What if clients get away after finish the pro...

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

Hi Upworkers.

Thanks for your hard work and support.

I have question of client actions.

For example, I have finished the project in a week and trakced the time over Upwork.

What if the client remove the payment after finish the project?

We all know that payment is available after 15 days but before 15 days, what happens if client remove his payment and I still have logged time from his contract?

Can I still get paid or suspended from you guys?

I need the answers seperately in both of logged time manually and via Upwork TimerTracker.

Right now, client insist me to use manual time over UpWork.

Thank you so much for take a time to look this post and expects any kind of answers from you guys.

Best Regards.

stencil_media · ‎09-04-2015

I'm relatively new to Upwork, so I'm not 100% sure of the answers to your questions, but this throws up a big red flag for me...

"Right now, client insist me to use manual time over UpWork."

If I'm not mistaken, you have to use the time tracker so you get paid automatically. Manual hours have to be manually approved, and as a result, can also be declined by the client. And if they do a runner then you probably won't be covered by the hourly gauranteee if you've not used the tracker.

Unless there's some valid circumstance (which would probably be rare), the only reason I can see that a client would insist that you don't use the time tracker, is if they don't want to pay you for all your work. I could be wrong... maybe I'm just being overly-suspicious. Like if I got in someone's car and they insisted I didn't wear my seatbelt... I'd be slightly suspicious.

"Welcome, humans. I'm ready for you!"
- Box, Logan's Run (1976)

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

Both manual time and tracked hours are billed and charged automatically, up to the weekly limit. Neither have to be approved. (Both can be disputed, but without a dispute within the5 day review period after the end of the work week they are considered approved!"

BUT

Manual time is NOT subject to the hourly payment guarantee.

This means should the client dispute the hours manual hours will be removed / reversed. The client wins a dispute over manual hours by default.

If the client fails to pay any time logged that does not qualify for the guarantee, such as manual time (!) - segments with low activity, time with insufficient or missing work memos, and time spent on non work related tasks will probably also be taken away.

If you do hourly work make sure you track your time, have proper memos, decent activity levels, and no non-work related screenshots.

That way your chances of winning a dispute are very high, and if the client fails to pay you are covered because Upwork will still pay you.

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

Thanks for your quick answers.

I really appreciate it.

But here is another question which i don't understand.

let's assume that I've used time track over upwork and finished the project in a week.

but the client removed the payment gateway from his account after.

I have still 7 days behind final payment.

Does it still mean that I can get paid even if client remove the payment from his account?

we all know that tracked time is just a virtual funds over Upwork until final payment which takes 15 days?

Also, when I use time track and clients doesn't make a dispute on me , just removed the payment gateway from his account?

I look forward your answers.

Thanks, Petra

Best Regards

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

@Pedro S wrote:

let's assume that I've used time track over upwork and finished the project in a week.

but the client removed the payment gateway from his account after.

Does it still mean that I can get paid even if client remove the payment from his account?

If the client has paid he can not "remove" the payment. (well, they can via a chargeback but that gets messy for the client too) but they CAN dispute. They also cannot remove their payment method, which is automatically charged on the Monday after the work week ends. However, clearly they can fail to pay by making sure there are no available funds on the payment method.

What happens in that case is that the client's account is (eventually) suspended. If Upwork are unable to collect the money you earned you will still get paid provided there is no dispute, provided that all hours are logged correctly (no manual time, sufficient memos, sufficient activities, all purely work related screenshots, and there is no sign of any "funny business" going on)

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

Thanks for your support.

so every monday, I get paid actually but if you guys failed to collect funds from his payment method, you guys suspend the contract and client's account?

tell me what happens this case.

let's assume that I've hired today which is friday.

I work over weekend and logged time 10 hrs manually.

and next monday, you guys collects funds actually from his account. right? answer this question if it's correct or not.

and what if you fail to collect funds from his payment gateway?

