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ailcua
Community Member

What Is Fair?

Hi,

I have a client who wants a refund on all the work I did for her which is about a month. She said that she did not assigned me the task but I got email notifications about it with instructions on my email. I told her that she approved the payment for each week and Upwork always gives clients a week to review everything before approving any payment. So if she approved it then it means that I’m supposed to do it right? Now she said I’m not supposed to do it and wants a full refund right away. I apologized to her and offered to pay back each week since I already used what I’ve earned on my mom’s funeral and the payment was every week as well. I even offered to provide services for her for free just to be fair if I really did something wrong and if there’s a miscommunication. However she said that if I did not give everything back she’ll report me and give a one star rating even after I worked and researched hard on the task she won’t consider it. Any opinions about this? What’s fair and what’s not? Thank you so much for anyone who will answer. Also what protection do we freelancers have from clients like these? Or are we always the one taking the bad stuff even if there’s also a mistake on the part of the client? thanks again
ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Aileen:

 

This client is being a bully and a bad person, in addition to clearly violating Upwork TOS. I am sorry that you are facing this situation and I really hope Upwork will intervene on your behalf.

 

The fact that this client either:

- is trying to get free work from you

or

- has no idea how to use Upwork properly 

 

...should not become your problem.

View solution in original post

17 REPLIES 17
a_lipsey
Community Member

Threatening to leave you a bad review in return for a refund is against TOS. Report her and show the evidence she has said this. 

 

Let her dispute the payment. If you were on an hourly contract, kept meaningful memos, and have proof of her emails assigning the work, then you are covered. Do not work for free and do not issue a refund.  

 

How much money are we talking about? If you go to a dispute, you can hopefully come to an amicable solution or possibly she'll back off. Since she's threatened you  and made a TOS violation, it's likely she could be suspended and then it's  a moot question. Report her and go through the legitimate steps,  I would not issue a refund, and I would tell her to open up an official dispute. 

 

Also flagging for a moderator. 

ailcua
Community Member

Thank you so much for your response and help. Here are the words of the
client

**edited for Community Guidelines**

But upon looking at the email of the task it was for new hire and I’m the
new hire and it’s complete with instructions and links.

Aileen:

 

This client is being a bully and a bad person, in addition to clearly violating Upwork TOS. I am sorry that you are facing this situation and I really hope Upwork will intervene on your behalf.

 

The fact that this client either:

- is trying to get free work from you

or

- has no idea how to use Upwork properly 

 

...should not become your problem.

a_lipsey
Community Member


Aileen C wrote:
Thank you so much for your response and help. Here are the words of the
client

We are giving a 1-star review and reporting to Upwork.
All refunds have been requested. If we do not receive the refunds for the
work we did not assign to you, we will leave a negative review and involve
Upwork.

But upon looking at the email of the task it was for new hire and I’m the
new hire and it’s complete with instructions and links.

Doesn't matter if she sent you the wrong email. She had time to dispute your hours and didn't. She's just trying to get free work out of you by threatening you. Stand your ground. 

ailcua
Community Member

Thank you for your response as well
ailcua
Community Member

based on my understanding the client wants a refund outside of upwork and if i don't give it within a week she'll then involve upwork...correct me if i'm wrong though...and thank you everyone for all the help

petra_r
Community Member


Aileen C wrote:

based on my understanding the client wants a refund outside of upwork and if i don't give it within a week she'll then involve upwork...correct me if i'm wrong though...and thank you everyone for all the help


That would be a violation of the terms of service... it actually also begins to sound like potentially a scam.

Personally, I would get proactive and involve Upwork right away.

 

Were your working hours logged properly (tracked, with meaningful memos and so on?)

 

Also, you are top rated, so unless you have used your top rated feedback removal perk in the last 3 months and 10 contracts, you can remove any bad feedback that client would give you anyway 😉

 

 

ailcua
Community Member

Hi,

Yes I am. Although I do have an hour or two of manual because I did the
research and entry using my mobile when my laptop is down.

