๐Ÿˆ Community
pixelpixie
Member

WARNING - Threads being buried to hide Upwork Policy flaws

Just wanted to tell all of the freelancers in this forum to be careful of what you post because if you post a new thread on something that sucks on Upwork (ei Upwork policies hurting freelancers) they will bury it at the end of a related already established thread so no one will ever see it.  That's why when you run a search on a particular issue you find only a few threads, making you feel like you could be the only one with the problem.

 

I'm sure it will only be a few minutes before this message is buried at the end of a thread with over one hundred pages.

 

Upwork - leave new messages as stand alones as other forums do.  This will not only help the poster get answers but help others with the same issues!  Moving messages to the end of LONG threads will only make it look like you're trying to sweep a problem under the rug so no one else will see it!

37 REPLIES 37
katrinabeaver
Member

They're not trying to hide anything. It's just that your question/comment had to do with JSS. If you will read that long thread there are many people saying how unfair it is. So they're not tryng to hide your comment in any way, this is how they keep the forum cleaned up of the same questions asked over and over again.  

 

Same thing with the profile review thread that's hundreds of pages long. 

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

Lara, you might want to ponder these portions of the Upwork Community Gudelines

(https://community.upwork.com/t5/Community-Basics/Upwork-Community-Guidelines/m-p/259905#U259905)

 

The following are violations that may result in immediate post removal, warning, board sanction and/or suspension from the site:

 

  • Posting deliberately disruptive and negative statements about Upwork, Elance, or oDesk.
  • Posting content determined to be inappropriate, overly negative, in poor taste, or otherwise contrary to the purposes of this forum, in the sole discretion of Upwork

FYI, I've personally experienced post removal a few times, so consider having a post relocated to be a lesser sanction, if you disagree with the rationale that it's done to prevent excessive duplication of topics. 

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
tlsanders
Member

You must be fairly new here. Upwork has allowed extremely negative threads of thousands of posts to continue, even participating in the discussion and never removing negative comments so long as they complied with TOS. However, the policy has always been that if a thread duplicates an existing topic, it is consolidated. This doesn't, of course, hide the threads, since it is the most recent activity on a thread that brings it to the top of the list and not its start date.

goran0607
Member

I think you are right, I've been told by Upwork that freelancers prefer waiting 12 days for payment after working weeks ends. Yes I am sure that everybody loves payment delays. Right now I earned for two weeks and on wednesday(feb 22.) I'll get paid  for week  ( feb 5. to feb 11). It's kind of delay for each payment which makes regular income lower than actually is. I feel like kind of manipulated by Upwork and it's like I don't earn much as I work. And I am sure there are many people thinking this way. 


@Goran B wrote:

I think you are right, I've been told by Upwork that freelancers prefer waiting 12 days for payment after working weeks ends. Yes I am sure that everybody loves payment delays. Right now I earned for two weeks and on wednesday(feb 22.) I'll get paid  for week  ( feb 5. to feb 11). It's kind of delay for each payment which makes regular income lower than actually is. I feel like kind of manipulated by Upwork and it's like I don't earn much as I work. And I am sure there are many people thinking this way. 


 There are, but it seems odd to me, since many B&M employers pay a week or even two weeks behind, and direct freelancing clients often take 30-45 days to pay. 

Are you serious? Not sure I got you. I want to point out that we are not payed by Upwork we are paid by our clients and Upwork should not feel daring enough to keep our earnings unavailable for that long. 


@Goran B wrote:

I think you are right, I've been told by Upwork that freelancers prefer waiting 12 days for payment after working weeks ends. Yes I am sure that everybody loves payment delays. Right now I earned for two weeks and on wednesday(feb 22.) I'll get paid  for week  ( feb 5. to feb 11). It's kind of delay for each payment which makes regular income lower than actually is. I feel like kind of manipulated by Upwork and it's like I don't earn much as I work. And I am sure there are many people thinking this way. 


I cannot believe that any person actually employed by Upwork said or wrote this. Working on weekends is entirely up to the freelancer. You  are not obliged to work on a weekend and whenever you work doesn't make much difference as to when you get paid.

 

If you are working on fixed-rate jobs, it can sometimes take considerably longer than 12 days to get paid, but this is how Upwork has set up its business, and has nothing to do with manipulating freelancers.

 

ETA: Tiffany you are right. One of my best non Upwork clients pays me exactly six weeks after I have completed the job. I just have to factor this in to my budget.