All this stuffs will be happened in 3 days. ( in this case)

Thanks.

noirre · ‎09-04-2015

The UpWork hourly protection is only in place when Time Tracker is used, the screenshots prove that freelancer has been working on the project, activity levels are decent and there are memos of what it is you were working on. Hourly protection does not include Manual time, so if the client rejects your logged in hours, they could get away with not paying you. So to me the client insisting on manual time sounds fishy.

Is the client new? Do you have messages here on UpWork where they want you to use manual time?

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

He has no feedback over upwork but he has verified payment.

What I seriously wanna know is that even if I work for a week, does it mean that you guys are billed from him actually?

or is it just virtual payment over Upwork ?

When do you guys billing from clients?

Thanks.

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

@Pedro S wrote:
1) He has no feedback over upwork but he has verified payment.

2) What I seriously wanna know is that even if I work for a week, does it mean that you guys are billed from him actually?

3) or is it just virtual payment over Upwork ?

4) When do you guys billing from clients?

Thanks.

1) OK. Are you hired? Have you worked? Did you use the tracker or manual time? How many hours?

2) Any hours you work this week gets billed and charged on Monday after 12 noon UTC

3) I have no idea what you mean

4) see 2

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

1) OK. Are you hired? Have you worked? Did you use the tracker or manual time? How many hours?
2) Any hours you work this week gets billed and charged on Monday after 12 noon UTC
3) I have no idea what you mean
4) see 2

1) not yet. I 'm collecting the information. I intend to use manual time.

2) Thanks for the answer.

3) I mean the funds in my account , is it actual funds or not?

4) Thanks.

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

1) not yet. I 'm collecting the information. I intend to use manual time.
2) Thanks for the answer.
3) I mean the funds in my account , is it actual funds or not?
4) Thanks.
1) WHY? If anything happens, (dispute or client fails to pay) you will NOT get paid.

3) It will not be actual funds until a) the client has paid and b) the review period is over and c) the security period is over. It will be actual funds (available to withdraw) on the Wednesday after the week folowing the week during which you did the work.

In other words: If you work over the weekend now, the time you spend working will be billed and charged to the client on Monday. IF that charge goes through, and the client does not dispute by Friday, you will be able to withdraw the funds on Wednesday the 16th. If you use manual time and something happens you get 0, nothing at all.

Please read this https://support.upwork.com/entries/23128372

If the client disputes, or does not pay, you will only get paid for properly logged hours. You will not get paid for any manual hours, at all, under any circumstances in those cases.

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

Pedro, you ARE properly hired, yes? (The contract is in your "my jobs" tab?)

What is the client's feedback history, both left feedback and received feedback, like?

How much have they spent?

Do NOT use manual time. I repeat: DO NOT! Use the tracker, put in detailed work memos... When did you start the contract? How many hours have you spent on this already?

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

what point do you guys bill from cilents?

1) every weekend?

2) every 15 days?

3) at the time of ending contracts?

Thanks.

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

Pedro,

Please answer my questions:

1) Are you hired

2) Have you used the tracker?

3) have you entered manual time?

4) How many hours (tracked and / or manual time)

Your profile shows no jobs in process so you didn't work previous to this week. This would indicate that the conntract, if there is one, started this week.

Clients are billed and charged for hourly contracts on the Monday after the work week ended, after 12 noon UTC. This means that client will be charged for any hours you logged this week on Monday. They then have until Friday midnight UTC to dispute. If they dispute, or fail to pay Upwork, you will lose any hours that were not logged according to the guarantee,

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

1) Are you hired

2) Have you used the tracker?

3) have you entered manual time?

4) How many hours (tracked and / or manual time)

__________________________

1) not yet. I'm collecting the information about the contract.

2) no

3) I'm going to use manual time and if everything is good, I'm going to start the work today.

4) 0 hrs.

sorry for keep asking this.

but what if he didn't make dispute on me and remove the payment gateway from his account , and I still have logged time ( which was added manually) from him?