Thanks for the help.
petra_r
Community Member

It actually does not matter what is fair and what isn't. It also doesn't matter if the client is a bad person or a saint.

 

All that matters is what the client can actually DO about it and what you can do about it.

The client can request mediation for the last 30 days prior to the day she goes to Upwork.

If it is an hourly contract, all Upwork will look at is the following:

 

  • were the hours logged properly (using the tracker, not manual time)
  • were there meaningful memos on the screenshots
  • was there adequate activity
  • do the screenshots show you working on the client's task.

Demanding a refund by threatening bad feedback is actually a violation of Upwork's terms of service, so I'd at this point get pro-active and report the client.

 

I'd certainly NOT refund, neither in installments nor all at once.

 

 

ailcua
Community Member

Thank you so much
AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Aileen, 

I'm sorry for the delay as I had to locate the contract, and conversation that you are referring to. It appears that this issue stemmed from miscommunication between you and your client, and I would like to recommend that if you are not clear on what part of the project you are meant to complete, it would be best to communicate further with the client so that disagreements like this can be avoided. 

I will go ahead and check this with the team further, and I'll come back here once I have more information.


~ Avery
Upwork
petra_r
Community Member


Avery O wrote:

I would like to recommend that if you are not clear on what part of the project you are meant to complete, it would be best to communicate further with the client so that disagreements like this can be avoided.


Bit late for that now, wouldn't you say?

 

If the client has asked for money to be refunded outside of Upwork = Policy violation

If the client has threatened 1 star feedback if not refunded (outside the platform) = Policy violation.

AveryO
Community Manager
Community Manager

Petra, 

I understand where you are coming from. However, I have based my reply on what the OP has shared on the thread, and so that other (silent) users who are reading this thread can learn from the experience. 

I am unable to share more information about this case as per our privacy policy, but I would like to thank you for pointing out the policy violations that may have stemmed from this case. I will take note of this when escalating this case to the team. 


~ Avery
Upwork
petra_r
Community Member


Avery O wrote:

t I would like to thank you for pointing out the policy violations that may have stemmed from this case. I will take note of this when escalating this case to the team. 


Thank you 🙂

ailcua
Community Member

Hi,

Yup I agreed to that. We were communicating via email as well about the
issue. I already apologized to the client for any miscommunication and
misunderstanding on the task from the get-go. The task was placed under a
certain category for new hire which is where I'm under and I'm the new
hire. I understood it as a general task since I received a notification
about the task with files attached and instructions. I am willing to give a
refund and even provide service without pay to compromise with the
inconvenience on her part. I mean things can be resolved with proper
communication and without threats or bullying in my opinion.
VladimirG
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Aileen,

 

I'm sorry about the issue that arose with your client on this contract. I won't be able to advise on any action you should take but would like to outline the options you have. In case the client is looking for a refund of hours logged solely working on a task they mentioned wasn't requested of you, and you agree with this request, you can proceed with refunding the hours. If you disagree and confirm you were asked to complete the task by the client or someone from their team, you can decline and in case the client files a dispute, have our dispute team review the task you were asked to complete and hours you logged.

 

If you were requested to complete the task by the client and logged hours in line with the requirements listed here, you're covered by Hourly Payment Protection.

 

Please send me a private message by clicking on my name in case the client is asking you to refund the hours outside the task in question and also for the refund to be processed off-Upwork, so I could check and advise you accordingly. 

~ Vladimir
Upwork
ailcua
Community Member

Hi thank you. My client is asking for a refund of everything including those that I've worked for the past month I think. I told my client that Upwork will give her enough time to review the work I did before approving the payment and if she approved it then doesn't that mean that I am doing the right task? As far as I know Upwork will notify the client about the weekly log in review similar to what freelancers get on their emails. And the file was a shared one so any changes made there is visible to my client and her team. I'm just wondering why it took my client a month before calling me out about it since Upwork always sends reminders and notifications about weekly log ins.

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