@Nichola L wrote:

@Goran B wrote:

 Right now I earned for two weeks and on wednesday(feb 22.) I'll get paid  for week  ( feb 5. to feb 11). It's kind of delay for each payment which makes regular income lower than actually is. I feel like kind of manipulated by Upwork and it's like I don't earn much as I work.


I cannot believe that any person actually employed by Upwork said or wrote this. Working on weekends is entirely up to the freelancer.


 He didn't say anything about working during the weekend.

 

Has was complaining about how long it takes to see the money after the work-week ends. ๐Ÿ˜‰

 

God knows why he thinks the money gets less if he waits a few days, maybe they have rampant inflation where he lives. My money is the same next Wednesday as it is today.....

Most of my Off Upwork clients are net 30 clients.  I do have one that's a net 60. 

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"

As I understand I am not emplyed by Upwork. You are giving yourself too much credit. I am employed by my clients and Upwork is one providing service to both parties and we are paying you for that service. But we are not paying you for keeping our income unavailable. 


@Goran B wrote:

As I understand I am not emplyed by Upwork.

 

That is obvious. She was saying that she did not believe that an Upwork employee had said what you claimed you had been told by Upwork.

 

You are giving yourself too much credit. I am employed by my clients

 

Technically, no. You are self-employed. Your clients are purchasing your services. 

 

Upwork is one providing service to both parties and we are paying you for that service. But we are not paying you for keeping our income unavailable. 

 

No. You are paying Upwork for connecting you with the client, securing payment for you, processing payment for you and providing a structure that ensures that payment gets to you. One of the reasons to use Upwork is that a lot of freelancers aren't very good at that sort of thing and tend not to get paid in a timely manner (or at all) outside platforms like this. 

 

If you're not one of those people and you find Upwork's system onerous, you are always free to find your own clients, work with them directly and hope that they pay you more quickly.


 

I can understand that waiting for money could be a problem if you live in Zimbabwe, where the current infltion rate cannot be calculated anymore. The last known rate was several billion percent, and the last issue of bank notes had 12 zeros, and an expiration date on them.

 

Are you from Zimbabwe? If you are, then Petra's comment about inflation would make alot of sense, as would your concern about waiting a week or so for your money.

I hope no one will mind if I go back to the original topic of this thread, where TIffany wrote, "Upwork has allowed extremely negative threads of thousands of posts to continue, even participating in the discussion and never removing negative comments so long as they complied with TOS"

 

On what basis do you make this categorical statement? An entire thread I had commented in several times was removed by the time I visited the forum this morning, and my comments did not violate TOS in any fashion I'm aware of, and no moderator took the time to PM and explain what violations I committed, so I would be able to avoid them in the future. As to the negativitiy of my comments, I only pointed out deficiencies in certain areas of the site in possibly sarcastic fashion.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

John your post may have been deleted, not because you had infringed any policy but because somebody else had, and if your post had been left intact, it may not have made sense out of context.

 

 

Nichola, that might have been the case, but there's no way of knowing. Regardless, as long as ToS contains a clause that justifies removal of comments on the basis of negativity, the burden of proof falls on whoever claims that Upwork never does so.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce


@John K wrote:

Nichola, that might have been the case, but there's no way of knowing. Regardless, as long as ToS contains a clause that justifies removal of comments on the basis of negativity, the burden of proof falls on whoever claims that Upwork never does so.


 Do they?

 

I'd be interested in the specific language of that clause, but I wasn't able to find it in the help materials associated with the forums.


@John K wrote:

Nichola, that might have been the case, but there's no way of knowing. Regardless, as long as ToS contains a clause that justifies removal of comments on the basis of negativity, the burden of proof falls on whoever claims that Upwork never does so.


It has happened to me. Sometimes I am warned (then I know I'm the culprit!) but sometimes not. Now you see it, now you don't. On occasion I regret that my (unsaved) immortal prose has disappeared forever - but it's only words . . . ๐Ÿ˜‰


@Nichola L wrote:

@John K wrote:

Nichola, that might have been the case, but there's no way of knowing. Regardless, as long as ToS contains a clause that justifies removal of comments on the basis of negativity, the burden of proof falls on whoever claims that Upwork never does so.