Thank you so much , Petro.

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

__________________________

but what if he didn't make dispute on me and remove the payment gateway from his account , and I still have logged time ( which was added manually) from him?

Thank you so much , Petro.

If you used manual time and the client does not pay you will not get anything. You will not get paid.

Why, after everything you have been told, over, and over again, would you decide to use manual time?

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

Thank you so much, Petra.

Now, I'm clear about the manual time track.

This is my last question.

1) I used Upwork time track and logged time. (not manually)

2) client's account get suspended because of insufficient funds from his payment gateway.

or he removed this payment gate way from his account ( I' m not sure if it's possible or not)

3) I didn't get any disputes from him.

Can I still get paid after?

also , this case

after above 3 steps,

1) I used Upwork time track and logged time. (not manually)

2) he ended the contract as completed.

3) client's account get suspended because of insufficient funds from his payment gateway.

or he removed this payment gate way from his account ( I' m not sure if it's possible or not)

4) I didn't get any disputes from him.

Can I still get paid after?

Please, answer seperately.

Thanks, Petra

prestonhunter · ‎09-04-2015

Pedro,

Do you understand that we think you are behaving strangely and your client is behaving strangely as well?

If you are actually doing work on a computer, and not out photographing bridges or something, then you use the time tracker for an hourly contract. That is what normal Upwork contractors do.

That is what normal Upwork clients expect.

If a client is asking you to use manual time, then we assume he is planning to rip you off.

He can simply dispute those hours from your work diary and not pay for them. Then he has obtained your work for free and you will be paid nothing.

[I edited the paragraph above and replaced "delete" with "dispute," after Petra kindly pointed out that a client can not directly delete manual hours from a contractor's work diary, but CAN disput them and will win the dispute by default.]

But you ARE able to use manual time if the client allows it. That time would automatically be billed to the client and you will automatically be paid for time if the client doesn't block payment for any of that time.

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

@Preston H wrote:
Pedro,
1) Do you understand that we think you are behaving strangely and your client is behaving strangely as well?

2) He can simply delete those hours from your work diary and not pay for them.

1) My sentiments exactly

2) No, clients can NOT delete anything at all from a freelancer's work diary. The client will get charged for manual time the same as for logged time. They can then either a) dispute, and will win a dispute over manual time by default, or b) fail to pay, then Upwork will reverse the manual time. Clients can not touch a freelancer's work diary.

psteba · ‎09-04-2015

final question, Petra.

answer this case.

1) I've logged time mannually.

2) clients got suspended because of insufficient funds from his payment gateway

or he has removed payment gateway from his acccount.

3) but he didn't make any dispute on me.

What happens after 15 days?

Can I still get paid?

Thanks.

prestonhunter · ‎09-04-2015

Pedro,

If a client's account is suspended or if he doesn't have sufficient funds, Upwork still guarantees that you will be paid for all the hours you logged using the time-tracker if your work diaries are properly annotated and show real activity level.

Upwork does not guarantee payment for hours you logged as manual time.

You may read about Upwork Payment Protection here and here.

"Freelancers logging hourly time using the Upwork Team App are assured payment for hours worked... Please note that Upwork Hourly Protection doesn’t apply to bonuses, manual time, or fixed-price projects.

petra_r · ‎09-04-2015

@Pedro S wrote:

1) I've logged time mannually.
2) clients got suspended because of insufficient funds from his payment gateway
or he has removed payment gateway from his acccount.
3) but he didn't make any dispute on me.

Can I still get paid?

We have answered this in a dozen different ways, despite the fact you are refusing to explain why you would insist on manual time having had it explained in a dozen different ways why it is a bad idea......

The answer, as per the previous dozen answers from different people is

NO YOU WILL NOT GET PAID

setumonroe · ‎09-04-2015

Kudos to the 'helpers' in this thread. Patience goes a far way.

---- easy like Sunday morning ----

What if clients get away after finish the project? the project has been finished in a week.