and the client.

Alper's avatar
Alper D Community Member

If you are good at all of these, you should be able to get hired for any of these right? Pick one to start with and try it for a few months and see where it leads? That would be my suggestion, there is definitely not a single way to success here, in the end you'll have to find your own way.

Radia's avatar
Radia L Community Member

This might not get you jobs quickly, but I think I can say, separating your profile into 'smaller' specialties might help. How the algo works is a secret, but one factor is probably to "match" the job post with the most "specialized" person.

 

Some clients might also view/manually prefer a specialist than a generalist. So you might want to create specialized profiles to 'catch' one of those specific jobs.

 

I also want to try this, although as I said above it might not quickly help because many freelancers are doing it already and they still have 'the problems'.

Anna's avatar
Anna T Community Member

Naaaa, we’re around the same age and I’ve never felt the age thing with clients.  

 

I do, however, feel it with recent decisions of Upwork and the few, albeit prolific, posters here in the forum that do not seem to understand that a shareholder primacy model is not at all conducive to the long term success of a corporation that is entirely dependent on human behavior-that is, their stakeholders. 

 

I guess you know the more things change the more they stay the same, and although Upwork is very different than they were a few years ago, they’re still the same—quite the client centric organization with the same low regard for their freelancers; except now it’s magnified.  That said, and assuming you’re fluent in reading scams, you’re going to need to open your wallet if you plan to boost and be patient while clients unaccountably abandon their job posts as you will not get your connects back.  Afterward, you’re going to need to understand that Upwork’s shareholder primacy model precludes the vast experience mentioned in your great profile.  This means that money, not experience, gets you to the top of the list of proposals.  If you don’t boost, your proposal is subject to a proprietary Upwork algorithm that determines your rank on the list of non-boosted proposals.  Please know that if the algorithm determines you unqualified, you’re pretty much shot because then you end up at the very bottom on the “Other” list nobody ever talks about, Ssshhhh!!

Stephen's avatar
Stephen P Community Member

Hi Anna

OMG did I post my age!! No wonder I'm not getting any work. 🙂 Anyway, I doubt you're the same age as me - unless that photo is faked.

I have to admit that I don't know what a 'shareholder primacy model' is, and nor do I believe that labels apply universally and in an omnipresent way (and trust me, I've written books full of jargonist labelling).

I'm just catching on to the notion that boosting is essential, and thank you for confirming this for me. So, bearing in mind other advice, above, about being selective, maybe I'll selectively boost for a while and see how it goes.
 

Anna's avatar
Anna T Community Member

Hi Stephen, 

A shareholder primacy model is one that places shareholder interests first, above all others.  The end result here is that we, the stakeholders, are subsidizing that and many of us are either unwilling or unable to tolerate it due to obvious exploitation concerns.

 

Anyhow, no, you did not actually post your age but I did gather it from your acedmic years.  For what it's worth, I removed mine when I found out that freelancer invoices contain our names and addresses.  I don't know why, it just made me feel better to do that.

Mykola's avatar
Mykola A Community Member

Anyone can't get jobs hele last times. Clients gone. Dont matter is you Top-rated or Newbie. Sorting is random. If you are very lucky and found real client (rare) then your proposal will be sorted to Others (see trash) and client will never saw it.

So continue to waste more and more money just for luck if you want job here.

Alper's avatar
Alper D Community Member

Can you tell me a bit more about "others"? didnt know such a thing exists

Mykola's avatar
Mykola A Community Member

Now client see 3 groups of proposals:

Boosted (highlited, old Best Match)

Mainstream (generic)

Others (hidden to spoiler)

It was 2 months ago, maybe still same. Current smart sorting can put your propo to Others if you won't boost. Client able to check that bucket or can ignore it at all. Real rules to trash your proposal to Other is unknown, Upwork won't share own secret sorting principals. Take a look forum, couple of topics about "Other" exists. I saw example how it look like from client there.

Eleonora's avatar
Eleonora G Community Member

What the heck. Never knew about this.

Clark's avatar
Clark S Community Member

Anna posted a message about it, and we had a lengthy discussion almost a month ago. You can view that thread here.

Eleonora's avatar
Eleonora G Community Member

Thanks, Clark. Let me take a sip of wine first 🤣

Jeanne's avatar
Jeanne H Community Member

You may want to make that a big swig.

Eleonora's avatar
Eleonora G Community Member

I'll go for a whole bottle.
And I'm only hafway page 1. 

Clark's avatar
Clark S Community Member

Make that two big swigs and it shouldn't be the cheap stuff!

 

(I don't drink, so I really don't know what I'm talking about!) 😂

Anna's avatar
Anna T Community Member

Thanks for posting that Clark.  Useless Update: That post is a merge of two posts I made on the same subject.  Between the two posts, a moderator was flagged six times and a PM sent once (maybe twice).  Still, no response. 

 

Edited: There was eventually a response by Avery.

Eleonora's avatar
Eleonora G Community Member

That response was precisely the turning point. From sip to bottle.

 

Seriously, thanks for sharing this.
And...wow.

Anna's avatar
Anna T Community Member

Bottems up!  😉

 

Stephen's avatar
Stephen P Community Member

*Bottoms (I've just added 'proof reader to my long list of skills). 😉