It has happened to me. Sometimes I am warned (then I know I'm the culprit!) but sometimes not. Now you see it, now you don't. On occasion I regret that my (unsaved) immortal prose has disappeared forever - but it's only words . . . ๐Ÿ˜‰


 Because your post was critical of an Upwork policy?

 

That's all I was referring to. I know that posts are routinely deleted because the moderators operate a bit like over-anxious kindergarten teachers, deleting anything that could possibly be construed as sort of a little bit offensive to someone else if you squint with one eye and read it upside down, or because a discussion evolved naturally into something mildly interesting rather than staying squeezed into a tiny, repetitive box. But, I have never seen a post removed because the poster criticized Upwork, complained about a policy, complained about customer service, etc.


@Tiffany S wrote:

@Nichola L wrote:

@John K wrote:

Nichola, that might have been the case, but there's no way of knowing. Regardless, as long as ToS contains a clause that justifies removal of comments on the basis of negativity, the burden of proof falls on whoever claims that Upwork never does so.


It has happened to me. Sometimes I am warned (then I know I'm the culprit!) but sometimes not. Now you see it, now you don't. On occasion I regret that my (unsaved) immortal prose has disappeared forever - but it's only words . . . ๐Ÿ˜‰


 Because your post was critical of an Upwork policy?

 

That's all I was referring to. I know that posts are routinely deleted because the moderators operate a bit like over-anxious kindergarten teachers, deleting anything that could possibly be construed as sort of a little bit offensive to someone else if you squint with one eye and read it upside down, or because a discussion evolved naturally into something mildly interesting rather than staying squeezed into a tiny, repetitive box. But, I have never seen a post removed because the poster criticized Upwork, complained about a policy, complained about customer service, etc.


 You are right. My infractions, and there have not been many (that is, warnings from mods), have been for breaking rules such as opening a new thread on one that has been closed by a mod - that sort of thing - not for criticism.


@John K wrote:

I hope no one will mind if I go back to the original topic of this thread, where TIffany wrote, "Upwork has allowed extremely negative threads of thousands of posts to continue, even participating in the discussion and never removing negative comments so long as they complied with TOS"

 

On what basis do you make this categorical statement? An entire thread I had commented in several times was removed by the time I visited the forum this morning, and my comments did not violate TOS in any fashion I'm aware of, and no moderator took the time to PM and explain what violations I committed, so I would be able to avoid them in the future. As to the negativitiy of my comments, I only pointed out deficiencies in certain areas of the site in possibly sarcastic fashion.


 John, I speaking specifically of criticisms of Upwork policies, customer service, etc. My "never" referred to the specific threads I was referencing having seen--clearly I do not know whether at some point in Upwork's history some negative comment somewhere might have been removed though it was not in violation of TOS. My point was that when there have been huge backlashes against Upwork actions, decisions, policies, etc., the standard practice has been to allow those conversations to flow, and to leave hundreds of extremely critical comments unmoderated.

TIffany, thank you for clarifying. I didn't realize you were referring to posts not being removed from specific threads.

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce


@John K wrote:

TIffany, thank you for clarifying. I didn't realize you were referring to posts not being removed from specific threads.


 That was undoubtedly my fault. If you can't count on clarity from a legal writer, we're all in trouble.

kochubei_valeria
Community Manager
Community Manager

Lara and others,

 

I encourage you to check Upwork Community Guidelines where we state that for the purpose of keeping productive, easy to use and professional environment, moderators can move, merge, close, and remove threads and individual replies that we deem to be inappropriate or disruptive to the Community. Often replies can be removed together with a post that was violating the Community Guidelines to avoid confusion. Due to the volume of users and posts in the Community, we don't always individually notify authors of each removed or moved post.

 

Thank you for your understanding.

~ Valeria
Upwork
gerrys
Member

7 hours later and I'm still seeing "it"....

 

(D**n  Web Browsers!  .. as in IE, FF, etc. of course)

The flaw is the people that cannot understand the CG so far. especially those who believes to have right to decide who must coment, If I get a job only then can comment. Gracious me. I also still can see it and coment with or withot job also. Gracious me again. 


@Carlos L wrote:

The flaw is the people that cannot understand the CG so far. especially those who believes to have right to decide who must coment, If I get a job only then can comment. Gracious me. I also still can see it and coment with or withot job also. Gracious me again. 


 I think really people are just wishing that your comments would sometimes be in some way at least distantly related to the topic of the thread or responsive to some other comment.

