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itdevxvid
Community Member

Very strange and unbelievable JOB

I've just offered from USA client, the job is about dropshipping store development.

The client offered that I have to work 10~12 hrs in a day with 150$ / hr.

But he doesn't give me requirement document clearly.

He is a new client, created account on June.

Here are his speech on message inbox.

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**edited for Community Guidelines**

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Actually, I am not sure this job is realistic and I need upwork support team explain about this job.

is it real of scam...

37 REPLIES 37
m_sharman
Community Member

I have no idea what dropshipping is, but it certainly sounds like a scam to me!

abinadab-agbo
Community Member

I saw the job somehow (though I'm not a developer).
But, what is unbelievable about $100/hr?
I've charged more per hour before, so I dunno.
ETA: The job poster said 100/150/hr. I don't know what is unbelievable about that rate.

Its not the rate.. The text from his chat with the client was edited for community guidelines. Now his post doesn't make much sense.
aocumen
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Karsten, 


Here's more information about drop shipping, which I found online. If this job doesn't match your skills, and your experience, and if you think you will be unable to do this successfully, I would recommend that you decline the client's offer. It's always best to work on projects that matches your skills and experience so that you know you can come up with an excellent output. 

 

I would also like to add that if you feel that this job is inappropriate, you can send it to the team's queue by clicking on the "Flag as inappropriate" buton so that they can review it against the Terms of Service.


~ Avery
Upwork

Avery,
I was the one who didn't know what drop shipping is.

The OP was concerned the job was a scam and it certainly read that way to me.
aocumen
Community Manager
Community Manager

Thanks for the flag, Miriam!


~ Avery
Upwork


Avery O wrote:

I would also like to add that if you feel that this job is inappropriate, you can send it to the team's queue by clicking on the "Flag as inappropriate" buton so that they can review it against the Terms of Service.


And, he can share the message he received, via PM to you? The job posting itself is not suspect so I don't think a flag will help. Rather, it was the client message he receieved. Karsten was seeking guidance about whether something was fishy in what the client was requesting via message. Hope you can help him. 

I learnt what the content of the message is.

To paraphrase, 

The client in his message said ยซ Karsten would earn $2,000 per day building dropshipping stores; he should just make sure to track tome using the Upwork tracker. Also, he would have to share 50% of Karsten's earnings with Karsten and Karsten should make sure to "be loyal".ยป

 

Karsten, for the sake of Federal Law Enforcement, do not do that job. The job is a money laundering effort. Thanks.

 

aocumen
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Miriam, 


I have reviewed the messages exchanged between the OP and the Client, and at this time, I do not see enough evidence for the job post and the client to be actioned on. However, I have forwarded it to the team for their review. Looks like they have progressed, and if there is any action that will raise red flags as the project moves forward, Karsten can reach out at any time.


~ Avery
Upwork

Avery, looking over that link you provided earlier, there is a section on drop-shipping scams (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drop_shipping#Scams), which this sounds suspiciously like.

 

The fact that they made the offer to someone in a foreign country who is relatively new to Upwork, the work has nothing to do with that person's listed skillset, and promises nearly half a million dollars per year for essentially unskilled labor, all points to it being completely shady.

 

At best this is an attempt to trick a gullible freelancer with the promise of easy money for little work (10-12 hours a day at $150/hour? There are long-time lawyers who do more and make less). At worst, as Abinadab pointed out, it could very well be a money laundering scheme.

 

Either way, it sets off all kinds of alarm bells. Without looking at the correspondence directly, I can't point to anything concrete, but I'm 100% sure it's nothing good for Karsten, and he should avoid it like the plague.

Thanks for more information, Michael!

As I have noted previously, this has already been shared to the team for their review. And they will take the actions as they find necessary. I have also shared this thread with them for reference, so that your inputs can be considered. 


~ Avery
Upwork
petra_r
Community Member


Avery O wrote:


I have reviewed the messages exchanged between the OP and the Client, and at this time, I do not see enough evidence for the job post and the client to be actioned on.


You have got to be joking.

aocumen
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Petra, 


While I am not trained to review scams, and identify job posts as scams, I always make sure to go by other users' recommendations, and the help of the other teams to revie and identify these reports, which is why I had sent to it to the team after Abinadab shared his inputs, and after Miriam clarified the OP's position. 

There are still a lot of work that needs to be done in terms of identifying red flags, and scams on job posts, and messages, and I did learn something from Miriam and Abinadab's input. 

Thank you for the flag!


~ Avery
Upwork


Avery O wrote:

Hi Petra, 


While I am not trained to review scams, and identify job posts as scams, 


Since they are on the frontline, I think Upwork should provide community moderators with some training to help them identify potential scams. This so they can escalate suspicious activities they see during their shifts. I'm sure they are already doing this, but the present example illustrates how they can miss things.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

While dropshipping has been accepted as a form of marketing in the B&M world, it is a dodgy practice and no  freelancer (however experienced) should agree to do this via this sort of platform. 

 

I am surprised Upwork allows it. 

