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What exactly is private feedback?

christieinitaly
Active Member
Christie Ann B Member Since: Jun 3, 2016
21 of 39

Thanks for the info and compliment. I feel sure because I have not yet made it to the six-month mark (so that piece is not included), all public feedback is 5-star, and all contracts have been closed successfully by the client in a timely manner. But! Right now I am in the middle of a nightmare situation with a scam artist (my bad for not realizing before I accepted the job) and I am worried about the outcome. Thus far it has not been resolved by Upwork support. Certainly the possibility of such things happening from time to time is enough to deal with, being penalized for a 7, 8 or 9 in private feedback is over the top... 

christieinitaly
Active Member
Christie Ann B Member Since: Jun 3, 2016
22 of 39

Rene, as I mentioned, I considered every option and am sure the drop in score is directly related to this metric. 

goldenseal
Community Leader
Joshua T Member Since: Apr 18, 2016
23 of 39

The lengths some of you go to defend Upworks half-baked policies astounds me.

 

Really, Rene? It's all about what we, the freelancer did wrong? How about in my case, when the client was "moving fast" (his words when he apologized profusely) and clicked some random number, dropping my JSS 9 points? How would you advise I "do some constructive self-criticsm" in that situation? 

 

Face it. The system is garbage, and as others have pointed out, many clients WILL NOT give a 9 or 10, even if they are thoroughly satisfied with the end product. It's who they are. And in their mind, giving an 8 or even a 7 is a perfectly "good" rating. They have no idea that it does serious damage to someone's ability to get future work on this platform. 

tlsanders
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
24 of 39

@Joshua T wrote:

The lengths some of you go to defend Upworks half-baked policies astounds me.

 

Really, Rene? It's all about what we, the freelancer did wrong? How about in my case, when the client was "moving fast" (his words when he apologized profusely) and clicked some random number, dropping my JSS 9 points? How would you advise I "do some constructive self-criticsm" in that situation? 

 

Face it. The system is garbage, and as others have pointed out, many clients WILL NOT give a 9 or 10, even if they are thoroughly satisfied with the end product. It's who they are. And in their mind, giving an 8 or even a 7 is a perfectly "good" rating. They have no idea that it does serious damage to someone's ability to get future work on this platform. 


The problem is that it SHOULDN'T do damage. Saying there's an 80% likelihood that you'd recommend someone in the future is a positive rating, and the client should be able to leave that honest rating without doing harm. The key isn't to push clients to lie in private feedback the way social norms have pushed them to lie in star ratings, but to adopt a realistic view of what those numbers mean. 

christieinitaly
Active Member
Christie Ann B Member Since: Jun 3, 2016
25 of 39

Yes, that is exactly what I mean. A four percent drop seems pretty high given that I am sure it is due to this calculation, and also fairly sure that my clients would not have given me less than an 8 (considering the public feedback and my subjective evaluations of client relationships). --plus I am not sure what Rene is referring to; I am not suggesting tricking the system...

colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
26 of 39

I think one has to stop obsessing about it. I dropped from 100% to 92% a couple of weeks ago, and I know exactly why. I'm back at 100%, so I'm planning to close a couple of contracts, which will bring my score down again.

 

I agree with René, if the score goes too low, then it is time for a little self-analysis. To which I add an adopted Gallic shrug of the shoulders!

Smiley Wink

 

tsawicki
Ace Contributor
Tim S Member Since: Nov 13, 2015
27 of 39

I can confirm that private feedback can negatively effect the job success score.  I have even been told that it can be more of a contributing factor than public feedback.

 

I would love to help organize to effect changes to the job success score process.  Very few freelancers seem to agree that it is free of significant issues.

christieinitaly
Active Member
Christie Ann B Member Since: Jun 3, 2016
28 of 39

I think that would be great! Perhaps focusing on one metric would also help a petition succeed. I wouldn't doubt in the least that private feedback carries more weight, and I think that is totally unfair. As an adjunct professor, I know well how much weight anonymous evaluations carry, particularly the question asking how likely a student would be to recommend a professor on a scale from 1-10. Those evals have been criticized by nearly every professional in higher education, and I do not want to be subjected to the same thing on Upwork. When someone takes ownership of their feedback it should carry more weight than when they are being secretive (no better than cheap gossip). At the very least, a 7-8-9 score should not cause a significant drop in JSS. 

colettelewis
Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
29 of 39

@Christie Ann B wrote:

I think that would be great! Perhaps focusing on one metric would also help a petitioin succeed. I wouldn't doubt in the least that private feedback carries more weight, and I think that is totally unfair. As an adjunct professor, I know well how much weight anonymous evaluations carry, particularly the question asking how likely a student would be to reccomend a professor on a scale from 1-10. Those evals have been criticized by nearly every professional in higher education, and I do not want to be subjected to the same thing on Upwork. When someone takes ownership of their feedback it should carry more weight than when they are being secretive (no better than cheap gossip). At the very least, a 7-8-9 score should not cause a significant drop in JSS. 


The problem is, that we are not in a university setting. We are in a business setting. Whether you are a professor or not, does not have the slightest bearing on Upwork's business model (however one might disagree with it). The evaluations are not based on student performance but on the performance of already qualified people who are judged on their ability to contribute to the financial well-being of the company. 

 

 

christieinitaly
Active Member
Christie Ann B Member Since: Jun 3, 2016
30 of 39

 


The problem is, that we are not in a university setting. We are in a business setting. Whether you are a professor or not, does not have the slightest bearing on Upwork's business model (however one might disagree with it). The evaluations are not based on student performance but on the performance of already qualified people who are judged on their ability to contribute to the financial well-being of the company. 

 

 



 

I don't think the context matters here, it's the metric itself, which is used to assign a quality rating to a person (and fails). It's similar on Upwork and in the classroom (same question, same weight). There are many reasons why someone might click 7 or 8 rather than 10 (none of which are considered in the algorithm).

 

I just read a public feedback in which the client says that her private feedback may have negatively impacted the freelancer's score (she hurriedly clicked on anything just to get past the window and rehire the freelancer!). She said she was unable to change her private feedback, even after reaching out to Upwork, and practically begged for forgiveness for inadvertendly affecting the freelancer's score while insisting that clients realize his worth. How many other clients are doing the same thing?

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