Dear Tiffany,

It is related to all: CG, flaws, inappropriate comments and so on. I feel sorry you actually cannot associate it at anything.  See the comment before the mine is almost the same as the mine, just to say something, of course not to taunt to anyone. It is for everybody and for nobody.

Gracious you ๐Ÿ™‚

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   โ€”William Ashbless

Thank but evidently it was a misunderstanding, I understood gracious as to laugh at. As is surely the dialect known by me it means just funny, Investigating more I found out it means other things also. Also the english is more suggestive in its etymology: dear meaning beloved, dearth meaning scanty. We want what we lack, interesting, in spanish is not it way for forming quite sugesstive words. Will investigate more.


@Carlos L wrote:

Thank but evidently it was a misunderstanding, I understood gracious as to laugh at. As is surely the dialect known by me it means just funny,


 Carlos --

 

"Gracious" may mean (or be closely related to the words) warm, kind, friendly, well-mannered, courteous, amiable, cordial, hospitable, and so on. "Gracious" has a decidedly positive "vibe." 

 

However, Carlos, I regret to inform you that there is absolutely no English dialect in which the word "gracious" means "to laugh at." First of all, "gracious" is not a verb. Second, "gracious simply doesn't mean "laugh" or any form of laughter, chuckling, snickering, joking, chortling, roaring, crowing, guffawing, hawing, heeing, tittering, giggling, breaking up, cackling, being in stitches, cachinnating (one of my favorite Latin-based words!), a-whoopin'-an'-a-hollerin', etc.  Nope. Sorry.  Just doesn't. (Nor does "gracious" mean "funny" in any sense of the word.)

 

Yes, I am sure of that.

 

Go ahead and argue with me, if you like.  (You probably will.)  I still know my English dialects, and the one to which you refer doesn't exist.

 

But thanks for participating in the Forum.


@Janean L wrote:

@Carlos L wrote:

Thank but evidently it was a misunderstanding, I understood gracious as to laugh at. As is surely the dialect known by me it means just funny,


 Carlos --

 

"Gracious" may mean (or be closely related to the words) warm, kind, friendly, well-mannered, courteous, amiable, cordial, hospitable, and so on. "Gracious" has a decidedly positive "vibe." 

 

However, Carlos, I regret to inform you that there is absolutely no English dialect in which the word "gracious" means "to laugh at." First of all, "gracious" is not a verb. Second, "gracious simply doesn't mean "laugh" or any form of laughter, chuckling, snickering, joking, chortling, roaring, crowing, guffawing, hawing, heeing, tittering, giggling, breaking up, cackling, being in stitches, cachinnating (one of my favorite Latin-based words!), a-whoopin'-an'-a-hollerin', etc.  Nope. Sorry.  Just doesn't. (Nor does "gracious" mean "funny" in any sense of the word.)

 

Yes, I am sure of that.

 

Go ahead and argue with me, if you like.  (You probably will.)  I still know my English dialects, and the one to which you refer doesn't exist.

 

But thanks for participating in the Forum.


 I suspect that Carlos was aiming for the sarcastic usage of "good gracious" or even "Oh, gracious me!" that is intended to convey that whatever the other person is raising is in fact not so significant, shocking, etc. as is being suggested.

Tiffany,

you are right for the first time: I read it in english literature, obviously is that meaning.


@Carlos L wrote:

Tiffany,

you are right for the first time: I read it in english literature, obviously is that meaning.


 Carlos, this made me laugh out loud. I have had a surprisingly successful career for a person who was right only one time, at the age of 50!

Janean,

Just other misunderstanding, when I said: my dialect. I meant my spanish dialect, it is gracioso, meaning for funny. But furthermore I see the connections already. Appreciate your comment.

tillymonster
Member

Oh wow... so that's where my post went... it got buried. Time to move on from Upwork! 


@Tilly P wrote:

Oh wow... so that's where my post went... it got buried. Time to move on from Upwork! 


 Probably. If your focus is on feeling slighted because the forum rules that have been in place for years are applied to you just like everyone else, you probably won't do well here.


@Tilly P wrote:

Oh wow... so that's where my post went... it got buried. Time to move on from Upwork! 


Threads or individual posts do not get buried by Upwork.

 

Some posts or threads get โ€œmoderatedโ€ (for good reasons) as Valeria has clearly explained.

"Certa bonum certamen"