What I will lose on losing the dispute made by client over an hourly job for a refund?

[syedhassankazmi]

How many hours I will secure/release on losing/winning the dispute made by the client over an hourly job?

I am working with a client for 9+ months now. My client remained active for approx. 5 months and then suddenly disappeared. I tried to contact this client in many ways but no answer.

Afterward, I asked an Upwork agent to contact this client. The client showed up this morning and asked for a refund of the previous 2 months work. 

The client said "I didn't ask you to keep continue" but my client also didn't ask me to stop he just disappeared.

I was doing the same work every week for 9+ months and it was my routine. Also, I am adding the time manually and I'm regretting that. 

I just want to ask that what should I do?

Should I refund the previous eight-week worth of money or give nothing and let this client submit a dispute and lose everything/nothing that I earned from the first day.

I am just confused because it never happened to me before and I never gave a single chance to any of my other clients to be mad at me. I also don't want this client to take advantage of my 100% JSS. 

[petra_r · Accepted solution]

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Syed Hassan S wrote:

Also, I am adding the time manually and I'm regretting that. 

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You will lose all hours that can be disputed. The normal period that can be disputed is the previous week, but Upwork reserves the right to examine your work diary for the 30 days prior to the dispute.

So you "could" lose 30 days worth of hours because manual time is not protected.

I am a bit puzzled why you kept logging manual time for 4 months after the client stopped communicating and when they didn't even respond to Upwork...

[syedhassankazmi]

Thanks for your exceptional response, Petra!

My client was not that responsive either. So, I did not feel my client's disappearance for the first few months. Furthermore, it was a straight day-to-day job doesn't even contain any kind of my client's involvement. 

Please tell me if I'm wrong. According to you, I will only lose the money that I earned in the previous 30 days through this particular job, right?

[petra_r]

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Syed Hassan S wrote:

Please tell me if I'm wrong. According to you, I will only lose the money that I earned in the previous 30 days through this particular job, right?

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Normally, unless Upwork find some fraud or similar. - Last week's hours at best, up to the last 30 days at worst.

[syedhassankazmi]

Thanks a lot, Petra!

You helped me a lot. I hope it will not come to that but we have to be prepared for every possible case scenario. 

[prestonhunter]

Obviously the client was unprofessional and immoral when he hired you to do work, and then tried to avoid paying you for the work that you did.

But as Petra pointed out, clients CAN dispute manually logged time.

You say that you regret using manual time. You made a tactical mistake.

Can I assume based on your statement, that there was no technical reason you you had to use manual time? You were doing your work on a computer and you could have run the time-tracker, but you chose not to?

[syedhassankazmi]

It's great to have you, Mr. Preston!

The reason behind my manual time logging is because my client is giving me the money to reach a specific goal per week, and after a short period, I became much familiar with the task and can perform it within 15 minutes. 

So with manual logging, I can save 45 minutes, and my client doesn't have any issues. I also never imagined that anything like this could ever happen to me.

Like Mikko R. said about the Coconuts. I don't want to drop any, so  I must remain cautious about every step.

Mr. Preston, I also don't care about the money, but I am concerned about my reputation, and I also want to embrace the truth and that's why I will not let my client do this to me. It will be very nice of you if you can give me useful advice.

[petra_r]

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Syed Hassan S wrote:

The reason behind my manual time logging is because my client is giving me the money to reach a specific goal per week, and after a short period, I became much familiar with the task and can perform it within 15 minutes. 

So with manual logging, I can save 45 minutes, and my client doesn't have any issues.

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With hourly contracts, you are paid for the time you work. Does the client KNOW that you're billing an hour for 15 minute work?

If you charge the client an hour and only work 15 minutes, that is actually fraud.

[syedhassankazmi]

Yes, Petra!

My client knows that.

My client limited the work to 5 hours per week so no matter how much time it took me to achieve the goal, it only billed 5 hours. As I said before, My client pays me to achieve a specific goal within a week. No matter if it took me 15 minutes or 8 hours. Once I achieve that goal every week, I am doing the 5-hour worth of activity.

[prestonhunter]

That is not how Upwork intends for hourly contacts to be used.

The appropriate way to set up this type of arrangement would have been for the client to set up an hourly contract with zero hours allowed, and an automatic weekly payment.

Alternatively, a fixed-piece contract could have been used.

I want the freelancer to be paid for his work based on the agreement he had with the client.

But for future reference... it is safer for both client and freelancer to use the tools as intended.

[syedhassankazmi]

It was my first job ever, Mr. Preston!

I don't have a single clue about anything back then. That's correct because my client asked me to collect 42 leads per week for -$ per lead. At first, It even took me 8 to 10 hours to complete the task but after a proper experience, I was able to collect 42 leads within 1-2 hours.

I know that my job doesn't have to do anything with hourly work because my client was paying me based on my leads collected.

I also want to mention that I sometimes collected 2-3 weeks' worth of leads in a single week and send them to my client and it was still ok. My client gave me this freedom. 

[prestonhunter]

Syed Hassan:

I appreciate the way you have provided clear explanations about your situation.

Nobody knows everything about how to use Upwork when they first start out.

I'm glad that you have been so open to learning more about the tools.

Ultimately, if I am a client, and if I put my credit card in the Upwork system and hire freelancers, then I should be responsible for monitoring the work and the billing. If I ask a freelancer to do work for me on an ongoing basis, then I should expect that a freelancer will do just that. If I want a freelancer to stop working on my behalf, then I should ask him to stop.

[syedhassankazmi]

Thanks a lot, Mr. Preston!

You helped me a lot. I once again detail reading the Upwork ToS to see if there's anything I missed.

Thanks again, Love you!

[aamirh32]

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Syed Hassan S wrote:

Thanks a lot, Mr. Preston!

You helped me a lot. I once again detail reading the Upwork ToS to see if there's anything I missed.

Thanks again, Love you!

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Hi Hassan bro, did your issue resolved? I am also stuck in the same kind of situation. I didn't log any manual time but rather tracked hours with the Upwork tracker but when he came back, he started calling me a fraudster and claiming a full refund. I provided all the work and told him that I didn't charge him all at once, it was he who disappeared and never asked me to stop working on an ongoing project but he initiated a full refund request. 
May I know what thing worked for you? If you refunded him, how many weeks' hours did you refund him?
I'd love to hear from Petra too if she would respond to me. 
Thanks,

[petra_r]

Really all that matters is whether your hours were tracked correctly, using the tracker, with meaningful work memos, good activity levels and showing you working on the client's project.

Were they?

If yes, you are protected.

[syedhassankazmi]

That was a lesson for me and it cost me 4 weeks of hard work.