Just to clarify something:

 

Dropshipping is not the same thing as money laundering.

 

There are many legitimate Upwork jobs which involve dropshipping, including projects working with large online retailers such as Amazom.com.

 

Many retail websites use dropshipping, including sites you have ordered products from.

 

But there ARE scams which involve dropshipping.

 


Preston H wrote:

 

Dropshipping is not the same thing as money laundering.

 


The (now edited) details made it 100% certain that it was a scam.

It wasn't money laundering.

 

It was the old trick where the freelancer is supposed to sell stuff from their own account, and pass 50% of the funds on to the scammer. (Drop shippers never earn 50% of the item value.)

A little while later, after a lot of high-value goods have been sold at seemingly bargain prices, the buyers get back to our hapless freelancer to report that they never received their goods. The freelancer is liable for all the money.

 

They use very high-value articles at seemingly bargain prices.

 

 

petra_r
Community Member

Upwork, All the very best of luck collecting the payment for all the hours from all the freelancers logging all that time at $ 150 an hour next Monday...

 

And I hope all those freelancers know that even if they correctly log time at $ 150 an, Upwork will not pay them $ 150 an hour under the payment protection if when it all goes south, which of course it will.

 

Someone in trust and safety wants to wakey wakey. Pronto.

 

Member since yesterday. Hired 6+ freelancers at several to many times ($ 150 an hour to an $ 8.50 an hour data entry kid??) their usual rates... on a Monday, asking for 10-12 hours a day to be logged straight away and every day...

 

lysis10
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

 

 

Someone in trust and safety wants to wakey wakey. Pronto.

 


lol funny cuz true. I hope we get to see the beautiful fallout when the freelancers come here to say they didn't get paid and on top of that, their ebay accounts got killed along with the negative balance in their PayPal accounts. lol


Petra R wrote:

 

And I hope all those freelancers know that even if they correctly log time at $ 150 an, Upwork will not pay them $ 150 an hour under the payment protection if when it all goes south, which of course it will.


If the time is correctly logged and the payment method is verified, won't Upwork have to pay up?

 

Maybe we're getting some insight into why they aren't turning a profit yet.


Christine A wrote:


If the time is correctly logged and the payment method is verified, won't Upwork have to pay up?

 

Maybe we're getting some insight into why they aren't turning a profit yet.


Nah, the freelancers stupid enough to do this are all $10/hour people.


Jennifer M wrote:

Christine A wrote:


If the time is correctly logged and the payment method is verified, won't Upwork have to pay up?

 

Maybe we're getting some insight into why they aren't turning a profit yet.


Nah, the freelancers stupid enough to do this are all $10/hour people.


Even six freelancers working at $10 logging 10-12 hours a day is going to add up pretty quickly.


Christine A wrote:

Petra R wrote:

 

And I hope all those freelancers know that even if they correctly log time at $ 150 an, Upwork will not pay them $ 150 an hour under the payment protection if when it all goes south, which of course it will.


If the time is correctly logged and the payment method is verified, won't Upwork have to pay up?

 

Maybe we're getting some insight into why they aren't turning a profit yet.


Not at ridiculous rates. Only up to the freelancers' normal rate (what they have been charging, not profile rate) or normal marketplace rates for the kind of job, or nothing at all in cases of glaringly obvious fraud, which this is.

 

In Germany we have a saying "Gier frisst Hirn" - Greed eats brain

 

Here the OP was told by a bunch of people that it's dodgy, so what does he do? Correct. He accepts the contract.

 

I sometimes wonder why we bother trying to help people at all.

 

lysis10
Community Member


Petra R wrote:


Not at ridiculous rates. Only up to the freelancers' normal rate (what they have been charging, not profile rate) or normal marketplace rates for the kind of job, or nothing at all in cases of glaringly obvious fraud, which this is.

 

In Germany we have a saying "Gier frisst Hirn" - Greed eats brain

 

Here the OP was told by a bunch of people that it's dodgy, so what does he do? Correct. He accepts the contract.

 

I sometimes wonder why we bother trying to help people at all.

 


lol of course he did. 

**Edited for community guidelines**

 

I am pretty stoked to see the crying that he didn't get paid and Upwork didn't honor the payment protection. 

I'm just shaking my head at the complete stupidity of it all ....


Jennifer M wrote:

I am pretty stoked to see the crying that he didn't get paid and Upwork didn't honor the payment protection. 


He'll have a fair case for crying about not getting paid, though, since he did come in here looking for guidance, the mod didn't discourage him, people flagged the project, and Upwork didn't shut it down. 

 


Christine A wrote:


He'll have a fair case for crying about not getting paid, though, since he did come in here looking for guidance, the mod didn't discourage him, people flagged the project, and Upwork didn't shut it down. 

 


True true. The dramz will be glorious.


Christine A wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

I am pretty stoked to see the crying that he didn't get paid and Upwork didn't honor the payment protection. 


He'll have a fair case for crying about not getting paid, though, since he did come in here looking for guidance, the mod didn't discourage him, people flagged the project, and Upwork didn't shut it down. 

 


___________________________

 

Christine, I agree, but when an FL get this sort of invitation, or sees this sort of job post, surely it is worth doing a little duedil before applying for a job of this sort? Freelancers must really take some responsibility for their own business model.   

 

On the other hand, Upwork seems to be on some kind of arguable financial high and is not seeing the wood for the trees. In the last few weeks (months?), the laxity of Upwork's ToS concerning various violations such as Amazon reviews, academic cheating, fake profiles (such as the rash of voice-over profiles with fake credentials), and now dropshipping, is quite breathtaking.    

re: "the laxity of Upwork's ToS concerning various violations such as Amazon reviews, academic cheating, fake profiles"

 

Do you have concerns about Upwork's ToS?


Or are your concerns about how quickly and thoroughly Upwork enforces ToS stipulations?

 

Real question. I'm not trying to make any kind of point or argue with you.

 

I'm not seeing any way in which Upwork's written ToS is deficient in these areas (Amazon reviews, academic cheating, fake profiles).


Preston H wrote:

re: "the laxity of Upwork's ToS concerning various violations such as Amazon reviews, academic cheating, fake profiles"

 

Do you have concerns about Upwork's ToS?


Or about how quickly and thoroughly Upwork enforces ToS stipulations.

 

Real question. I'm not trying to make any kind of point or argue with you.

 

I'm not seeing any way in which Upwork's written ToS is deficient in these areas (Amazon reviews, academic cheating, fake profiles).


_________________________

 

That's OK Preston. Upwork would agree with you. But lots of people believe that climate change is not real, or that Earth is flat  - to each their  own ... 


Preston H wrote:

re: "the laxity of Upwork's ToS concerning various violations such as Amazon reviews, academic cheating, fake profiles"

 

Do you have concerns about Upwork's ToS?

 


No. She has concerns with how Upwork does or does not enforce their terms of service.

 


Preston H wrote:

I'm not seeing any way in which Upwork's written ToS is deficient in these areas (Amazon reviews, academic cheating, fake profiles).


Seriously?**Edited for Community Guidelines**


Nichola L wrote:

fake profiles (such as the rash of voice-over profiles with fake credentials)...


That particular one annoys the **** out of me, for obvious reasons. What I don't understand, though, is how they think that will actually work. You can fake a profile, but you can't fake decent equipment or ability. 

 

"But at the length truth will out." Except in these cases, it will be instant.

re: "Upwork would agree with you."

 

I understand that Upwork is satisfied with its own ToS.

 

I was wondering what you (or others) think. You referred to Upwork's ToS, saying that the laxity of Upwork's ToS is breathtaking. I was wondering if you meant that literally, or if you were critiquing how the ToS is enforced.

 

For example, is there something in Upwork's ToS that you disagree with, in terms of prohibiting academic fraud or prohibiting violating Amazon.com's ToS?

 

https://www.upwork.com/legal#permittedsite

The following are examples of uses that are prohibited on the Site or when using the Site Services:

Seeking, offering, promoting, or endorsing and services, content, or activities that:
...would violate (a) Upworkโ€™s Terms of Service, (b) the terms of service of another website or any similar contractual obligations, or (c) the academic policies of any educational institution;


Preston H wrote:

re: "Upwork would agree with you."

 

I understand that Upwork is satisfied with its own ToS.

 

I was wondering what you (or others) think. You referred to Upwork's ToS, saying that the laxity of Upwork's ToS is breathtaking. I was wondering if you meant that literally, or if you were critiquing how the ToS is enforced.

 

For example, is there something in Upwork's ToS that you disagree with, in terms of prohibiting academic fraud or prohibiting violating Amazon.com's ToS?

 

https://www.upwork.com/legal#permittedsite

The following are examples of uses that are prohibited on the Site or when using the Site Services:

Seeking, offering, promoting, or endorsing and services, content, or activities that:
...would violate (a) Upworkโ€™s Terms of Service, (b) the terms of service of another website or any similar contractual obligations, or (c) the academic policies of any educational institution;


_____________________

My point is that what is written in the ToS is sometimes entirely ignored in reality. So do stop being so disingenuous. It does not suit you. 

re: "My point is that what is written in the ToS is sometimes entirely ignored in reality"

 

Thank you for clarifying what you meant.

I agree with you.

 

I was not being disingenuous.

 

It is certainly possible for someone to disagree with the ToS. But clearly it is not the ToS itself that you are criticizing.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

All,

 

A few posts on this thread have been edited or removed as they were against the Community Guidelines and the thread has been closed from further replies. Please, avoid making personal attacks when posting in the Community.

 

I would also like to reiterate that the job, the client's account and the concerns many of you had shared have already been forwarded to the team for a review. We appreciate your input and help!

~ Valeria
Upwork
aocumen
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi everyone, 

I am coming back here to confirm that actions have been taken against the client's account. 

 

Thank you!


~ Avery
Upwork
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